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Author Topic: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.  (Read 7455 times)

Guanabanus

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 12:34:30 AM »
energy, strength
Har

MarinFla

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 11:49:24 PM »
so u finally made it to stickydom huh, jackwhisper???  how's it feel 2 b famous   8) ?

o btw, forgot to mention, what's up with the used pamper looking pots???  where did u get those diaper looking grow bags??

that's a thrifty man, who even uses a soiled diaper to house a seedling!!
 ;D

but for real though, where u get those Bo graggz?
Adam... your sense of humor is more wicked than your propagation skills LOL !!

ASaffron

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2012, 12:04:27 AM »
Yes!

Glad I got a laugh out of u Marin!

I'm not just a crazy cut up, I cut up plants like crazy as well.

but my first love was comedy!

I'm a real comedian...just not going on stage much anymore...growing edible plants has been a much more wholesome and rewarding endeavor.

 :)

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2012, 08:43:23 AM »
Hi Fellow Members,
Here's an update on the seedlings that I grafted and the seedling that was grafted in the vid :)

This seedling is the most vigorous of them all and will be pugged to start to produce them branches.




Seedling from the vid...starting to push :)


Take care,
Steven

Steven Silva

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Adacaosky

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2012, 09:39:49 AM »
Awesome job!!!!  ;D ;D ;) I wish I had the success rates you have. Someday... LOL! Tried it with mangoes, but alas..... no success at all out of 12 tries....  :-[ :-\ :'( :'( :'( That's a lot of mango seeds.
Chris

zands

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2012, 09:40:18 AM »
Hi Fellow Members,
Here's an update on the seedlings that I grafted and the seedling that was grafted in the vid :)

This seedling is the most vigorous of them all and will be pugged to start to produce them branches.




Seedling from the vid...starting to push :)


Take care,
Steven


I was inspired by your video using low tech materials same as a video from India. So I copied your technique.
  • I did epicotyl cleft graft
  • tied real tight with a thin rubber band got package at the Dollar Store
  • then rubber band gets wrapped with thin string to hold it in place for sure
  • then painted graft with latex paint to seal in the moisture (I had white on hand but any color will do but black or dark ones)
  • each plant then tented with a clear plastic produce bag from supermarket
  • and put under shade
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 09:43:55 AM by zands »
There it was all the time, staring you in the face. Buried within the message itself, is the key..

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2012, 10:40:31 AM »
Awesome job!!!!  ;D ;D ;) I wish I had the success rates you have. Someday... LOL! Tried it with mangoes, but alas..... no success at all out of 12 tries....  :-[ :-\ :'( :'( :'( That's a lot of mango seeds.

Hi Chris,
Thanks :). If you only know how Avocado kick my ass on several occasions :'(...now, I am boss ;D

Never, never, never give up on something that you cannot  succeed with the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd attempt of grafting!!! I got to confess :-[ I have never had any success with mangoes too :'( I won't give up...the culprit of this ordeal is the seeds of the supermarket bought mangoes, that give a lousy rootstock >:( A friend sent some mature seeds from ripe fruits and I am totally amazed with the vigour and health of these seedlings...these are not for grafting. I want to plant them out and see how long they take to produce  :)

BTW what method did you use for grafting your mangoes?

Don't discard the rootstocks, let them grow and try again next year or when the rootstock is thick enough for grafting :) Good luck, Chris ;)

Hi Fellow Members,
Here's an update on the seedlings that I grafted and the seedling that was grafted in the vid :)
This seedling is the most vigorous of them all and will be pugged to start to produce them branches.
Seedling from the vid...starting to push :)
Take care,
Steven
I was inspired by your video using low tech materials same as a video from India. So I copied your technique.
  • I did epicotyl cleft graft
  • tied real tight with a thin rubber band got package at the Dollar Store
  • then rubber band gets wrapped with thin string to hold it in place for sure
  • then painted graft with latex paint to seal in the moisture (I had white on hand but any color will do but black or dark ones)
  • each plant then tented with a clear plastic produce bag from supermarket
  • and put under shade

Hi Zands,
 :) I am most happy that I inspired you to give this method a shot :) since we are going to use the material only once...might as well use low tech materials for the job...as you can see, they work mighty fine ;D

Thanks for sharing...on how you did yours 8) It's a recipe for success ;D Please do keep us posted :) Fingers crossed ;)
 

Steven Silva

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Adacaosky

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2012, 02:39:44 PM »
Hi Steven, I did epicotyl cleft graft on the mangoes. Some are sending side shoots out to replace the dead graft. :'(  On the up side, i'll use them to practice more. lol Wish me luck!

chris
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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2012, 02:46:52 PM »
I also did two day before yesterday,  not sure if they will take, timing seems to be the key. the seedlings were a bit over 2 weeks old,  and the leaves were already turning green from the copper stage.

anyway I am trying with a LZ and a MC. i guess ill know in a few days.
William
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Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2012, 05:13:32 PM »
Hi Steven, I did epicotyl cleft graft on the mangoes. Some are sending side shoots out to replace the dead graft. :'(  On the up side, i'll use them to practice more. lol Wish me luck!
Chris
Hi Again, Chris ;D
Avocado also does resprout if the graft was not successful...after two weeks you can graft again.
When you are going to graft again...Use a scion that is the same thickness as the rootstock...the buds must be nice and swollen. Don't forget to bag them ;)

Good Luck and keep us posted :) Hopefully, this time you will get them grafts to push ;)

I also did two day before yesterday,  not sure if they will take, timing seems to be the key. the seedlings were a bit over 2 weeks old,  and the leaves were already turning green from the copper stage.
anyway I am trying with a LZ and a MC. i guess ill know in a few days.

Hi William,
I have done this graft with a 3 month old Avocado, which was the first time ever doing epi's and it was successful :) Older rootstock will do just fine  8) Hopefully yours will also start to push :). I'm not sure how long mango epi's take to push...I reckon it's around the same time as avocado, which is 2 weeks for some action.

Good Luck and keep us posted  ;)
Steven Silva

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jcaldeira

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2012, 11:49:51 PM »
Steven, thank you for the thoughtful video, photos and information on how you graft avocados. 

Coincidentally, I cleft-grafted 18 seedlings last month using a method similar to yours and only had 7 'takes'.  When I compare my method to yours, in search of my problem, I can only see that I tended to use longer scions, while yours seem to only be, maybe, 7 cm (3") long.  Also, I wrapped the scions with plastic kitchen wrap instead of a bag.  My seedlings were in a 50% shadehouse.

I'd appreciate your comments on some aspects of grafting:
1) Do you keep the young grafts in total shade for the first few weeks, or partial shade?
2) Do you have success with scions that have swollen side buds but clip off the growing/leafing terminal bud?
3) What is your thinking on the ideal scion?  Which scions should we avoid?  Do you choose very green wood or older wood?

Thanks,
John
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 12:42:23 AM by jcaldeira »

Jsvand5

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2012, 11:55:46 AM »
I tried one today on a avocado seedling that was only about 3" tall. It was just putting out it's first leaves. I would have waited longer but my scions have been in the frigde for a couple weeks so I wanted to get at least one going. I think it matched up pretty well. The only hard part was wrapping up the graft without screwing up the alignment.

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2012, 02:41:53 PM »
Steven, thank you for the thoughtful video, photos and information on how you graft avocados. 
Coincidentally, I cleft-grafted 18 seedlings last month using a method similar to yours and only had 7 'takes'.  When I compare my method to yours, in search of my problem, I can only see that I tended to use longer scions, while yours seem to only be, maybe, 7 cm (3") long.  Also, I wrapped the scions with plastic kitchen wrap instead of a bag.  My seedlings were in a 50% shadehouse.
I'd appreciate your comments on some aspects of grafting:
1) Do you keep the young grafts in total shade for the first few weeks, or partial shade?
2) Do you have success with scions that have swollen side buds but clip off the growing/leafing terminal bud?
3) What is your thinking on the ideal scion?  Which scions should we avoid?  Do you choose very green wood or older wood?
Thanks,
John


Hi John,

I am glad i could share this with everyone, who are very much interested to learn how to graft :)

I'm happy to answer any questions on this matter and help fellow members to succeed in grafting. For me grafting in second in line...First is of course, eating them fruits ;D

1) Do you keep the young grafts in total shade for the first few weeks, or partial shade?
I prefer to put the newly grafted seedlings in a semi-shade location, where they get a bit sun in the morning. If they were in a sunny location, the bulid up of heat in the bag will harm the scion.

2) Do you have success with scions that have swollen side buds but clip off the growing/leafing terminal bud?
Yes, these scion are very successful for grafting. I like to use scions that have a maximum of 3-6 buds and a minimum of one per scions. The length of the scions are about 7-5 cm/ 3''-2'' (You nailed it, John ;D ). If a terminal bud is flushing, just clip the terminal growth and use the swollen axillary bud scions for grafting. The second pic above, seedling on the left was grafted with swollen axillary bud scion. The terminal bud of this scion was flushing at the moment of harvest.

3) What is your thinking on the ideal scion?  Which scions should we avoid?  Do you choose very green wood or older wood?
Well, my ideal scions must be harvested when they are mature, swollen in which the buds are about to flush or vegetate.
Old hard wooded scions are not ideal for grafted, in my opinion. These are for flowering and to hold this year's fruit production.
I prefer young-mature green scions over the old hard wooded scions. The old scions are most likely the culprits, with my unsuccessful attempts of grafting avocado. :'(


Check these scions out!

The budwood below are from a tree that is most probably over 30 years old.
On the left; Is old scion and young scion on the right, which both have leaves.


The budwood on the left is not ideal for grafting(old wood). The budwood on the right is ideal for grafting, Which I pruned a branch back in late winter to rejuvenate the branches and have ''fresh'' supply of scions for grafting this season, between spring and mid-summer.

Here's the brunch I pruned back in late winter.


Young trees do not need to be pruned back to rejuvenate the branch for ''fresh'' scions. This scion is from a tree that is around 15 years.


Hopefully this will help you and other fellow members to choose the right scions and succeed in grafting :)

Good luck, John in them future grafts...Hope you get 100% takes, next time you graft :)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 02:46:29 PM by Jackfruitwhisperer69 »
Steven Silva

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Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2012, 02:56:05 PM »
I tried one today on a avocado seedling that was only about 3" tall. It was just putting out it's first leaves. I would have waited longer but my scions have been in the frigde for a couple weeks so I wanted to get at least one going. I think it matched up pretty well. The only hard part was wrapping up the graft without screwing up the alignment.

Hi Jsvand,
Glad you are doing them epi's ;D I prefer to use a rootstock that is around 15cm/6''.  as long as the rootstock has the same thickness of that of the scion...the graft will hopefully succeed :) I keep mine for around six months...couple weeks is no problem ;). Hopefully the seedling you grafted...will start to push in about 2 weeks :) Good luck on them future grafts ;) and don't forget to keep us posted :)
Steven Silva

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jcaldeira

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2012, 12:51:56 AM »
Steven, thanks again for the grafting education.  It's messages such as yours that make the internet so worthwhile.

In my next bunch of avocado and mango grafts, I will work with shorter scions and greener wood. 

My only other problem with grafting is with some of my mango grafts.  Five weeks after grafting, the grafts are alive but not creating new growth.  The buds probably were not swollen enough.  Most of these grafts are on seedlings but also one top-worked tree.

John

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2012, 09:17:26 AM »
Steven, thanks again for the grafting education.  It's messages such as yours that make the internet so worthwhile.

In my next bunch of avocado and mango grafts, I will work with shorter scions and greener wood. 

My only other problem with grafting is with some of my mango grafts.  Five weeks after grafting, the grafts are alive but not creating new growth.  The buds probably were not swollen enough.  Most of these grafts are on seedlings but also one top-worked tree.

John


Hi John,
Thanks for the kind words, I always do my best to help others :)

I have seen a presentation on mango grafting from a friend. If i remember correctly...he said, grafting a mango with a scion(buds) that weren't fully swollen, will heal, but will not push :( 

Grafting Fruit Trees

Ms. Kath from Daleys nursery, explains very well which mango scions should be chosen.

You don't worry, John ;)...you will be a master at grafting in no time :)

Whenever you got any questions related to grafting, Feel free to ask. :)
Steven Silva

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jcaldeira

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2012, 11:17:41 PM »
Steven,

The results of my latest avocado grafting were far more successful than my first.  Your tips helped.  The scions had more swollen buds this time due to rain the prior week, which I think improved the result. Auxilary buds took just as well as the terminal buds, and I can not see any difference between short (2") scions and longer ones (3"-4").  Here are a couple of photos (click photo for a larger image):

Some grafts are flowering!


Some are still to early to call successful, but I think I'm achieving over 80% on approximately 70 grafts.   This will give me enough seedlings to cull out the runts and only plant the most vigorous.


John
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 04:14:11 AM by jcaldeira »

Guanabanus

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2012, 07:33:47 AM »
Remember that grafted plants are no longer "seedlings."
Har

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2012, 09:50:59 AM »
Hi John,

AWESOME they look great ;D Thanks a bunch for an update 8)

I always select the strongest shoot and remove all the weak ones. The selected shot will grow much faster and when it reaches 12in/30cm...I tip them, for them branches to  start to form. Don't throw away those rootstocks that did take...they will sprout again and will be ready for grafting in 2 weeks time or even less. Keep going at it...80% is freak'n awesome, Hope you get 100% next time :)

John, I have found that seedlings and grafted ones that are not root bound...establish much faster than root bound ones. Once them Avo's are totally healed...get them in the soil ASAP  ;)

Thanks for sharing :)
Steven Silva

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jcaldeira

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2012, 11:26:30 AM »
. . . .
I always select the strongest shoot and remove all the weak ones. The selected shot will grow much faster and when it reaches 12in/30cm...I tip them, for them branches to  start to form.
 . . .

What difference does it make if they branch at 4 inches or 12 inches?  I'm hesitant to trim off secondary shoots above the graft because the plants have been lacking leaves for a couple of weeks.  My thinking was to let as many leaves as possible feed the roots.

Tim

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2012, 01:58:55 PM »
Nice going with all them grafts, John.  Hope you have high takes on them.
Tim

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2012, 06:36:05 PM »
. . . .
I always select the strongest shoot and remove all the weak ones. The selected shot will grow much faster and when it reaches 12in/30cm...I tip them, for them branches to  start to form.
 . . .

What difference does it make if they branch at 4 inches or 12 inches?  I'm hesitant to trim off secondary shoots above the graft because the plants have been lacking leaves for a couple of weeks.  My thinking was to let as many leaves as possible feed the roots.

Hi again,
No difference at all, in my opinion. I have never lost a plant by remove weaker shots...the biggest shot will grow much faster with the extra energy. I find it most beneficial and any wounds from removing them less vigorous shots, will heal very fast. Don't forget about the seed that is full of food to help it's growth. Try this with a few, then you will be able to see if it's beneficial or not :)
Steven Silva

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Guanabanus

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2012, 12:47:00 AM »
Leaving some secondary shoots is OK if those shoots have had their buds removed.  But if the avocado seed is still providing nutrients, you don't need to bother to allow extra leaves to stay.
Har

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2012, 12:51:12 AM »
As Steven says, plant your grafted avocados in the ground soon. 

I would rather a fresh, fast-growing one-gallon grafted avocado than a 30-gallon one that has been in the nursery three years.
Har

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Re: Epicotyl Grafting...Update.
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2012, 01:55:39 AM »
As Steven says, plant your grafted avocados in the ground soon. 

I would rather a fresh, fast-growing one-gallon grafted avocado than a 30-gallon one that has been in the nursery three years.

Thanks for the advice.  I'm learning a lot this year from this forum and also from what is happening "on the ground" with my small farm.  Next year I'll be doing similar propagation of avocado, mango and citrus and intend to get both mango and avocado in the ground earlier, even if the mango is not grafted yet.

During the next couple of weeks I'll be clearing the brush in the planting area for the avocado.  Hope to have most planted in a month or so.  Watering until the rainy season (Nov/Dec start) will be a chore, though!

John 

 

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