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Author Topic: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening  (Read 6767 times)

Samu

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Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« on: February 15, 2016, 04:17:31 PM »
Hi everyone,
From the reading here and elsewhere, I understand that Citrus greening is a real pest to us, citrus growers. It's new to me, don't know if I have one affecting my citrus, but I understand they are already here -not too far from me-, some 25 miles away in Hacienda Height(?),  had already been affected. In fact, my daughter's house in next city of Orange had someone hung a trap in her backyard citrus tree; I guess is to monitor the "situation".

Another pest-in a substantially lesser degree, I think- is Leafminers, they came early to my yard last year, like about now: early Spring.

If prevention is a better cure, what can we -the home growers- do to prevent these pest from attacking our citrus? Perhaps it's been discussed before, if so, my apology, I must have missed it. Thanks, everyone!
Sam

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 09:28:49 PM »
Those traps have been used for many years and not just for ACP. But yeah, they're used to monitor insect population over a large area.

There's no cure for HLB and the only way to prevent ACP is screening the entire plant. The pesticide recommendation is Merit (imidacloprid) soil drench. It's systemic and will kill bees if the plant is in bloom. It's also not recommended to apply it more than once a year or so, since insects could build resistance unless you rotate it with other solutions, but there are no others to use. This is the scary neonicotinoid that's been blamed for bee deaths. I have no idea why bees don't build resistance to it. Maybe it's a disadvantage of having a colony system.

For leaf miner, the recommendation is don't worry about it. The pesticide recommendation is something systemic, like Merit. Same drawback as above.

bsbullie

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 07:16:00 AM »
Here in Florida leaf miner can be a big problem, assuming you want your tree to produce fruit.  The only true effective control is imidacloprid.
- Rob

Ilya11

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 07:39:51 AM »
It seems that planting Rosmarinus officinalis around citruses has some, although not absolute  repellent effect on citrus miners.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 12:15:22 PM »
Ilya11, thanks for the tip on rosemary.

BahamaDan

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2016, 02:01:47 PM »
Here in Florida leaf miner can be a big problem, assuming you want your tree to produce fruit.  The only true effective control is imidacloprid.

At what frequency?

Samu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2016, 05:27:42 PM »
Hi Fang and Rob, thanks for your useful replies. Ok, Imidacloprid, I read at other posts, that the dilution rate for this product   -here's from Amazon-:   
http://www.amazon.com/contains-Imidacloprid-Termiticide-Insecticide-ingredient/dp/B011S22ANI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455657225&sr=8-1&keywords=adonis+imidacloprid+75  ) comes to 1.6 Oz per 5G, right?

If so, is it ok then to use this same concentration to fight/prevent Leafminers and Citrus greening (ACP) in one shot using this same ratio? How many gallons per tree and the frequencies?

Sorry for all the questions, I never use Imidacloprid before. So, thanks again for sharing your knowledge... :)
Sam

bsbullie

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2016, 10:01:36 PM »
I dont ghink that rate is correct.   Would have to check to confirm.
- Rob

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 12:24:56 AM »
The ratio on Amazon is for termite control. The amount for fruit trees is way less like Rob said. Compare to this product to figure out how much you need. https://www.bayeradvanced.com/find-a-product/insects-pests/fruit-citrus-vegetable-insect-control

I calculated it for fun once and it was something in the teaspoon range to 5 gallons of water and apply a few cups per small citrus. It depends on how big each tree is. I have to find the piece of paper that has the conversions.

bsbullie

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2016, 12:33:46 AM »
The ratio on Amazon is for termite control. The amount for fruit trees is way less like Rob said. Compare to this product to figure out how much you need. https://www.bayeradvanced.com/find-a-product/insects-pests/fruit-citrus-vegetable-insect-control

I calculated it for fun once and it was something in the teaspoon range to 5 gallons of water and apply a few cups per small citrus. It depends on how big each tree is. I have to find the piece of paper that has the conversions.

Thats way off.  On the Bayer Advanced,  for a small tree with a 3 foot radius drip line,  its 1.5 ounces per gallon.  The ratio goes up as the tree size goes up.  You want to drench the tree with the entire amount, not just a few cups of it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 12:37:07 AM by bsbullie »
- Rob

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 12:57:18 AM »
Yes, do what the labels says. I did an intermediate concentration for mixing into a bucket. Don't actually use the amounts from what I said above. It was from memory and you should figure out the correct recommended amount you need.

Or just get the Bayer Advanced. It's enough for 21 small trees or one large tree with 12+ ft canopy radius.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 01:01:06 AM by fyliu »

Samu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 11:58:46 AM »
You guys are right, I quoted (from other related post) that above dilution is wrong; probably my senior moments... :)

I also found out that I have some difficulties to do the dilution conversion, going from Adonis product in powder form
to liquid dilution in a convenient and practical volume for us, home growers. Seems that the Adonis' 4 of 2.25 oz imidacloprid packages were intended for farmers/groves owners or termite operators instead of home plant growers...

So, ok then, to simplify my life, I'll go ahead get that Bayer Advance you guys recommended.
I am so thankful for your time and effort, Fang and Rob; highly appreciated!
Sam

Millet

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2016, 03:57:45 PM »
Leafminer does not attack the first flush of the year, but starts their attach with the second flush. - Millet

Tropheus76

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2016, 08:53:07 PM »
They havent taken the winter off here in FL the last couple winters. We are already in the 80s in the afternoon.

Samu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 01:15:27 AM »
Leafminer does not attack the first flush of the year, but starts their attach with the second flush. - Millet


Interesting phenomenon Millet and Tropeus76, thanks!
By the way, those interested in purchasing Bayer Advance, Home Depot has it for $15.97:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bayer-Advanced-32-oz-Concentrate-Fruit-Citrus-and-Vegetable-Insect-Control-701520/202019098

while the cheapest in Amazon is $24.48 (includes $5.77 shipping):

http://www.amazon.com/Bayer-Advanced-Vegetable-Concentrate-32-Ounce/dp/B004BLNVMS/ref=pd_sim_86_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=51i-OqV0GGL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1SSFZR5VEZCYNF8X4VRR

"Amazon prices are not always the cheapest"

Sam

Doglips

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 10:15:15 AM »
You can topical spray for leaf miners, neem ( no neem over 85 degrees) alternating weeks with spinosad.  It is a much bigger pain in the butt, it washes off wears out.  Requires a lot more vigilance.  It is an alternative to using a systemic.   

Tropheus76

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2016, 12:42:49 PM »
Neem in my experience doesn't do much for miners. Although my experience is limited in that we only have a couple months in FL where miners and temperature are compatible with Neem. Spinosad does pretty well though when you don't have rain storms every frikkin day.

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2016, 06:14:50 PM »
I don't think the topical stuff works as well. The miners deposit eggs on/in the tender leaves. So they may or may not be biting those leaves to get poisoned.

Once the eggs hatch, the larvae tunnel through the interior of the leaves and won't be biting the surface. I don't know if the eggs are actually on the leaves or in the leaves to begin with. I guess that makes a difference.

Doglips

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2016, 05:41:02 AM »
I don't think the topical stuff works as well. The miners deposit eggs on/in the tender leaves. So they may or may not be biting those leaves to get poisoned.

Once the eggs hatch, the larvae tunnel through the interior of the leaves and won't be biting the surface. I don't know if the eggs are actually on the leaves or in the leaves to begin with. I guess that makes a difference.
Valid point, once inside the leaf, topicals do nothing.  Topicals are preventive, not curative.

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 08:12:54 PM »
I just attended another citrus HLB ACP talk today.

One thing occurred to me: for home growers in southern California, not treating is a pretty good option.

The reason is we have parasitic wasp releases here for the last few years and I'be been having a hard time finding the psyllids these days. I think the wasps are going a pretty decent job at reducing the numbers. I stopped treating citrus with anything since I don't want to kill both the ACP and the taxmaria at the same time. ACP probably will rebound faster and then the wasps in response to it.

I don't think systemics like imidacloprid will hurt the wasps since it doesn't feed on the plant. It feeds on ACP. But sprays will definitely kill both.

simon_grow

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2016, 09:51:49 AM »
Due to laziness, I have not treated any of my citrus and they are doing great. Are there any negative side effects on humans for using imidacloprid. Any increase rate of cancer or that kind of stuff? Thanks,

Simon

laidbackdood

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 10:17:56 AM »
I read that spraying young leaves with fish/seaweed before the leaf miners turn up is good because they are unable to lay their eggs when the leaves have this coating on them.....i have just sprayed my new growth with this now.......in 2weeks i will spray with eco oil....an organic oil.

fyliu

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2016, 01:54:21 PM »
Imadacloprid is one of those pesticides that some claim are (partially?)responsible for european honey bee colony collapse in the US and is currently still banned in the EU. It's a form of synthetic nicotine. Definitely don't apply it right before or when your citrus are flowering.

It's a soil drench and goes into the plant to kill bugs when they feed on it. It's supposed to not be able to enter the fruit though, being blocked by some part of the fruit stem. It is probably the lesser poison if it's approved for consumers. There are a couple more options if you're a commercial grower. But the lack of a 2nd option means consumers don't have anything to rotate it with, and that can mean the bugs developing resistance faster. So that's another drawback of using it for us.

Is leaf miner a big problem in some areas? I grow mostly pummelo so they're not affected much. I heard mandarins get them more.

Doglips

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 06:22:48 AM »
I have had leafminers in pepper plants before.  I'm sure leaf miners have a preference, but I doubt that they will refuse to lay eggs because their favorite citrus is not around.

countryboy1981

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Re: Preventing Leafminers and Citrus greening
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 11:06:52 PM »
Just a random thought on HLB treatment, why can't an antibiotic be soil drenched so it is taken up by the roots where HLB starts?  Copper probably wouldn't be a good antibiotic due to the fruit being consumed but what about something like raw garlic?

 

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