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Author Topic: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3  (Read 5358 times)

spaugh

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2018, 11:52:12 AM »
Simon, my wife, son and I sampled the leo#3 fruit this morning.  I was skeptical that it would be as good as a cherimoya but it was excellent.  Very sweet but also nice fragrant slightly perfumy raspberry acid flavor.  My wife said she prefers it to cherimoya.  My son was begging for more once it was gone.  I thought the flavor and texture were excellent.  Very clean taste with good sugar and mild berry aftertaste.  The flesh did not come off as easy close to the skin but the heart of the fruit had exactly cherimoya juicy soft texture.  And the pice of fruit we got had pretty low seed count.  Thanks for the sample, we want more.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 12:48:12 PM »
Simon, as you know i have Leo's #1&3 growing on my trees but will be a few years before branches are big enough to fruit but I'll be sure to report to you when they do! My season up here on Central Coast is later than down South and we have cooler Summers so will be interesting to see when they ripen up here. ;)

Scott, Iím glad you were able to get the grafts to take last year. Both the #1 and #3 are great fruit. I canít wait for the taste report when yours finally fruits. Please keep us updated!

Simon

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2018, 12:56:44 PM »
Simon, my wife, son and I sampled the leo#3 fruit this morning.  I was skeptical that it would be as good as a cherimoya but it was excellent.  Very sweet but also nice fragrant slightly perfumy raspberry acid flavor.  My wife said she prefers it to cherimoya.  My son was begging for more once it was gone.  I thought the flavor and texture were excellent.  Very clean taste with good sugar and mild berry aftertaste.  The flesh did not come off as easy close to the skin but the heart of the fruit had exactly cherimoya juicy soft texture.  And the pice of fruit we got had pretty low seed count.  Thanks for the sample, we want more.

Hey Brad, Iím glad your family enjoyed the fruit. Unfortunately that was the last Fruit on Leoís tree, his crop was decimated by rodents this year. I have a couple grafts from last year that can probably hold fruit but it would probably be smarter to let the grafts grow out so I can get more fruit the following year.

Leo brought a couple of these fruit to the Cherimoya tasting last year but he had to pick them early and they didnít ripen in time for the tasting.

Simon

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2019, 02:43:46 PM »
Any pictures of this fruit?

JF

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2019, 11:44:38 PM »


Oolie

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2019, 04:35:02 AM »

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2019, 12:03:58 PM »
For those of you that have sampled the Leo Hybrid #3, what do you think about the fruit, the good and the bad. Iím interested in honest opinions about this fruit because I feel it is relatively unknown but it is extremely high quality and more growers should include this selection in their orchards.

To me, the major downside to this variety is the bumpy skin which can easily get damaged in transport, just like El Bumpo.

The pros to this selection is the late harvest season, excellent taste and the fact that also gets fruit without hand pollination.

We need more growers to report wether or not they are getting fruit without hand pollination.

Simon

Oolie

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2019, 01:54:52 PM »
For those of you that have sampled the Leo Hybrid #3, what do you think about the fruit, the good and the bad. Iím interested in honest opinions about this fruit because I feel it is relatively unknown but it is extremely high quality and more growers should include this selection in their orchards.

To me, the major downside to this variety is the bumpy skin which can easily get damaged in transport, just like El Bumpo.

The pros to this selection is the late harvest season, excellent taste and the fact that also gets fruit without hand pollination.

We need more growers to report wether or not they are getting fruit without hand pollination.

Simon
As far as season is concerned, I'm not sure if it really matters that much give how one can manipulate the flowering by selectively defoliating branches in order to stimulate off blooms. For instance, I have a Concha Lisa (Cherimoya) fruit at the same time as the fruit that Leo donated. This is mostly due to summer pruning of branches.

I can only Judge on the the two fruits Leo was kind enough to donate to me, and I like my fruit on the riper side, so all comments will be in regard to the overripe fruit I have consumed.

Most of what I can compare it to has been fruit I have sampled from the Irvine tastings over the years. So use your judgement of the general quality that can be sampled there to get a baseline for my review.

OK, I know that tastes and flavors can get a bit confusing, so I will try to divide the attributes in to their own categories to keep everything understandable.

Taste: Tastes are things like sweet, sour, and salty. I have to say, after trying a slice of the Leo #3 I now understand why many say they have trouble finishing a single mango in one day. The fruit is incredibly sweet, so sweet it almost has an astringent 'bite' to it. The only other thing I have tasted which is as sweet and likely to cause a stomach ache is Mizu-ame, a Japanese fair food which is a syrup made from broken down starch. After a few bites of it or Leo #3, a stomach ache can be anticipated. I like this level of sweetness, but I can only handle a little at a time. Certainly I have never tasted a cherimoya at the tastings which even came close in the sweetness department.
There seems to also be a very mild sub-acid component which previously has been likened to rasperries or blueberries. I can taste a slight sub-acid component, but in the ripe stage I consumed the fruit, it was quite subdued, I may consume it on the less-ripe side in the future at least I think I would prefer a little more acid. It wasn't as sour as an El Bumpo or Sabor to my memory.

Texture: I know this is a big sticking point for many people, some who prefer a hard fruit to a soft one, or a melting one to a chewy one. I don't mind different textures as much as some, as long as there is no objectionable fiber. I found that the texture on Leo#3 was interesting, quite a bit firmer than any cherimoya I have sampled in the past, probably due to the Squamosa  genetics. Not quite chewy, but very juicy. The flesh had some segmentation going on, and while not being melting soft like a white sapote or dead ripe cherimoya, it was like a jackfruit in texture, though instead of being chewy the flesh did break down in a smooth (read:melting) way. There was a slightly fleshy sac around the seed, but not objectionably so. There was some grit nearer the skin, but enough flesh to where you could cut those parts away and not feel too bad. Also, these fruits were so ripe that there were bruises on the outside, but somehow the inside doesn't seem to be damaged (like some mangoes). These last issues could probably be avoided by consuming the fruit on the less-ripe side.

Flavor: This is where I get interested, as I find flavors to be far more varying than tastes or textures, which is why I feel Annonas are special. From what I have tasted in past years at the tastings in Irvine, I broadly categorize cherimoyas into three flavor profiles. Tropical/fruity: Anything from pineapple to apple to melon or banana. Floral: on the mild end, some fruits taste of berries, on the intense end, they can enter the lavender range. Butterscotch/Caramel: I have felt that the dominant flavor in some samples has been more comparable to dairy derivatives than to anything else I have tasted in the fruit world.

So where did Leo#3 fall? I feel it was on the extreme mild end of floral in the overripe state. I didn't get much flavor from in at all. Certainly it did not fill the room with any particular aroma when sliced open, nor could I taste it on my breath hours after consumption like you would with an Alphonse. I would compare that experience to the Concha Lisa I cut open a day or so later. The Concha Lisa had an extremely intense aroma falling into the Tropical/fruity category. The aroma was like the distillate of a Fuji apple, with a slight back note of bubblegum like you taste in some muskmelon varieties(read:melon).

So to summarize, I think the Leo#3 is one of the better varieties I have sampled if not just annona, fruit in general. It has an extremely sweet taste, mild flavor, and unique melting-jackfruit texture. The shelf life seems better than most cherimoya, and it doesn't spoil if damaged. The seed to flesh ratio was acceptable, and Leo does not pollinate, so these fruit were produced without human intervention.

My grafts have all pushed, so in a couple years I will have more info.

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2019, 08:10:11 PM »
Thanks for the report Oolie!

We all have different taste preferences(and perceptions) and I appreciate your description. Leo gave me a fruit as well so Iíll report back on mine tonight or tomorrow. Everyone I shared this fruit with so far has been extremely impressed with it, especially those that like the sugar apple background flavor.

You are lucky you got some fruit from Leo before the rodents got to them. The rodents are really starting to cause serious fruit loss in Leos yard.


Simon

NickTheNZgrower

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2019, 08:28:07 PM »
This is a really impressive looking fruit, Simon.

Brad was kind enough to send me some seeds from Leo#3, Rudy#20, el bumpo, pierce and knight. We don't have a lot of choice from cherimoya cultivars here in NZ and I'm really hoping some of the seedlings end up being top tier quality fruiters.

I want to grow them in some kind of commercial way eventually so really hoping for a few golden producers that I can also propagate and share in NZ.

I'll be sure to update the forum when I finally get to sample fruits. The seeds are only going to be started this coming spring (September for us) so still at least 3-5 years away but time will fly and I'll have a report eventually :)

In the mean time, I'm enjoying reading about the different annonas out there.

Nick

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2019, 11:28:06 PM »
Nick, I hope you get some good seedling selections from the seeds Brad sent you. Iíve had good luck with Cherimoya seedlings producing excellent quality fruit.

Leoís Hybrid #3 is an F1 Hybrid so I expect it to have significant differences between seedlings but the seeds of Leoís  Hybrid is self pollinated or possibly cross pollinated through insects but there is the possibility it was selfed so some of the traits may be set. You will still probably have to plant out quite a few seeds to get a seedling with the traits you want but you may come up with something fantastic.

If you have an established Cherimoya or Atemoya, you can try grafting your seedlings onto the established tree in hopes that the seedling will Fruit much sooner for you.

I grafted a two year old Orange Sherbet seedling mango scion onto my potted Bonsai double rootstock mango tree and the scion flowered this year.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2019, 12:01:36 AM »
So I completely forgot about the Leo Hybrid #3 fruit I put in the fridge several days ago until today so I decided to cut her up and hope it was still edible.

The fruit looked fine on the outside and there were no soft spots so I was hoping for the best. When I cut it open, it looked perfectly creamy white with excellent firmness, it was not mushy at all. Before I took a bite, I took a Brix reading from the tip of the fruit. When I squeezed the fruit, there was not much juice, the flesh held onto the juice very well.

I got a couple drops of juice onto my Refractometer but there was a tiny bit of pulp as well. I was shocked to see the Brix at 32%, the limit of this particular Refractometer. I do have one that goes to 60% and another digital Refractometer but I could clearly see the line at 32%.

I decided to take another reading from the middle of the fruit and this time I got a reading of 30% Brix.

I took a bite of the fruit and it was extremely sweet, the sweetest I have ever tasted in a Leo Hybrid #3 fruit. There was good acidic balance but the fruit was extremely sweet. I hadnít noticed it before but this fruit was slightly segmenty and slightly chewy in a good way.

This fruit is absolutely amazing and would be a good substitute for people that canít grow sugar apple although I donít like sugar apples because they are seedy and lack acidic balance. I personally like Leoís Hybrid #3 about a thousand times better than sugar apples and compare it favorably with the best of the best Cherimoyas.

Keep in mind that I have not had a fresh Cherimoya in months now so this late season Annona is on center stage. This fact is perhaps one of the reasons I like this fruit so much, it is an excellent Annona extender. My Cherimoyas are just starting to flower so this Annona Hybrid has a natural fruiting cycle that is completely opposite of its Cherimoya cousin.

I guess the fact that it is self fruitful is an added bonus. This tree would be great for those people that are too busy, or lazy to hand pollinate. It can be beneficial for elderly gardeners that physically canít hand pollinate their Annona trees.

If you plan on grafting up a multigraft Annona tree, I would recommend you graft the Leo Hybrid as the top graft so that as the tree matures, the Leo Hybrid will be at the apex. I recommend this because as the tree matures and the fruiting canopy climbs higher and higher, it will be difficult to reach the flowers at the top of the tree for hand pollination but hand pollination is not required for Leoís Hybrid so you will be able to get fruit where you normally wouldnít.

Here are some pictures taken today.












I still have half the fruit in the fridge

Simon

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2019, 12:04:45 AM »
Iíve had Sabor and most of the more popular varieties from the UC extensions Cherimoya tastings and from our own Cherimoya tastings and itís hard to compare them without doing a direct taste comparison. Cherimoya season is much earlier for me and Leoís Hybrid #3 ripens much later. This late, or early in the annona season when I havenít had a Cherimoya in a couple months, this Leo Hybrid #3 tastes as good or even better than a Cherimoya but that could just be the fact that I have no Cherimoyas around to compare to.

Iím sure Iíve mentioned it several times already but Iím not a fan of Atemoyas because I feel most lack acidity. The Leo Hybrid has so much acidity I feel it has more acidity than Selma and Booth, maybe similar acidity to El Bumpo on a good day.

Simon

Is there any way to get scions of this?

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2019, 12:44:49 AM »
Brad and I are trying to grow out several of these trees but we probably wonít have enough scions this year because people have bought all our extra scions. Annonas grow super fast at the orchard so we should have scions next year.

I did graft up a bunch of small seedlings recently but the scions and rootstocks were super small so Iím not expecting a lot of takes. If we get more takes than expected, I will post the extra grafted trees for sale in the buy sell forum.

Simon

NickTheNZgrower

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2019, 03:13:14 AM »
Nick, I hope you get some good seedling selections from the seeds Brad sent you. Iíve had good luck with Cherimoya seedlings producing excellent quality fruit.

Leoís Hybrid #3 is an F1 Hybrid so I expect it to have significant differences between seedlings but the seeds of Leoís  Hybrid is self pollinated or possibly cross pollinated through insects but there is the possibility it was selfed so some of the traits may be set. You will still probably have to plant out quite a few seeds to get a seedling with the traits you want but you may come up with something fantastic.

If you have an established Cherimoya or Atemoya, you can try grafting your seedlings onto the established tree in hopes that the seedling will Fruit much sooner for you.

I grafted a two year old Orange Sherbet seedling mango scion onto my potted Bonsai double rootstock mango tree and the scion flowered this year.

Simon

Thanks for the pointers and info Simon. Very helpful.

I'm really hoping something good comes out of all of the seedlings. With have quite a large number with the amount of seed I have.

I have a few mature cherimoya and atemoya so I'll definitely be grafting them on eventually to speed up fruit testing. Definitely don't have enough mature trees to graft on all of them though but hopefully I'll get there soon enough :)

Have you ever grafted a young seedling to a mature tree and got a flower the same season?

Oolie

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2019, 07:01:17 AM »
Here are some pics of the fruit I sampled. Note the visible segmentation/grit near the skin.





As it turns out, I may have found myself in a very fortunate situation.

Specific cross breeding experiments will require caution, but it appears that a nitilutid may have joined the party.

I was getting ready to pollinate an El Bumpo flower, and two of these popped out.


Guanabanus

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2019, 08:24:05 AM »
Those beetles do pollinate, but they are much larger than Nitidulids.
Har

simon_grow

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2019, 11:06:52 PM »
Nick, I hope you get some good seedling selections from the seeds Brad sent you. Iíve had good luck with Cherimoya seedlings producing excellent quality fruit.

Leoís Hybrid #3 is an F1 Hybrid so I expect it to have significant differences between seedlings but the seeds of Leoís  Hybrid is self pollinated or possibly cross pollinated through insects but there is the possibility it was selfed so some of the traits may be set. You will still probably have to plant out quite a few seeds to get a seedling with the traits you want but you may come up with something fantastic.

If you have an established Cherimoya or Atemoya, you can try grafting your seedlings onto the established tree in hopes that the seedling will Fruit much sooner for you.

I grafted a two year old Orange Sherbet seedling mango scion onto my potted Bonsai double rootstock mango tree and the scion flowered this year.

Simon

Thanks for the pointers and info Simon. Very helpful.

I'm really hoping something good comes out of all of the seedlings. With have quite a large number with the amount of seed I have.

I have a few mature cherimoya and atemoya so I'll definitely be grafting them on eventually to speed up fruit testing. Definitely don't have enough mature trees to graft on all of them though but hopefully I'll get there soon enough :)

Have you ever grafted a young seedling to a mature tree and got a flower the same season?

Not with Cherimoyas but I grafted a 2 year old Orange Sherbet Seedling onto my double rootstock bonsai mango tree last year and it flowered and is holding newly set fruit now.

I have a bunch of seedlings from Raulís giant Cherimoyas and they are newly sprouted so they are too small to take scions from but as soon as they are large enough, I will take scions and graft them onto my larger Cherimoya tree to see if anything is worth keeping.

Simon

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Re: Leo hybrid Cherimoya crossed with Atemoya seedling #1 and#3
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2019, 04:09:01 AM »
Oh cool, good to know.

Do you have picks of Raul's giant cherimoyas??

 

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