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Author Topic: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?  (Read 6971 times)

gunnar429

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I am a grafting newbie and have only just started to have some success.  I love using buddy tape to prevent from bagging the scions...and I love how you can see it pushing without unwrapping.  The problem is that I am a little clumsy and it is difficult to wrap the union tight enough, especially with buddy tape.  I got some green tape from Adam a while back and it seemed to work well, but I would prefer something that will hold the tightness initially while I try to neaten up the rest of the wrap. 

My thinking is that black electrical tape would work well for the union part and then I could use buddy tape to wrap the scion to prevent water getting in/scion from drying out.

Is this a bad idea?

Go!
~Jeff

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skhan

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2016, 07:34:10 PM »
Newbie at grafting here too so I feel your pain. I've been using flagging tape for this.
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gunnar429

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2016, 07:52:26 PM »
Newbie at grafting here too so I feel your pain. I've been using flagging tape for this.

I especially hate when trying to graft (usually veneer) onto green wood which promptly snaps off when I try to wrap the graft tightly.  I am new to flagging tape, but open to anything that pulls tight without breakage and sticks to itself since  I haven't mastered life as an Octopus yet.
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

bsbullie

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2016, 08:25:36 PM »
Flagging tape as in the type of tape to mark the trees for purchase at a nursery?
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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 08:42:45 PM »
I have actually bought a tree with the black electric tape used as grafting tape so i think its possible to use it for grafting
Robert

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 09:53:50 PM »
electrical tape comes in many colors , i always use the white  just in case the heat matters with the darker colars 1 and 1/2 wraps is all it takes you can pull it tighter than you need with no breaking,i bend over a small tab on end  to make removing easer, this works well for my stiff hands.          Patrick

skhan

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 10:17:35 PM »
Flagging tape as in the type of tape to mark the trees for purchase at a nursery?

Yup I think it's the same kind.
I Find it to be a good multipurpose tape are the yard, tying up trees, marking them, easy enough to write on. I use it in conjunction with parafilm. If you double it up or fold it in half it's can withstand a good bit of tension.
This is mainly for the older wood that's need more force to ensure good contact. I wrap the graft (only) directly with the flagging tape and wrap the scions and graft with parafilm to keep it water tight.

Ideally I want to get good enough where I don't need it. But I guess whatever works for now.

Also a tip I learned at the recent grafting class at rfvcb (taught by Sal) is to fold the parafilm M in half twice and you get pretty good tension that way too.

There are plenty of more experienced grafters on the forum, they'll have better insight than me. Just thought I'd share what works for me.
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cos

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 10:22:11 PM »
I have had good luck using a twist tie [ the kind with wire in center] & wrapping around twice so that good pressure can be applied.
Once I see buds sprout I loosen the twist tie & leave the rest of tape alone.

gunnar429

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 10:40:32 PM »
electrical tape comes in many colors , i always use the white  just in case the heat matters with the darker colars 1 and 1/2 wraps is all it takes you can pull it tighter than you need with no breaking,i bend over a small tab on end  to make removing easer, this works well for my stiff hands.          Patrick

Wow, Patrick.  You opened my eyes--I thought it only came in black...Thanks for the tip regarding the pull-tab for easier removal.  Good to know I can utilize this method in the future.
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

shaneatwell

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 11:57:34 PM »
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.
Shane

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2016, 12:41:16 AM »
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

Solko

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2016, 01:46:30 AM »
Hi, electrical tape works well to make the graft, in my experience, but it is the untying process that is the problem.

I used it for all my grafts the first year I started grafting specifically for that reason: it helps you tie the graft in a much firmer way. I realized the trouble with it came when it was time to remove the tape. I got good takes on my grafts and was all happy and proud. But on some trees he glue on the tape had glued so well to the bark, that I ripped of parts of the bark on my otherwise good grafts. That made me lose half of my grafts in the end at the untying stage.
After that I studied how to tie a graft a bit better in youtube movies and I now use parafilm, or cut strips of plastic bags if I need something stronger.

DimplesLee

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2016, 01:50:39 AM »
I guess I'm more of a noob than you Jeff - I find it easier to use white poly budding tape then I just use the smallest and most flexible cable ties to "seal" the tape on both ends. I'm afraid to use clear grafting tape - might scorch the graft Union or bud as I just leave newly grafted plants in an area where they get some morning sun. If they don't survive that, too bad - I chalk it up to natural selection not my poor grafting skills :D
Diggin in dirt and shifting compost - gardeners crossfit regime :)

EvilFruit

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 07:22:50 AM »
This guy from Iraq is using electrical tape to keep the union in place. See at 2:30 min

« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 07:26:30 AM by EvilFruit »
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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016, 09:24:36 AM »
Where do you usually get parafilm tape in America? I Mean supermarket? Drugstore? I haven't seen it here in Mexico, maybe I haven't look in the right place, what is the most common use for it, is designed specially for grafted? I Thought it was similar to the one is use here to wrapped the meat of the fruits in the supermarkets, I bought it and use it,  but it comes very wide so I cut it in long strips,  it worked at some point but it doesn't have the elasticity that I noticed in parafilm while unwrapping some mango scions I received from Florida, so any lead for the kind of stablishment I should look for to get them, thanks!
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barath

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 10:44:25 AM »
For grafts that require tension I use electrical tape on top of parafilm.  It's worked our relatively well.  For grafts that don't need a lot of tension, I just fold parafilm over and that gives it enough strength to hold in place.

I am thinking of switching to buddy tape, though, because parafilm is a little too brittle.

gunnar429

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2016, 10:52:58 AM »
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

So do you hold the scion in place, wrap the rubber band tightly, then just wrap buddy tape over the rubber band?
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

shaneatwell

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 11:16:33 AM »
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

So do you hold the scion in place, wrap the rubber band tightly, then just wrap buddy tape over the rubber band?

I've done that a couple times, but more often I'll wrap the scion/junction first with grafting tape as tight as I can without disturbing it first. Sometimes that's not very tight. Then I'll wrap the rubber band, really cranking it.

One thing I really like about the rubber band is that it pretty much falls apart on its own after a few months.
Shane

gunnar429

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2016, 11:27:12 AM »
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

So do you hold the scion in place, wrap the rubber band tightly, then just wrap buddy tape over the rubber band?

I've done that a couple times, but more often I'll wrap the scion/junction first with grafting tape as tight as I can without disturbing it first. Sometimes that's not very tight. Then I'll wrap the rubber band, really cranking it.

One thing I really like about the rubber band is that it pretty much falls apart on its own after a few months.
Ok, will have to try that method eventually.  I have trouble with cleft grafts, when I am trying to tighten the union, they seem to pop up and out of the wedge. 
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

shaneatwell

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2016, 12:23:26 PM »
Exactly. Rubber band has really helped me in that regard.
Shane

gunnar429

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2016, 12:40:21 PM »
Exactly. Rubber band has really helped me in that regard.

is there a specific type of rubber band that you recommend?
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

ricshaw

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2016, 12:54:46 PM »
Where do you usually get parafilm tape in America? I Mean supermarket? Drugstore? I haven't seen it here in Mexico, maybe I haven't look in the right place, what is the most common use for it, is designed specially for grafted?

I found it on Amazon.com. There is parafilm sold for grafting and I think there is parafilm used in "labs".

See:  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parafilm

ricshaw

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2016, 01:00:54 PM »
Exactly. Rubber band has really helped me in that regard.

is there a specific type of rubber band that you recommend?

Jeff, I just find a larger rubber band, about 1/8" wide, with good stretch, and cut it. It needs to be long enough that you can "tie" the end after wrapping the graft.

ricshaw

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2016, 01:05:31 PM »

One thing I really like about the rubber band is that it pretty much falls apart on its own after a few months.

And if it does not fall off after a couple of months, I just cut it with a sharp knife and it comes off easy.

Andrew

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2016, 02:03:08 PM »
I would agree with most of the other post and I'll give me two cents. I originally grafted using electrical tape and I would rate it as Ok at best. I found that after awhile it would start cutting into the tree and I would than have to cut it off with a razor blade, sometimes doing more damage. I normally had about a 60 percent success rate using this method. Rubber bands seems to be working a lot better, they actively push the rootstock and scion together with a even force and seem to pop off by themselves when they are ready. Here is a recent batch that I wouldn't be surprised if I get a 100 percent success rate with.


« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 02:09:06 PM by Andrew »

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2016, 07:16:37 PM »
I wrap grafts with a wide rubber band material that is special for grafting. I think I got that from Orchard valley supply. They also have bulk rolls of parafilm.
Peter

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2016, 07:29:46 PM »
I'm with Peter, the special rubber bands for grafting are nice to work with. The ones I have used in the past were a little thinner than typical rubber bands so they were easy to pull tight without putting too much strain on small rootstocks.  The way I was taught to use them was to slip the end under a wrap & pull them tight to secure.  It seems like these special grafting bands probably had fine powder applied to them to aide in them slipping when you try to pull them tight like this.

I was not able to locate these anywhere earlier to get them so I have been using regular rubber bands from an office supply store.  The heavier thickness and the lack of powder makes these much harder to work with and I did have problems snapping rootstock when trying to work with very small rootstock material.  I'll have to check out Orchard Valley Supply.

John

EvilFruit

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2016, 07:39:37 AM »
Noob Question

Which parafilm should I get ?.
This or


This
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Solko

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2016, 12:20:23 PM »
I got the laboratory roll, because I couldn't find that other one in the Netherlands. It works fine, I now do all my grafting with it. I cut strips of it, 1cm wide and accross the width of the big roll. First I strech it and wrap it two times, then I wrap it while twisting it (I just keep my hand in the same position and circle around the graft) to apply tight pressure on the graft, and then I come back to the same area, stretch the rest of the tape and wrap the scion in it to seal it. Works great.

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2016, 12:46:19 PM »
I got the laboratory roll, because I couldn't find that other one in the Netherlands. It works fine, I now do all my grafting with it. I cut strips of it, 1cm wide and accross the width of the big roll. First I strech it and wrap it two times, then I wrap it while twisting it (I just keep my hand in the same position and circle around the graft) to apply tight pressure on the graft, and then I come back to the same area, stretch the rest of the tape and wrap the scion in it to seal it. Works great.

I also use the Parafilm M and it works fine.  I believe it was a bit cheaper than the Parafilm nursery grafting tape when I was looking into it.  Just need to cut it into strips like how Solko described, which might be a hassle for some.
James

ricshaw

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2016, 10:50:33 PM »
I have tried both. I like the nursery parafilm better.

jmc96

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2016, 12:25:36 AM »
 I have used plumbers teflon tape when I've had nothing else, with great results. I don't unspool and break a length off, I unwind it directly off the spool as I'm winding it onto the graft, and it sticks to itself eliminating tie off knots. I have bought grafted plants with this material still covering the graft, so it appears  it could be left on. There is a yellow heavier gas tape available if the white version is too soft.

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2016, 01:17:41 AM »
What works for me is Buddy Tape (preferred because it breaks less) or Parafilm (the 1/2" wide nursery version) on the first layer to seal the graft, followed by 1/2" white, vinyl tape (A.M. Leonard has it and it's cheap) to apply the pressure in the places that others are using rubber bands.  Very clean when all is said, and done the you can label the free end of the white tape with a permanent marker with the variety grafted and the date.  Those simple labels last for as long as a year or more, but should be replaced with something more permanent when you are positive the graft has taken.

Removing electrical tape sounds like it has the potential for problems.  Buddy Tape, Parafilm, and grafting tape are all readily available on the internet and work great.  The regular old green nursery tape is fine, too, instead of the grafting tape, but is slightly harder to work with than the thinner, white vinyl grafting tape.

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Re: Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2016, 07:11:30 PM »
I'd use the narrower grafting parafilm between the two. They're the same material so get the cheaper one. I don't know why the M (medical?) one is so popular on ebay. Maybe people get them for free from clinics and resell.

Asian plastic wrap is the cheapest and works well for them. It's the same material as the food wrap, just narrower. If you use the M tape by cutting it into narrow strips, you can do the same with food wraps as well. The narrower rolls are just more convenient so I prefer those.

 

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