Pugging

[Mark in Texas]

Just wanted to provide updated pics of my CC extreme pruning.  To properly form the three vertical leaders I had to continually tip them at the same knuckle so they would thicken up.  They are now strong enough to support new flushes

Nice job!  Just noticed what looks like a N deficiency.  May be the camera and the sun but those new leaves look pretty yellow.

[Mark in Texas]

..... why not just apply some potassium chlorate and be done with it.  At least you will then get fruit.

Huh?   

[FruitFreak]

..... why not just apply some potassium chlorate and be done with it.  At least you will then get fruit.

Huh?   

Wanted to post an update on this.

I added some pure "chlorate" only to have the tree rapidly decline and die...

JK

I want to advise that topping/tying a CC is not a good idea.  Rob was way right about this.  CC is a nightmare to try and form.  The tree has become far too leggy for being so short and basically will have to be reconfigured vertically.  Waste of time but good learning exercise.

[Mark in Texas]

..... why not just apply some potassium chlorate and be done with it.  At least you will then get fruit.

Huh?   

Wanted to post an update on this.

I added some pure "chlorate" only to have the tree rapidly decline and die...

JK

I want to advise that topping/tying a CC is not a good idea.  Rob was way right about this.  CC is a nightmare to try and form.  The tree has become far too leggy for being so short and basically will have to be reconfigured vertically.  Waste of time but good learning exercise.

I think Rob meant Muriate of Potash which if used judiciously should have no ill effect.  I'm not a seasoned mango grower like most of you guys but I don't believe mangos have a distaste for chlorides like avocados do. 

Topping and tying aka training, should have no ill effect on your trees unless you got a disease from the cuts.  Why would Coconut Cream be an exception?  Topping just induces a redistribution of auxins that collect in the terminal tips.  It's an apical dominance thingie.

Mark

[FruitFreak]

Topping and tying aka training, should have no ill effect on your trees unless you got a disease from the cuts.  Why would Coconut Cream be an exception?  Topping just induces a redistribution of auxins that collect in the terminal tips.  It's an apical dominance thingie.

Mark

Hey Mark.  You are correct, and I have seen positive results with every variety I have tried it on with exception to CC.  I think I topped it at 17" which looking back was a mistake.  Having seen the growth habits of CC from various aged trees I should have topped much higher maybe (48").  This cultivar seems to be an exception to the topping training application (if done too low).  At first things were going well with the newly formed canopy then it started to "leg out" like a wild octopus. 

To specifically answer your question I'm not sure exactly why.  The growth habit just isn't conducive to extreme topping.  Just thought I would share the results of my experiment.

[Mark in Texas]

Topping and tying aka training, should have no ill effect on your trees unless you got a disease from the cuts.  Why would Coconut Cream be an exception?  Topping just induces a redistribution of auxins that collect in the terminal tips.  It's an apical dominance thingie.

Mark

Hey Mark.  You are correct, and I have seen positive results with every variety I have tried it on with exception to CC.  I think I topped it at 17" which looking back was a mistake.  Having seen the growth habits of CC from various aged trees I should have topped much higher maybe (48").  This cultivar seems to be an exception to the topping training application (if done too low).  At first things were going well with the newly formed canopy then it started to "leg out" like a wild octopus. 

To specifically answer your question I'm not sure exactly why.  The growth habit just isn't conducive to extreme topping.  Just thought I would share the results of my experiment.

Well Rob and other seasoned growers should know best how to train various varieties based on a bit of age which is what counts.  If CC is a prostrate grower then topping it high makes sense especially in Florida subject to fungus pressures.  My Lemon Zest wants to shoot straight up and I let it, this after topping down to a 10" tall stick.   Even my tall Reed tree hugs the ground but it doesn't bother me except with the hose drags along the fruit. 

Only use topping as a tool, for your pleasure.  Tree really doesn't care.

[Mark in Texas]

My young Sweet Tart got its branches wrapped all the way around with surveyor's tape to get a more upright profile.  When the new branches lignify, harden up,  I'll remove the tape.  You could do the same with CC.

December last year with a new flush:



Worth opening that photo so see what nodes I chose to wrap those young branches with tape.  Too low and you don't get the effect you want.  Too high and you have them bending in on each other.

[Bananaizme]

    Ive got several tall sparsley branched mango trees that I'd like to pug this spring. What are the "signs" to look for on your tree that it's a good time to pug them ? For example , Buds swelling , or buds actually pushing ? Is it recommended to fertilize after pugging ?

 William

[FruitFreak]

My young Sweet Tart got its branches wrapped all the way around with surveyor's tape to get a more upright profile.  When the new branches lignify, harden up,  I'll remove the tape.  You could do the same with CC.

December last year with a new flush:



Worth opening that photo so see what nodes I chose to wrap those young branches with tape.  Too low and you don't get the effect you want.  Too high and you have them bending in on each other.

Hey Mark.  I won't give up just yet.  Once I plant in the ground I'll reshape to encourage vertical growth and prop up as needed.  Nice healthy looking ST.

[Das Bhut]

Has anyone tried pugging an avocado? specifically Oro Negro?

[FruitFreak]

Has anyone tried pugging an avocado? specifically Oro Negro?

Most healthy pushing Avos respond well to topping/pruning.

[shinzo]

    Ive got several tall sparsley branched mango trees that I'd like to pug this spring. What are the "signs" to look for on your tree that it's a good time to pug them ? For example , Buds swelling , or buds actually pushing ? Is it recommended to fertilize after pugging ?

 William

Good questions. ii too would be interested on the care just after pugging (watering and fertilizing)

[Mark in Texas]

Yes, avocados respond well to topping.

Just finished up a post at another forum on the results of the Lemon Zest topping down to a leafless stick last year.  It's now a beautiful small albeit branching tree with an upright growth habit. I think growers in Fl. could get away with this on this variety.  Creeping type trees not so sure.

LZ is just beginning to push.



Nice strong "main scaffold branches" at and below the first node and above the graft.


 

[Das Bhut]

Was forced to prune my oro negro avocado cause my neighbor's kindergartener vigorously stabbed it and my rollinia with a knife for fun. I'm afraid of pruning it any more because it's not upright at all, it looks like some branches might grow into the ground

[bsbullie]

I hope your neighbor doesnt mind the avocado tree.  It appears to be planted just off the property line and in a few years will be hanging into their property where they are free to do what they want to it, including pruning without your consent.

[Das Bhut]

the property lines are different from where the fence is but they don't care anyway

[cpnurse]

after reading this and knowing that my new Meyer lemon tree seems to be a bit tall and lanky. Should I pug it? I have only had it for a few week and just repotted it a few days ago. its a 1-2 year old tree ordered from lemoncitrustrees.com. Its in miracle grow all purpose garden soil. I had heard good things about it. I drilled extra holes in the bottom of the plastic pot its in. its on a stand and now out on the front patio getting morning sun/late afternoon shade. seems to be green and doing well. It will have to stay as a potted plant as I live in USDA zone 5 and theres no way it would survive our winters.

[Bananaizme]

    Hi Group

 I have a nice Mallika mango in a squat 7 gallon that is kinda tall ( close to 8 feet )  I'd like to Pug it but I have a few questions first. Is it getting to late in the summer to pug mangos ?   There are a couple of options as far as the height goes. I could cut it back at 25 inches or at 19 inches or the shortest option would be 13 inches. The actual graft union is 3 inches above the soil line. What are your thoughts , suggestions, recommendations as to where you would cut it back ?

 William

[Mark in Texas]

    Hi Group

 I have a nice Mallika mango in a squat 7 gallon that is kinda tall ( close to 8 feet )  I'd like to Pug it but I have a few questions first. Is it getting to late in the summer to pug mangos ?   There are a couple of options as far as the height goes. I could cut it back at 25 inches or at 19 inches or the shortest option would be 13 inches. The actual graft union is 3 inches above the soil line. What are your thoughts , suggestions, recommendations as to where you would cut it back ?

 William

When do your tropical trees start going dormant where you live?  If you expect another flush or two, I'd say do it.  I top above the graft and below the first node in the spring.  It's been a huge success for me on 3 mangos.   It induces what I want, at least 7 future, woody scaffold branches that I'll fruit from.

Did quite a bit of grafting this year on avocado, mango, and citrus.  All done about 2 mos. ago and flushing like a mofo.  I'm on my second flush of foliage for my new cocktail tree of 4 Zill varieties that I did in July, 7 grafts total.  IOW, I'm done for the year whether it be topping or grafting.



We get frost by Thanksgiving which is when most pretty much shuts down.

Your call....

[Bananaizme]

    Mark

Your zone sounds about like mine. Most years we get our first frost between thanksgiving and Christmas. My trees have been flushing now. I think I'm going to do it . Just a little nervous hacking them back like that.

William

[strkpr00]

I have searched till my eyes glazed over. How long should I wait to pug a mango after planting? The future trees are 3 gal. and quite tall.

[FruitFreak]

I have searched till my eyes glazed over. How long should I wait to pug a mango after planting? The future trees are 3 gal. and quite tall.

I would do it now if their roots are semi-established and not susceptible to flooding - but that's just me.

[zands]

I have searched till my eyes glazed over. How long should I wait to pug a mango after planting? The future trees are 3 gal. and quite tall.

Post a few photos and identify varieties. Many 3 gallon trees will fill and branch out just fine without pugging. I posted a photo of a mango tree a few years ago and asked if it should be pugged, It was pretty spindly. People said not to pug ...bsbullie I think..... I did not pug and it turned out great.

Years ago I pugged two mango trees...Keitt...Fairchild..... before I ever read about pugging here. They both did well.

[strkpr00]

gary about 6 feet tall


pineapple pleasure about 7' tall



pheonix about 5.5' tall

[zands]

strkpr00 --
The last one no pugging.
The first two yes. I would like to see what others say about what height to pug at.