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Author Topic: U.S. 119...who is growing it?  (Read 6047 times)

Delvi83

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U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« on: February 12, 2016, 04:12:51 AM »
U.S.119 is an hybrid of 2nd generation having 1/4 of Poncirus t., 1/4 Grapefruit and 1/2 of Sweet Orange...

It should be pretty cold hardy and give sweet fruits...

Did someone grow it? how does it taste? when does it ripen its fruits?

Thanks :)

shah8

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 05:42:34 PM »
I'm interested too.

Delvi83

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 04:09:21 PM »
I've never read direct experiences about this Citrus.....as i know in USA should be more common than here in Italy, so let's wait if someone can give us more details !!

Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 04:50:17 PM »
I've never read direct experiences about this Citrus.....as i know in USA should be more common than here in Italy, so let's wait if someone can give us more details !!

At least in France many people have this hybrid. It is not as hardy as it is supposed to be.
I had it for three years in open ground, but lost  after -10C freeze.
It is long to fruit, better to keep it in the container to accelerate its maturity.
Fruits are sub-acid; with good taste, no poncirus influence, some people report it has a banana note.
Fruits are extremely fragile and explode even after a mild water stress.
http://www.agrumes-passion.com/poncirus-citranges-porte-greffes-rustiques-f67/topic5075.html
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                       Ilya

shah8

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 07:48:29 PM »
-10 degrees C works out fine for me.  It'd be grafted on trifoliate stock, and that would take care of the fruit bursting problem as well.

Get it big enough, on trifoliate stock, and it should be pretty workable with short sub 10 degrees F situations...

I just don't understand why Mackenzie Farms isn't offering this and Xie Shan.

Millet

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 03:52:46 PM »
Here is what it says about US 119  In the booklet "Hardy Citrus For The Southeast" by Tom McClendon.

US 119 is a citrumelo crossed with a sweet orange cross [(Poncirus trifoliate x Citrus paradisi)xCitrus sinensis] with large grapefruit-like leaves and orange fruit.  The tree has a mixture of unifoliate, bifoliate, and trifoliate leaves, with trifoliate dominating.  The fruit is very attractive, with a deep orange color and smooth peel.  Inside, the fruit is very attractive with a rich orange color and few to no seeds. The taste is sweet with just a touch of trifoliate aftertaste.  While US 119 has been touted as hardy to 10F. it remains to be seen if this is true. Young plants have been injured by temperatures in the low 20's.
Flavor: Sweet orange, few off-flavors, good quality.

FROM THE BOOKLET:  "Citrus For The Gulf Cost" by J. Stewart Nagle
Fruit very attractive, cadmium orange, sourish orange odor when scratched, fruit extremely firm......rind is extremely thin.......pulp juicy  with moderately sweet orange flavor, but with an unpleasant lingering bitter Trifoliate aftertaste. .... Tree upright , spreading....Foliage fairly small but broad, leaves 2/3 mulitifoliate.....makes a good ornamental.....Hardiness much of Zone 8....Cultivation easy.

Millet


Pancrazio

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2016, 07:33:11 PM »
Young plants have been injured by temperatures in the low 20's.

Low 20's? I have had low 20s here in January for several days in a row (with an absolute minimum of 21F) and oranges don't show damages (unprotected).
Probably those 20's must have been experienced after a relatively hot period, because a citrus damaged by low 20s is tender in my book.
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Millet

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2016, 10:16:09 PM »
The length of time a citrus tree is subjected to low temperatures has a lot to do whether the tree is damaged or killed.  Also the age of the tree has a lot to do with whether the tree is damaged or killed.  Pancrazio, how long were your oranges subject to 21-F, and what variety of oranges were left unprotected? - Millet

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 04:03:14 AM »
I must say, I'm not sure. I don't think very much because they have been peak low temperature, so, as you know, they may have lasted only few hours.
But also keep in mind that night in winter here are pretty long, and during the time we got such temperature night lasted here about 13 and half hours.
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Delvi83

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 01:11:42 PM »
If it dies with -10C, we can not put it among the "Cold-Hardy" citrus........I mean a Satsuma could be more cold-hardy and it's not crossed with Poncirus.

Did you have other Citrus in the ground when you lost your U.S.119 for -10C? Which kind of Citrus? Which survived? Which died?


Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 04:08:14 PM »
If it dies with -10C, we can not put it among the "Cold-Hardy" citrus........I mean a Satsuma could be more cold-hardy and it's not crossed with Poncirus.

Did you have other Citrus in the ground when you lost your U.S.119 for -10C? Which kind of Citrus? Which survived? Which died?
Here in Paris region I  am  probably thousand kilometers North from you,  and very often the freeze lasts for several days, often with days below freezing.
My long time average minimum is minus 9C. So even satsumas are not able to survive for more  than 3-4 years.
When US119 died, Thomasville, Ichanquat 6-7-2, Citremon, 5* Citrumelo, Citsuma Prague, Citrange Morton, Ichang Lemon and Glen hybrid were not affected at all.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 04:09:45 PM by Ilya11 »
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                       Ilya

Pancrazio

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2016, 08:00:24 PM »
When US119 died, Thomasville, Ichanquat 6-7-2, Citremon, 5* Citrumelo, Citsuma Prague, Citrange Morton, Ichang Lemon and Glen hybrid were not affected at all.

Got Ichang lemon few years ago from a kind guy in Switzerland and just this year managed to get it on poncirus. I must say, Im quite curious now to see how well it may do with our winters. Everything i read around look promising on this one.
Do you have tried also yuzus (last off topic, i promise).
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Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2016, 05:51:56 AM »
When US119 died, Thomasville, Ichanquat 6-7-2, Citremon, 5* Citrumelo, Citsuma Prague, Citrange Morton, Ichang Lemon and Glen hybrid were not affected at all.

Got Ichang lemon few years ago from a kind guy in Switzerland and just this year managed to get it on poncirus. I must say, Im quite curious now to see how well it may do with our winters. Everything i read around look promising on this one.
Do you have tried also yuzus (last off topic, i promise).
I lost Ichang Lemon (C.wilsonii) from B.Voss after Arctic episode with one night of -12.5, but now have its another, apparently more hardy variety: Shangyuan as well as Yuzu already for three years in ground.
No problems at all, but these winters were extremely mild.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Delvi83

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 06:09:49 PM »
I read people claim Satsuma survived -12C with only light leaf damage....may be it's more cold Hardy than some Poncirus Hybrid...

I did not think US119 was so sensitive to cold....probably, at the moment, the most cold-hardy (with good flavour fruit) is Cintrangequat Thomasville....

Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2016, 02:20:57 AM »
I read people claim Satsuma survived -12C with only light leaf damage....may be it's more cold Hardy than some Poncirus Hybrid...

I did not think US119 was so sensitive to cold....probably, at the moment, the most cold-hardy (with good flavour fruit) is Cintrangequat Thomasville....
Do not generalize on these digits. Night time occasional temperature drop for few hours with positive temperatures in daytime is not the same as the same temperatures when ground is frozen for several days.
Indeed, Thomasville for the moment is the best edible hybrid with poncirus blood.
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                       Ilya

shah8

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2016, 06:45:58 PM »
Thomasville doesn't really sound as useful as other poncirus crosses that ripen their fruits by November or December.


A ripe Thomasville is better than a ripe US119?  When does the US119 ripen?

Pancrazio

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2016, 08:03:23 PM »
The length of time a citrus tree is subjected to low temperatures has a lot to do whether the tree is damaged or killed.  Also the age of the tree has a lot to do with whether the tree is damaged or killed. Pancrazio, how long were your oranges subject to 21-F, and what variety of oranges were left unprotected? - Millet

You must excuse me Millet, my last answer was written very badly and unsure if i explained myself properly.
I will try to rewrite it again for sake of precision;

While I'm aware that the length of time a citrus tree is subjected to low temperature is a key factor in its ability to endure them, i must say that we probably got reasonably "extreme" in that regard. That' because even if our temperatures weren't very low,  our night on 44N are pretty long compared to the ones of most of southern USA (where the majority of the zones with a comparable yearly minimum temperature lie). So, supposedly, we had a pretty long duration of the cold, measured in hours. I must say, however that in that regard (duration of the cold) i haven't precise datas. Too bad the weather station that streamed live data in a graph form till recently (A WMO station, so a reliable one) discontinued the streaming service, so i just got the absolute minimum of the night ( -6,4C ). If it may give some indication, my PC weather application registered sub zero temps since about 22 (10 PM) till, i guess, the sunrise. With less severity, such pattern lasted about 10 days; with night temperature in the low 20s F and daily max temperature around the 40 F.

Regarding the orange that manage to survive this unprotected (and it still has attached a couple of undamaged fruits) i don't know what kind of orange it is; i know for sure that it's a sweet orange and the guy that owns it bough it back from a vacation in Greece. I kinda remember it being a navel orange but i wouldn't bet my money on it. I got a twig a couple of years ago but Im still undecided if is should graft it on Poncirus and try it at my place (wish is incidentally just 150 mt away from where the original plant grows).
I probably should take a couple of pictures to give you a better idea of what i'm talking about.
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Millet

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2016, 03:30:51 PM »
Citrus hardiness is harder to predict than palm
hardiness. Factors affecting hardiness are minimum
temperature, freeze duration, conditions before the
freeze, soil moisture and wind protection. Citrus are
usually hardier if theyre healthy, well watered and
fully dormant when cold arrives. Temperatures listed
here and with the descriptions of each variety are
approximate, and indicate where fully dormant plants
begin to experience significant damage

Hardy to about -15F (-26C)
   Trifoliate Orange Poncirus trifoliata

Hardy to about 0F (-18C)
   Ichang Papeda Citrus ichangensis

Hardy to about 5F (-15C)
   Citrandarins Poncirus trifoliata x Citrus reticulata
   Citranges Poncirus trifoliata x Citrus sinensis
   Citrumelos Poncirus trifoliata x Citrus paradisi
   Nansho Daidai Sour Orange Citrus taiwanica

Hardy to about 10F (-12C)
   Bloomsweet (Kinkoji) Grapefruit Citrus paradisi hybrid
   Citrangequats (Poncirus trifoliata x Citrus sinensis) x Fortunella spp.
   Complex Poncirus trifoliata hybrids: Glen Citrangedin, US 119, SanCitChang #10, Roundleaf
   ClemYuz hybrids Citrus ichangensis x Citrus reticulata
   Ichang Lemon Citrus ichangensis x Citrus maxima
   Yuzu Citrus ichangensis x Citrus reticulata
   Yuzuquat (Citrus ichangensis x Citrus reticulata) x Fortunella margarita
   Yuzvange Citrus ichangensis hybrid
   Ten-degree Kumquat Fortunella japonica hybrid
   Nippon Orangequat Fortunella crassifolia x Citrus reticulata
   Changsha Mandarin Citrus reticulata
   Juanita Tangerine Citrus reticulata

Hardy to the low teens (-11C)
   Keraji Mandarin Citrus reticulata
   Seville Sour Orange Citrus aurantium
   Smooth Flat Seville Sour Orange Citrus aurantium

Hardy to about 15F (-9C)
   Kumquats Fortunella spp.
   Procimequat Fortunella hindsii x Eustace limequat
   Sunquat and Marmaladequat Fortunella crassifolia hybrids
   Calamandarin Citrus reticulata hybrid
   Sour Oranges Citrus aurantium
   Sanbokan Grapefruit Citrus paradisi hybrid or Citrus sulcata

Taken from the booklet:
 Hardy Citrus For The Southeast
Author: Tom McClendon

Millet

« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 09:43:52 PM by Millet »

Pancrazio

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2016, 07:57:07 PM »
I managed to get changsha from that list but i still lack a source of bloomsweet mandarin in europe. Found a source, but they say that they got they plant from seeds, and i'm not aware if Bloomsweet comes true from seed.
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Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 08:40:52 AM »
Thomasville doesn't really sound as useful as other poncirus crosses that ripen their fruits by November or December.


A ripe Thomasville is better than a ripe US119?  When does the US119 ripen?

Thomasville is fully ripe by March. But by Christmas it can be used as lemon.
US119 is ripe by January and by this time it tastes like orange.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2016, 08:56:30 AM »
I managed to get changsha from that list but i still lack a source of bloomsweet mandarin in europe. Found a source, but they say that they got they plant from seeds, and i'm not aware if Bloomsweet comes true from seed.
Bloomsweet is a kind of grapefruit in taste.
I have it, but found that it is suffering after -9C, but is vigorous and   is able to regrow.
I now replanted it in my zone 9 garden near a Spanish border and last year got the first harvest. By the end of November fruits tested good, but not so sweet, in January they become overripe, very sweet.
I got my plant as grafted unmature wood from B.Voss and now after almost 12 years of waiting, found that it tastes and looks like what can be found in US sources.

Pancrazio, I have Netatmo station, very nice with cloud keeping of all your data; you can watch in real time very deep network of these stations all over the world and have rather reliable    forecast. You can look at their map for free, but need to register.
https://auth.netatmo.com/fr-FR/access/signup?next_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netatmo.com%2Ffr-FR%2Fweathermap
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:09:39 AM by Ilya11 »
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                       Ilya

Pancrazio

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2016, 07:51:12 PM »
I beg your pardon, but after your description of your fruit i feel compelled to ask. No offense taken if you refuse, but would you please be so kind to send me a twig of your bloomswet so i can graft it? As you can probably remember from the other citrus forum, I'm searching for hardy grapefruits for central Italy and bloomsweet seems a good choice, after i got someone confirming it to be cold hardy. At this point, if you tell me that it is of good quality, that's enough for me. I can exchange with anything from my "collection" or get you something from Tintori (which is incidentally 30 min away from my house) or Lenzi.
-9 is an exceptional occurrence at my place (last time i saw something similar was 6 years ago) and the plant could do well, i hope, in my climate.

Regarding the weather station, i take note. So far i kept most of my measurement with some old fashioned min-max thermometers, but i do recognize that this is less than optimal when we are testing hardiness. On other hand there are so many factors to take in account for hardiness, that any highly precise measurements of temperature won't take in account many other factors anyway.
This year Im especially happy because i managed to overwinter a clump of dwarf namwah in ground despite out absolute minimum temperature of -6C, but i must admit that the lack of a more precise measure of the temp endured by the banana will always leave me with the doubt on how much cold the plant actually experienced.
 
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Ilya11

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2016, 04:14:47 AM »
Pancrazio,
Of course, I can send you Bloomsweet budwood.
At least by Easter I am going to the South of France, I shall send you a notice when ready to send.
I am always looking for early, hardy and "edible" varieties, if you have something new, I will appreciate it.
By the way, below are Netatmo stations around Pratovecchio (10h11min, 28.02.2016)
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Slcullen

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2018, 12:21:30 PM »
I planted a US 119 in the spring of 2004, and it has done very well.  However, I find it inedible.  The pulp has a very strong taste of the rind.  It is very hardy, having come through temps in the mid teens F.  I'm in the Tallahassee, Florida where usually have a couple of weeks in late Jan or early Feb with below freezing temps.  This is the first time I've looked for the US 119 on the internet, and wished I'd done so early.  I'm thinking about grafting a Duncan grapefruit in the spring.   

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Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2018, 02:58:11 PM »
My practical experience differs in many ways from what I can read elsewhere. And it's not just the US119.
For US119, it is primarily about frost resistance data. It is significantly higher. And these are all my citruses grown in pots.

Only Czech language : http://www.citrusy.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/mrazuodolne-hybridy/hybr_-usa119/

 

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