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Author Topic: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)  (Read 2429 times)

starch

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Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« on: November 26, 2015, 10:06:32 PM »
Okay, first crazy idea (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18434.0) turns out would be an absolutely horrible idea. After the discussion on that thread, I go up to my wife and said: 'did you have any idea oleander was incredibly poisonous?'. And she says: 'yes, everyone knows that'.  ... I guess everyone except me. Well, this is a textbook example of why one should ask lots of questions!

So onto crazy idea v. 2.0. As stated in the link above, I have a location that has the following constraints and I would like to put a tree/plant there:

- There is an oleander between by back porch column and a block wall that surrounds my back yard (the trunk is actually two feet away from the column but roughly half of the oleander grew in behind the column). So any tree that I put in would have to occupy this space
- I went out and measured the gap and it is about 4 feet (I said about 3.5 in the last post)
- The back patio is also next to the plant. So it resides in an area between my block wall and back patio right next to the column at the corner of my back patio
- Because the block wall is about 6 ft high and my back patio overhang is about 10 ft high, the sky above is essentially a vertical space that is 4 ft wide. So it only gets about 2 hours of direct sunlight a day.
- However it does get a fair about of indirect sunlight. I have a 'rock mulch' back yard (gravel) and it is very light color. So there is diffuse reflected light off the gravel and the block wall (which faces east)

So given all of that, here is a list of criteria I have come up with for selecting a tree for this location

- Needs shallow / non-invasive root system (proximity to patio and block wall)
- Needs to fruit well in mostly shade with a small amount of direct light a day, but mostly indirect light
- Needs to be attractive (it is next to my back patio and we sit out there a lot)
- Needs to be self-pollinating (don't have room to put in two trees). However I could consider a multigraft as a way around this.

There are two trees that I have come up with that really fit this criteria: Jaboticaba and Carambola/Star Fruit

I already have a Sabara Jaboticaba, so I would really like to try something new. What do you think, would a Carambola do well in this location (keeping in mind that I would need to keep it pruned to 3-4 wide, almost like an espalier). I have looked at images and the leaves are pretty (the fruit of course is gorgeous) and the trunk looks like it has a beautiful peeling quality like a Crape Myrtle / Jaboticaba / Guava. So it would definitely be attractive.

Any better suggestions? Thanks!
- Mark

gunnar429

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 10:30:14 PM »
Fairchild Garden has an espalier line of starfruit--definitely possible.
~Jeff

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bsbullie

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2015, 07:53:21 AM »
I would wear gloves when excavating the oleander.

What are your minimum temps?  From what direction and how much wind does that area get?
- Rob

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2015, 08:13:30 AM »
I would wear gloves when excavating the oleander.

What are your minimum temps?  From what direction and how much wind does that area get?

Good call on the gloves.

Minimum temps are 27-28 F typically. However I am willing to cold protect like I do with my mangoes if that ends up being a deciding factor.

Wind is strange. In this spot it is kind of sheltered from the wind (which can be very bad here) most of the time. However when it really kicks up during dust storms the wind will just run down the corridor between my house and block wall.  So short answer is: Most of the time - wind protected. Occasionally during summer maybe 30-40 mph wind in this spot (if it was in an unsheltered spot in my yard it could see higher gusts during wind storms, 50-60 mph).
- Mark

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 08:13:51 AM »
Fairchild Garden has an espalier line of starfruit--definitely possible.

Cool, good to know!
- Mark

gunnar429

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 08:53:31 AM »
John Kohler from Growing your greens youtube channel visited Fairchild and you can see the espalier in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7wK5KSsX7Q
~Jeff

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treefrog

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2015, 10:13:34 AM »
coffea arabica  does well in limited light locations, makes a smallish bushy plant.  it will give you nice white flowers and coffee beans.  harvesting and processing can be tedious, but home grown coffee is a treat.  doesn't like cold, so may need protection.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 10:21:10 AM by treefrog »
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Luisport

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2015, 10:18:32 AM »
coffea arabica  does well in limited light locations, makes a smallish bushy plant.  it will give you nice white flowers and coffee beans.  harvesting and processing can be tedious, but home grown coffee is a treat.
And coffee can be grown in pots? Thank's!  :)

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2015, 10:25:21 AM »
John Kohler from Growing your greens youtube channel visited Fairchild and you can see the espalier in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7wK5KSsX7Q

That's a great video, thanks! The carambola is such a pretty tree and looks great on that trellis.
- Mark

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2015, 10:26:29 AM »
coffea arabica  does well in limited light locations, makes a smallish bushy plant.  it will give you nice white flowers and coffee beans.  harvesting and processing can be tedious, but home grown coffee is a treat.
And coffee can be grown in pots? Thank's!  :)

grown in pots?  probably.  certainly as an ornamental.  not sure if you can get a crop of beans, but it would be worth a try.  here the big box garden centers sell small containers with several (6? 8?) coffee seedlings as a houseplant.
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starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2015, 10:27:21 AM »
coffea arabica  does well in limited light locations, makes a smallish bushy plant.  it will give you nice white flowers and coffee beans.  harvesting and processing can be tedious, but home grown coffee is a treat.  doesn't like cold, so may need protection.

I do love coffee and considered planting one before (in a different location in my yard). But the reason I didn't was I read that they required really high humidity to grow and produce. Do you find that to be the case? We have super low humidity here in the desert most times, but especially in summer.
- Mark

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2015, 10:33:05 AM »
coffea arabica  does well in limited light locations, makes a smallish bushy plant.  it will give you nice white flowers and coffee beans.  harvesting and processing can be tedious, but home grown coffee is a treat.
And coffee can be grown in pots? Thank's!  :)

grown in pots?  probably.  certainly as an ornamental.  not sure if you can get a crop of beans, but it would be worth a try.  here the big box garden centers sell small containers with several (6? 8?) coffee seedlings as a houseplant.
I see, thank you!  :)

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2015, 12:09:29 PM »
Here are a few ideas that have been suggested so far:

- Jaboticaba (me) - But I already have one so I want to try something different
- Carambola (me)
- Miracle Fruit (Tropicdude) - But Adam raised concerns about it getting enough humidity (I live in the desert)
- Barbados Cherry (Rob)
- Coffee Arabica (treefrog) - But I wonder if it will grow well / produce due to the same low humidity concerns

Any other ideas?
- Mark

bsbullie

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2015, 12:30:05 PM »
I would be concerned about the winds and potential lower temps with the carambola.
- Rob

goosteen

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2015, 08:24:16 PM »
I would wear gloves when excavating the oleander.

What are your minimum temps?  From what direction and how much wind does that area get?

Also a dust mask it a good idea... they can cause problems if you breath too much of dust they put off..

I ripped out about 7 large Oleander's when I moved in to my property.  I took a long pull strap, wrapped it around base and yanked them out... if you can get a heavy vehicle close to it, that's the way to go.

Why would  someone keep poisonous plants when you can have edible plants. 

Tropicalnut

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2015, 03:26:40 PM »
How about a drarf Banana? The plants look great, they need some wind protection and they produce fruit. :)

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 07:23:56 AM »
I would be concerned about the winds and potential lower temps with the carambola.

I hear you about the winds. I have a lychee too, but I planted it in a really protected spot. This proposed (now ripped out) oleander location is in between sheltered and exposed
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 07:33:44 AM by starch »
- Mark

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 07:25:07 AM »
I would wear gloves when excavating the oleander.

What are your minimum temps?  From what direction and how much wind does that area get?

Also a dust mask it a good idea... they can cause problems if you breath too much of dust they put off..

I ripped out about 7 large Oleander's when I moved in to my property.  I took a long pull strap, wrapped it around base and yanked them out... if you can get a heavy vehicle close to it, that's the way to go.

Why would  someone keep poisonous plants when you can have edible plants.

Good idea. I got it all ripped on on Sunday and started prepping my planting hole.
- Mark

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 07:26:34 AM »
How about a drarf Banana? The plants look great, they need some wind protection and they produce fruit. :)

Good idea! I actually already have bananas (dwarf Namwah, Orinoco, raja puri and ice cream), but if I didn't this would be a good call. Thanks!
- Mark

starch

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 07:32:50 AM »
What do you think about this:

Cherry of the Rio Grande / Eugenia involucrata ?

It is similar to Rob's Barbados Cherry / Acerola suggestion. And should (by accounts) produce somewhat similar fruit. However the Cherry of the Rio Grande is much more cold tolerant than Barbados Cherry (I don't mind cold protecting, but not having to certainly is a bonus).

Adam has says can fruit in partial shade but will get lanky (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18462.msg230559#msg230559). However, like I point out above, once it grows to 6 ft it clears the block wall so the top of the canopy at that point gets nearly full sun.

The trunk and leaves look very pretty

Roots are unknown, however several sites mention that this makes an excellent container specimen which suggests that the roots don't get too large or out of hand.
- Mark

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Re: Crazy idea (v. 2.0)
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2015, 08:30:54 PM »
Myrciaria glazioviana (quite different to regular jab) is supposed to fruit better in part-shade than full sun. It is said to be very ornamental, doesn't fruit on trunk, likes acidic soil and prunable to shape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWKVttEQ5Y

Asimina tribola fruits well in shade but requires moist soil and tree shape may not suit you.

Davidson Plum requires shade until it grows big and then can tolerate a lot of sun. Fruit is very sour (loved by some) but those who don't can make a lot of jam with it. Tall and thin tree, the species davisonia jersyana is shorter than davidsonia pruriens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-j_mQkQy8

Australian finger lime prefers part shade. Most species are however thorny, but the fruits are a real treat with high culinary value.
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