Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.  (Read 6819 times)

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile

As many of you know most artocarpus family trees grow into very big trees. To make them more compact, I have been experimenting with various pruning techniques. These are not described in any books or manuals. Basically, I just improvise as I go along. So far quite happy with a few early results.

Artocarpus elasticus. Topped at chest height, picture taken after 6 weeks. It developed two sprouts, two future leaders.



10 months later nice two trunks growing sideways. Untopped tree ( not pictured) still reaching for the sky on a single trunk.



Chempedak Topped at chest height with side branching already developed. It did not grow any upwards leader after 6 weeks.



After 10 months still no new upwards leader, but got 3 nice branches taking leading role. Keeping leaders down with rope for a few weeks to establish 45 degree angle growth.



Jackfruit, I thought this would be easiest to control, as it already had few side branches to assume leading roles. I topped, and nothing like happened. First picture, 6 weeks after topping. Just tiny sprout at the top, but 10 months later this tiny sprout gained 8 feet. You can see where the cut was made as trunk shifted to a side a little. Other 2 jackfruits reacted the same way. Strange, but no bushy growth.





Marang  I cut lots of marangs at various heights. I find this species one of the easiest to control as they always develop three side branches at the area of the cut.

Marang nr. 1  Cut at the chest height. This is a picture after 6 weeks. Nice branching developing.



After 10 months side branches gained substantial growth at low level.



Topped, this tree once again. It looks out of shape now, but I believe I"ll get resumed upwards growth, and more energy going to the branches near the cut.



Marang nr. 2

Cut this tree at what might seem crazy level of about 1.5 feet only. About a year ago it still looked tiny but nice crown. Now it has gained growth and looks really good. It's my favorite looking marang tree. Great, low growing crown of three leaders.  It's a bit slower to grow than others, but I believe there is external issue as porcupine took substantial chunk of the trunk. It has healed now.





Pedalai

I had most success with this one out of all pedalai trees. Success seems to come yet again from very yearly radical cuts. Topped this tree at about one and half foot.  Looked like this:



Cut upwards leader once again here:





Basically it developed split into two architecture. Top the trunk, than top both 2 new trunks, now four leaders, and those leaders once again splitting into two with more cuts.  I really like the way this tree looks now. It is wider than taller. 13 feet across.



Note on other artocarpus species. No success yet with A. anisophyllus and A. hirsutus. They develop new leaders and keep going up as if nothing happened. 









pitbull-rus

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 05:42:11 AM »
Rytis,thank you very much for this thread and your work.For me it is very useful information.I grow Jackfruit and Marang indoors under artificial light.I noticed that both give the side branches under red LEDs and blue spectrum.Under the fluorescent lamps 6400К no such effect.Unfortunately the seeds Pedalai and Mentawak not give life.




Vernmented

  • Starry Nursery/Plant Hoarder/Zone Pusher/Biochar Enthusiast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1219
    • USA, Florida, Sarasota, 9B/10A
    • View Profile
    • Starry Nursery Instagram
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 09:44:06 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?
-Josh

fsanchez2002

  • FedHomestead
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • Homestead, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 09:54:01 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?

DLover: Thanks, that is super-valuable documentation on how to approach this problem. I think it's great you got the photo documentation. I'm going to start applying this with my arto-babies.

I think Vernmented has a good point about experimenting with tipping or just nipping the new buds. I didn't try this with my jackfruits, but I do it with with almost all my trees and generally works faster than pruning hard wood.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 11:27:02 AM by fsanchez2002 »
Federico
Homestead, FL

micah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
    • Waipio Valley, Hawaii, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 09:58:54 AM »
Very nice works!!!
Thanks for your knowledge.

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12380
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 05:31:30 PM »
Very nice works!!!
Thanks for your knowledge.

+1

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 09:00:56 PM »
Nice work and, I like the look of your project.  Does the adjacent forest area belong to you too?
The possum damage looks like what I run into here but that is caused by careless string trimmer work.
I have done a little of what you are doing but need to be more focused on staying with it.
Thanks for sharing,
Peter

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2016, 11:29:59 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?

I can update, possibly in couple years. But does not seem like a lot interest.

 I'm not tip pruning. Not trying to create a field of dwarf trees. That would be my worst nightmare. Would rather create more like rainforest type orchard with trees reaching up to about 30 feet. Just tall enough to cut or pick with suitable tool on a long bamboo stick. Main purpose is to create big low branching area to maximize accessible harvest.

And yes,  property is in Sri Lanka. It comes with free pet cobra!  :)

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 11:48:53 AM »
Nice work and, I like the look of your project.  Does the adjacent forest area belong to you too?

You mean the one behind pedalai picture? Giant tree is my, but behind it is a national forest. Not a single tree to be touched. This law is very much obeyed and enforced.
I have some private forest, but not likely to be ever cultivated.  Can barely manage part of the land. I pity people wanting some 30+ acres for private non commercial cultivation.

TropicalFruitHunters

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
    • USA, Columbus, OH, xxxxx Zone 5b
    • View Profile
    • Tropical Fruit Hunters
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 02:52:17 PM »
I think you've done a fine job and your efforts seem to be paying off.  Good information.  I'm hoping to plant a marang in Thailand.  I've never understood when people let their trees get so big and hardly ever be able to reach the fruit.  Good luck and please continue to update the progress.

ericalynne

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
    • United States of America, Florida, Venus, 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 08:28:28 PM »
I have been topping my two jakfruit seedling trees for several year. I have to get them into the greenhouse when temperatures dip below freezing, which happens in south/central Florida. So my goal was to keep them low enough to get in and out. The greenhouse is 13 feet high at the peak about about 7 foot high on the sides.

I found that my first cuts were much like you describe, Durian Lover and I was at first discouraged. But after the first three years, they suddenly started flushing out all over (instead of straight up). It was as if at first they wanted to shoot up tall, but eventually they gave up and just went bushy. (They are in pots.)

Erica




HIfarm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1121
    • Paukaa, HI, USA zone 12b
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2016, 11:47:01 AM »
Thanks for posting, Rytis.  I'm finally planting my Artocarpus out now & I am trying a similar approach.  Please keep us posted.

John

gunnar429

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • Nothing like fruit from your own yard!
    • West Park, FL 33023, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?

I can update, possibly in couple years. But does not seem like a lot interest.

 I'm not tip pruning. Not trying to create a field of dwarf trees. That would be my worst nightmare. Would rather create more like rainforest type orchard with trees reaching up to about 30 feet. Just tall enough to cut or pick with suitable tool on a long bamboo stick. Main purpose is to create big low branching area to maximize accessible harvest.

And yes,  property is in Sri Lanka. It comes with free pet cobra!  :)


I am very interested in this as I have a marang in a pot atm debating whether or not to plant it out.  Now, I am excited to try some....those trees are exactly what I am looking to do (if I end up going for it).  Thanks for posting.  Bookmarked!
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

palologrower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • Honolulu, HI, US, Zone 12B
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 06:37:16 AM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?


luc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
    • Mexico , Puerto Vallarta , Jalisco . 20 degr. North
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 12:54:55 PM »
I must have missed your post from Januari 2016 , glad I found it now , great info , thank you .
Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 01:21:49 PM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?

I'll take few photos when I'm there next month.  Marangs are the best.  When young they always respond with 3 new branches below the cut. 

Ethan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1644
    • Central California Z9/9
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 05:22:49 PM »
Great work DL, information that is no where else! Can't wait for more updates, it is very interesting to see your results. 

Cheers,
-Ethan

luc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
    • Mexico , Puerto Vallarta , Jalisco . 20 degr. North
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 05:35:13 PM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?

I'll take few photos when I'm there next month.  Marangs are the best.  When young they always respond with 3 new branches below the cut.

I got several marangs fruiting ( 5 plus meters tall ) do you think it would be wise to cut them down to lets say 3 meters ?

Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

Caesar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 417
    • PR
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 08:20:08 PM »

Pedalai

I had most success with this one out of all pedalai trees. Success seems to come yet again from very yearly radical cuts. Topped this tree at about one and half foot. ... ... ...

Cut upwards leader once again here: ... ... ...

Basically it developed split into two architecture. Top the trunk, than top both 2 new trunks, now four leaders, and those leaders once again splitting into two with more cuts.  I really like the way this tree looks now. It is wider than taller. 13 feet across.

I have a Pedalai, approximately 8 feet tall, give or take 2 feet, with a thick-ish trunk near the bottom (haven't measured the specifics). You mentioned "very yearly radical cuts". Do you mean early? Am I too late to try it now? What would happen if I topped it now, continued vertical growth, death of the tree, or success? Would I just cut off the tip, or cut it down to chest (or even knee) height? I wanna keep it bushy, and as small as practically possible.

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2017, 09:38:04 PM »

Pedalai

I had most success with this one out of all pedalai trees. Success seems to come yet again from very yearly radical cuts. Topped this tree at about one and half foot. ... ... ...

Cut upwards leader once again here: ... ... ...

Basically it developed split into two architecture. Top the trunk, than top both 2 new trunks, now four leaders, and those leaders once again splitting into two with more cuts.  I really like the way this tree looks now. It is wider than taller. 13 feet across.

I have a Pedalai, approximately 8 feet tall, give or take 2 feet, with a thick-ish trunk near the bottom (haven't measured the specifics). You mentioned "very yearly radical cuts". Do you mean early? Am I too late to try it now? What would happen if I topped it now, continued vertical growth, death of the tree, or success? Would I just cut off the tip, or cut it down to chest (or even knee) height? I wanna keep it bushy, and as small as practically possible.

Pedalai is very vigorous.  I'm 99.9% sure it will come back. Probably two split branches below the cut. I topped my maybe 6 times, leader and subsequently twin leaders. Would climb on construction ladder and top it. I gave up at about 13 feet. Now too tall to reach.
If I were you I would cut at least 1 foot.  I don't know how young trees respond to more radical cuts from let's say 8 to 3.

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 09:42:17 PM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?

I'll take few photos when I'm there next month.  Marangs are the best.  When young they always respond with 3 new branches below the cut.

I got several marangs fruiting ( 5 plus meters tall ) do you think it would be wise to cut them down to lets say 3 meters ?

I believe that's how they do it in Australia as per Mike T. The trees fruits for the first time to get those hormons going and than they make radical cut all the way down. But I would rather do my way.

nelesedulis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
  • I want to increase my collection of fruit trees!
    • Carangola, Minas Gerais Brazil
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 10:16:36 PM »
Hi DurianLover

I did the pruning procedure inspired by his technique, they are doing well, but it is good to point out, to use a protective product at the cutting site, I forgot to apply a cicatrizant paste in a marang and water got into the tube that exists in the stem And he almost died!

I think it's a good technique. Avoid having marangues with 12, 14 m as I have here.

Alexandre
Facebook
Alexandre Neles
Seeking information and new techniques, friendships are always welcome!

nelesedulis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
  • I want to increase my collection of fruit trees!
    • Carangola, Minas Gerais Brazil
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 10:19:01 PM »
I did the same test on a tree of Pourouma cecropiifolia, which also has the hollow stem, and grows hallucinately fast and tall, at least I believe that I will harvest fruits with 7 m, today I have trees with 18 m and the toucans and parrots who eat My Mapati fruits or amazon grape as you would like to call ... 8)
Facebook
Alexandre Neles
Seeking information and new techniques, friendships are always welcome!

DurianLover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1397
  • Sri Lanka
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2017, 11:15:23 AM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?


Some updates on artocarpus pruning techniques.  This is my last post. I'm done with pruning and topping. Trees are too big now to control them.

My method is pretty simple.  Cut the leader at about 5-6 feet. One usually get's leader to split into 2 or 3 branches, let them grow 3-4 feet and top all the leaders again. That's about it. Very simple. Works for nearly all artocarpus species. This technique is especially awesome on marang.

First of all on which species my method does not work. That would be chempedak and jackfruit. Looks like for these two are very much dependant on a variety, particular seedling, whether grafted or not, etc.  However what does really work well for chempedak size control is budding ( not grafting) on jackfruit. Those trees don't even look like trees. They grow like bushes. Here is a pic of example:



Pedalai. This tree was topped countless times.  I was determined to tame this giant.  I think all the topping let to the sprout and growth of the second trunk, which also has been topped. I even got third trunk to sprout, you can see. But I got greedy, wanted to split super low, and the tree simple abandoned that brach. Despite all efforts tree has intimidating size. I think most fruits will be unreachable anyway if it ever fruits.



Artocarpus hirsutus.  This tree was topped maybe 3 times. Also the side leaders got haircuts during second on third time. I only seen big trees, never seen young trees, so not sure if my method worked on this species or not. Maybe young seedlings looks naturally this way?  Mature trees if seen hardly have any low branches.  Can somebody from Kerala comment on a photo? Vipin?



Unidentified artocarpus. Since we here maybe somebody can ID? I'm pretty sure it's keledang. Usually don't plant without id, but this one planted anyway. If this is indeed keledang than it's great looking bushy tree without clear central leader using technique described above. I've seen mature tree in rainforest environment and fruits are basically unreachable. 



I'll update on  marangs later, when have more time.


vipinrl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
    • India, Western Ghats, Kerala
    • View Profile
Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2017, 12:07:52 PM »
Hi Rytis,
A. hirsutus grow like this only. You can't find lower branches on large trees, because Wild jacks are grown mainly for timber in Kerala. Moreover, lower branches dies off from the tree as the tree grows. BTB, this species is very fast growing.
Could you please tell something about growth rate of A. hirsutus? Some of the forum members are arguing that the species is slow growing.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 12:13:03 PM by vipinrl »

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers