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Author Topic: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.  (Read 6818 times)

DurianLover

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As many of you know most artocarpus family trees grow into very big trees. To make them more compact, I have been experimenting with various pruning techniques. These are not described in any books or manuals. Basically, I just improvise as I go along. So far quite happy with a few early results.

Artocarpus elasticus. Topped at chest height, picture taken after 6 weeks. It developed two sprouts, two future leaders.



10 months later nice two trunks growing sideways. Untopped tree ( not pictured) still reaching for the sky on a single trunk.



Chempedak Topped at chest height with side branching already developed. It did not grow any upwards leader after 6 weeks.



After 10 months still no new upwards leader, but got 3 nice branches taking leading role. Keeping leaders down with rope for a few weeks to establish 45 degree angle growth.



Jackfruit, I thought this would be easiest to control, as it already had few side branches to assume leading roles. I topped, and nothing like happened. First picture, 6 weeks after topping. Just tiny sprout at the top, but 10 months later this tiny sprout gained 8 feet. You can see where the cut was made as trunk shifted to a side a little. Other 2 jackfruits reacted the same way. Strange, but no bushy growth.





Marang  I cut lots of marangs at various heights. I find this species one of the easiest to control as they always develop three side branches at the area of the cut.

Marang nr. 1  Cut at the chest height. This is a picture after 6 weeks. Nice branching developing.



After 10 months side branches gained substantial growth at low level.



Topped, this tree once again. It looks out of shape now, but I believe I"ll get resumed upwards growth, and more energy going to the branches near the cut.



Marang nr. 2

Cut this tree at what might seem crazy level of about 1.5 feet only. About a year ago it still looked tiny but nice crown. Now it has gained growth and looks really good. It's my favorite looking marang tree. Great, low growing crown of three leaders.  It's a bit slower to grow than others, but I believe there is external issue as porcupine took substantial chunk of the trunk. It has healed now.





Pedalai

I had most success with this one out of all pedalai trees. Success seems to come yet again from very yearly radical cuts. Topped this tree at about one and half foot.  Looked like this:



Cut upwards leader once again here:





Basically it developed split into two architecture. Top the trunk, than top both 2 new trunks, now four leaders, and those leaders once again splitting into two with more cuts.  I really like the way this tree looks now. It is wider than taller. 13 feet across.



Note on other artocarpus species. No success yet with A. anisophyllus and A. hirsutus. They develop new leaders and keep going up as if nothing happened. 









pitbull-rus

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 05:42:11 AM »
Rytis,thank you very much for this thread and your work.For me it is very useful information.I grow Jackfruit and Marang indoors under artificial light.I noticed that both give the side branches under red LEDs and blue spectrum.Under the fluorescent lamps 6400К no such effect.Unfortunately the seeds Pedalai and Mentawak not give life.




Vernmented

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 09:44:06 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?
-Josh

fsanchez2002

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 09:54:01 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?

DLover: Thanks, that is super-valuable documentation on how to approach this problem. I think it's great you got the photo documentation. I'm going to start applying this with my arto-babies.

I think Vernmented has a good point about experimenting with tipping or just nipping the new buds. I didn't try this with my jackfruits, but I do it with with almost all my trees and generally works faster than pruning hard wood.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 11:27:02 AM by fsanchez2002 »
Federico
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micah

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 09:58:54 AM »
Very nice works!!!
Thanks for your knowledge.

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 05:31:30 PM »
Very nice works!!!
Thanks for your knowledge.

+1

Finca La Isla

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 09:00:56 PM »
Nice work and, I like the look of your project.  Does the adjacent forest area belong to you too?
The possum damage looks like what I run into here but that is caused by careless string trimmer work.
I have done a little of what you are doing but need to be more focused on staying with it.
Thanks for sharing,
Peter

DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2016, 11:29:59 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?

I can update, possibly in couple years. But does not seem like a lot interest.

 I'm not tip pruning. Not trying to create a field of dwarf trees. That would be my worst nightmare. Would rather create more like rainforest type orchard with trees reaching up to about 30 feet. Just tall enough to cut or pick with suitable tool on a long bamboo stick. Main purpose is to create big low branching area to maximize accessible harvest.

And yes,  property is in Sri Lanka. It comes with free pet cobra!  :)

DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 11:48:53 AM »
Nice work and, I like the look of your project.  Does the adjacent forest area belong to you too?

You mean the one behind pedalai picture? Giant tree is my, but behind it is a national forest. Not a single tree to be touched. This law is very much obeyed and enforced.
I have some private forest, but not likely to be ever cultivated.  Can barely manage part of the land. I pity people wanting some 30+ acres for private non commercial cultivation.

TropicalFruitHunters

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 02:52:17 PM »
I think you've done a fine job and your efforts seem to be paying off.  Good information.  I'm hoping to plant a marang in Thailand.  I've never understood when people let their trees get so big and hardly ever be able to reach the fruit.  Good luck and please continue to update the progress.

ericalynne

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 08:28:28 PM »
I have been topping my two jakfruit seedling trees for several year. I have to get them into the greenhouse when temperatures dip below freezing, which happens in south/central Florida. So my goal was to keep them low enough to get in and out. The greenhouse is 13 feet high at the peak about about 7 foot high on the sides.

I found that my first cuts were much like you describe, Durian Lover and I was at first discouraged. But after the first three years, they suddenly started flushing out all over (instead of straight up). It was as if at first they wanted to shoot up tall, but eventually they gave up and just went bushy. (They are in pots.)

Erica




HIfarm

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2016, 11:47:01 AM »
Thanks for posting, Rytis.  I'm finally planting my Artocarpus out now & I am trying a similar approach.  Please keep us posted.

John

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
Thank you so much for sharing this. This information would be impossible to find anywhere else on the internet. I hope there are more updates. :) Did you try tip pruning the new growth?

The property looks really nice. Is this in Sri Lanka?

I can update, possibly in couple years. But does not seem like a lot interest.

 I'm not tip pruning. Not trying to create a field of dwarf trees. That would be my worst nightmare. Would rather create more like rainforest type orchard with trees reaching up to about 30 feet. Just tall enough to cut or pick with suitable tool on a long bamboo stick. Main purpose is to create big low branching area to maximize accessible harvest.

And yes,  property is in Sri Lanka. It comes with free pet cobra!  :)


I am very interested in this as I have a marang in a pot atm debating whether or not to plant it out.  Now, I am excited to try some....those trees are exactly what I am looking to do (if I end up going for it).  Thanks for posting.  Bookmarked!
~Jeff

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palologrower

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 06:37:16 AM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?


luc

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 12:54:55 PM »
I must have missed your post from Januari 2016 , glad I found it now , great info , thank you .
Luc Vleeracker
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DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 01:21:49 PM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?

I'll take few photos when I'm there next month.  Marangs are the best.  When young they always respond with 3 new branches below the cut. 

Ethan

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 05:22:49 PM »
Great work DL, information that is no where else! Can't wait for more updates, it is very interesting to see your results. 

Cheers,
-Ethan

luc

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 05:35:13 PM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?

I'll take few photos when I'm there next month.  Marangs are the best.  When young they always respond with 3 new branches below the cut.

I got several marangs fruiting ( 5 plus meters tall ) do you think it would be wise to cut them down to lets say 3 meters ?

Luc Vleeracker
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Caesar

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 08:20:08 PM »

Pedalai

I had most success with this one out of all pedalai trees. Success seems to come yet again from very yearly radical cuts. Topped this tree at about one and half foot. ... ... ...

Cut upwards leader once again here: ... ... ...

Basically it developed split into two architecture. Top the trunk, than top both 2 new trunks, now four leaders, and those leaders once again splitting into two with more cuts.  I really like the way this tree looks now. It is wider than taller. 13 feet across.

I have a Pedalai, approximately 8 feet tall, give or take 2 feet, with a thick-ish trunk near the bottom (haven't measured the specifics). You mentioned "very yearly radical cuts". Do you mean early? Am I too late to try it now? What would happen if I topped it now, continued vertical growth, death of the tree, or success? Would I just cut off the tip, or cut it down to chest (or even knee) height? I wanna keep it bushy, and as small as practically possible.

DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2017, 09:38:04 PM »

Pedalai

I had most success with this one out of all pedalai trees. Success seems to come yet again from very yearly radical cuts. Topped this tree at about one and half foot. ... ... ...

Cut upwards leader once again here: ... ... ...

Basically it developed split into two architecture. Top the trunk, than top both 2 new trunks, now four leaders, and those leaders once again splitting into two with more cuts.  I really like the way this tree looks now. It is wider than taller. 13 feet across.

I have a Pedalai, approximately 8 feet tall, give or take 2 feet, with a thick-ish trunk near the bottom (haven't measured the specifics). You mentioned "very yearly radical cuts". Do you mean early? Am I too late to try it now? What would happen if I topped it now, continued vertical growth, death of the tree, or success? Would I just cut off the tip, or cut it down to chest (or even knee) height? I wanna keep it bushy, and as small as practically possible.

Pedalai is very vigorous.  I'm 99.9% sure it will come back. Probably two split branches below the cut. I topped my maybe 6 times, leader and subsequently twin leaders. Would climb on construction ladder and top it. I gave up at about 13 feet. Now too tall to reach.
If I were you I would cut at least 1 foot.  I don't know how young trees respond to more radical cuts from let's say 8 to 3.

DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 09:42:17 PM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?

I'll take few photos when I'm there next month.  Marangs are the best.  When young they always respond with 3 new branches below the cut.

I got several marangs fruiting ( 5 plus meters tall ) do you think it would be wise to cut them down to lets say 3 meters ?

I believe that's how they do it in Australia as per Mike T. The trees fruits for the first time to get those hormons going and than they make radical cut all the way down. But I would rather do my way.

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 10:16:36 PM »
Hi DurianLover

I did the pruning procedure inspired by his technique, they are doing well, but it is good to point out, to use a protective product at the cutting site, I forgot to apply a cicatrizant paste in a marang and water got into the tube that exists in the stem And he almost died!

I think it's a good technique. Avoid having marangues with 12, 14 m as I have here.

Alexandre
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nelesedulis

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 10:19:01 PM »
I did the same test on a tree of Pourouma cecropiifolia, which also has the hollow stem, and grows hallucinately fast and tall, at least I believe that I will harvest fruits with 7 m, today I have trees with 18 m and the toucans and parrots who eat My Mapati fruits or amazon grape as you would like to call ... 8)
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DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2017, 11:15:23 AM »
Any updates to the trees described in this post?


Some updates on artocarpus pruning techniques.  This is my last post. I'm done with pruning and topping. Trees are too big now to control them.

My method is pretty simple.  Cut the leader at about 5-6 feet. One usually get's leader to split into 2 or 3 branches, let them grow 3-4 feet and top all the leaders again. That's about it. Very simple. Works for nearly all artocarpus species. This technique is especially awesome on marang.

First of all on which species my method does not work. That would be chempedak and jackfruit. Looks like for these two are very much dependant on a variety, particular seedling, whether grafted or not, etc.  However what does really work well for chempedak size control is budding ( not grafting) on jackfruit. Those trees don't even look like trees. They grow like bushes. Here is a pic of example:



Pedalai. This tree was topped countless times.  I was determined to tame this giant.  I think all the topping let to the sprout and growth of the second trunk, which also has been topped. I even got third trunk to sprout, you can see. But I got greedy, wanted to split super low, and the tree simple abandoned that brach. Despite all efforts tree has intimidating size. I think most fruits will be unreachable anyway if it ever fruits.



Artocarpus hirsutus.  This tree was topped maybe 3 times. Also the side leaders got haircuts during second on third time. I only seen big trees, never seen young trees, so not sure if my method worked on this species or not. Maybe young seedlings looks naturally this way?  Mature trees if seen hardly have any low branches.  Can somebody from Kerala comment on a photo? Vipin?



Unidentified artocarpus. Since we here maybe somebody can ID? I'm pretty sure it's keledang. Usually don't plant without id, but this one planted anyway. If this is indeed keledang than it's great looking bushy tree without clear central leader using technique described above. I've seen mature tree in rainforest environment and fruits are basically unreachable. 



I'll update on  marangs later, when have more time.


vipinrl

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2017, 12:07:52 PM »
Hi Rytis,
A. hirsutus grow like this only. You can't find lower branches on large trees, because Wild jacks are grown mainly for timber in Kerala. Moreover, lower branches dies off from the tree as the tree grows. BTB, this species is very fast growing.
Could you please tell something about growth rate of A. hirsutus? Some of the forum members are arguing that the species is slow growing.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 12:13:03 PM by vipinrl »

DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2017, 12:28:23 AM »
Hi Rytis,
A. hirsutus grow like this only. You can't find lower branches on large trees, because Wild jacks are grown mainly for timber in Kerala. Moreover, lower branches dies off from the tree as the tree grows. BTB, this species is very fast growing.
Could you please tell something about growth rate of A. hirsutus? Some of the forum members are arguing that the species is slow growing.

That's too bad about lower branches dying off eventually, but again I don't think anybody in India is pruning so much and so early like I do. Some of the low branches are very sturdy. I just don't don't see how they will die off eventually. I have another hirsutus, which I was pruning even more aggressively and lower branches are relatively very strong and thick compared to the rest of the tree.  I guess time will tell how it works out eventually.
Yes A. hirsutus is super fast growing. My top 3 fastest trees. If I would not have been pruning it would have been much taller.

DurianLover

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 12:45:46 AM »
Part two of the update. Marangs. This is most promising species. Nearly all marangs I got made them bushy with lost of low spreading branches and no clear leader.  After seeing how well it reacts to size control, I think it's borderline sinful act just to plant and do nothing about size control  :) .

This is the only tree from from the first post.  Reuploading first pic to follow progress. The earlier pic is after second toping at 9 feet and the tree now.





Marang nr. 2. Topped higher than I usually do at around 7 feet and additional toppings of the leaders.



Marang nr. 3.  Topped at maybe 4 feet, than additional toppings of 3 leaders, now about 10 feet tall.




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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2019, 10:04:40 PM »
Great topic!! I will be trying to grow artocarpus in a very restricted space, I'd be very interested to how your plants have been doing since this post!  :)

Caesar

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2020, 01:57:33 PM »
The Pedalai survived the extreme "topping" I gave it (about a foot off the ground), but as it's growing in the shade of an invasive breadfruit grove, it's starting to take on some height again, it's about 10 feet now, give or take a few inches.



I also lopped off a thick branch, cut it into pieces, scored off the bark at the bottom of the pieces, dipped 'em in hormone and planted them (I did the same with a thick breadfruit sucker, a thin one, and a root piece). I'm not sure I should expect them to grow or rot (I'm not very optimistic about it), but it's a worthwhile experiment. Not much to lose except a bit of rooting hormone, and if it works, I'll get a few extra trees.



Here's a comparison with the Pedalai leaves at the corners and the Breadfruit leaves in the middle. I thought Pedalai leaves were supposed to be rounded. I got my tree from Govardhan Gardens, and I'm wondering if it's a hybrid.


ben mango

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2020, 10:42:27 AM »
doubtful its a hybrid, it looks like a pedalai leaf to me...

sunny

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Re: Topping and shaping artocarpus species. My experience so far.
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2020, 11:30:42 AM »
If you prune a pedalai branch it will make baby leaves again, that's what you have now...when the tree gets older the leaves will be more round without fingers.
But from pruning the branches can get sick, loose bark and have dead wood. Mine has several branches but i try to keep it small which is not easy.
Your tree is in the shade and will try to grow into the light high above.

I just pruned my keledang and hope it will make more branches but so far i can only see one new branch coming. I want to keep it small.


 

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