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Author Topic: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides  (Read 5823 times)

pj1881 (Patrick)

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A topic started as a quick reference for those who are concerned that an infestation may require chemical use!

When is is time to apply these chemicals?

What will happen if you just leave the issues alone?

What happens to the beneficials when you use chemicals?

Can a yard become a self suppoting ecosystem in time that will control insect populations?

Is the Honey Bees demise being caused by chemicals?

Are home owners polluting more than huge farms?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 06:41:43 AM by pj1881 »

pj1881 (Patrick)

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murahilin

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 08:53:43 AM »
Sevin (carbaryl) is rated as a likely carcinogen by the EPA, so those of you who enjoy "drenching" your soil with sevin to stop the root weevils should really reconsider.

Also, an industrial accident in the production of carbaryl caused over 11,000 deaths and 500,000 injuries in the Bhopal Disaster.


pj1881 (Patrick)

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 09:38:10 AM »
I notice a lot of things are only Carcinogenic in California... Add that to the fact that its hard to ship there!! What are they doing to you folks!!

Kidding of course...

fruitlovers

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 04:30:43 PM »
Think this is a very worthwhile thread. I think there is a tendency to jump to the strongest, most powerful killing device, when one of us finds a bug on our precious plant...you know...the NUKE IT! syndrome. Even if you are not organic in your approach to growing still i think it's best to do a gradual approach: try softer techniques first, and then if that doesn't work try stonger measures. In the end remember you will end up eating what you produce. Also often in the application you can get a drop or two of the stuff on your hands, or breathe some of it. Remember that with some of these chemicals you only need parts per million to have a adverse reaction to them. And some of these negative reactions don't show up for years later.
Oscar
Oscar

bsbullie

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 07:15:01 PM »
Sevin (carbaryl) is rated as a likely carcinogen by the EPA, so those of you who enjoy "drenching" your soil with sevin to stop the root weevils should really reconsider.

Also, an industrial accident in the production of carbaryl caused over 11,000 deaths and 500,000 injuries in the Bhopal Disaster.

murahilin - whats your opinion on using Imidacloprid (Bayers made for for fruits and citrus) ?
- Rob

GwenninPR

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 08:12:58 AM »
I mainly stick to insecticidal soap, but do hit  severely white fly infested trees with Malathion from time to time.

I haven't done anything yet for the root weevils, but I see Sevin is evil.  What else do people use?  I was hoping there was some kind of "Milky spore" solution for the grub phase.

Felipe

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 10:45:56 AM »
In the end remember you will end up eating what you produce. Also often in the application you can get a drop or two of the stuff on your hands, or breathe some of it.  And some of these negative reactions don't show up for years later.
Oscar

I absolutelly agree! Remeber that the industry wants us to buy all the expensive products, so they are not interested in us being aware of the risks and danger of using those chemicals...

murahilin

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 04:34:14 PM »
murahilin - whats your opinion on using Imidacloprid (Bayers made for for fruits and citrus) ?

From what I've read, Imidacloprid does not seem as dangerous to people as carbaryl is, I still don't think it should be used by homeowners. People want their trees to be these perfect little specimens without a single leaf out of place and if a single bug bites the leaf they want to go nuclear and kill every living thing in sight. That is not necessary. There are usually safer, more natural remedies to most plant problems and quite often, leaving the tree alone will do the trick. Keeping your trees healthy (fertilization, watering etc.) will usually keep the tree from dying from a few little bug problems.

fruitlovers

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 04:53:37 PM »
murahilin - whats your opinion on using Imidacloprid (Bayers made for for fruits and citrus) ?

From what I've read, Imidacloprid does not seem as dangerous to people as carbaryl is, I still don't think it should be used by homeowners. People want their trees to be these perfect little specimens without a single leaf out of place and if a single bug bites the leaf they want to go nuclear and kill every living thing in sight. That is not necessary. There are usually safer, more natural remedies to most plant problems and quite often, leaving the tree alone will do the trick. Keeping your trees healthy (fertilization, watering etc.) will usually keep the tree from dying from a few little bug problems.

In the foliar spray thread it was mentioned how healthy plants tend to attract less bugs. I see this a lot in then nursery, for example, have 20 potted plants of very same kind planted at same time. There is one sickly individual and all the bugs are on it and leave the other plants alone. It seems that healthy plants put out some kind of repellants that usually keep bugs at bay. Some plants once their leaves are chewed or are otherwise stressed will put out even more of these natural repellants to keep bugs from chewing them. So nature has its own natural defenses. To be sure there are times we need to intervene when bugs can and do get out of hand, so it's good to be observant. Just don't freak out over one little hole on a leaf, or you will soon have an ulcer! HAHA  You should realize also that when you spray strong chemicals you break down some of these natural defenses, especially natural predators. If you do use chemicals try to use ones that are designed for your specific pest rather ones that are wide spectrum killers.
Oscar
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jb_fla

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 03:20:04 PM »
No matter how healthy, I find it difficult to keep the asian leaf minor off my citrus.  I have heard that the effect is only cosmetic, but I don't belive that to be the case.  I wonder how long Imidacloprid stays within the plant, and more importantly, the percentage that is absorbed into the fruit itself.

fruitlovers

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 12:30:41 AM »
No matter how healthy, I find it difficult to keep the asian leaf minor off my citrus.  I have heard that the effect is only cosmetic, but I don't belive that to be the case.  I wonder how long Imidacloprid stays within the plant, and more importantly, the percentage that is absorbed into the fruit itself.

Citrus leaf minor was a very big problem when they first arrived here about 10 years ago. After about 1 year the problem started to lessen on its own. Now i hardly ever see them. I never sprayed for them, but obviously there is some kind of biololgical control, something parasitizing and controlling their populations.
Oscar
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MarinFla

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 11:51:42 AM »
I don't know if any of my fellow South Floridians saw in the Home & Garden section of the Sunday Sun Sentinel---garden writer Robert Haehle reported that Bayer Advanced Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable Insect Control is a systemic pesticide that makes every part of the tree poisonous implying that if you spray it on your trees while it has fruit on it or shortly before fruiting you are probably eating this poison. That is a scary thought as I have done this :( The sad thing is that neem oil has not been working very well so I have resorted now to malathion and this finally  seems to be working

fruitlovers

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 05:09:24 PM »
I don't know if any of my fellow South Floridians saw in the Home & Garden section of the Sunday Sun Sentinel---garden writer Robert Haehle reported that Bayer Advanced Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable Insect Control is a systemic pesticide that makes every part of the tree poisonous implying that if you spray it on your trees while it has fruit on it or shortly before fruiting you are probably eating this poison. That is a scary thought as I have done this :( The sad thing is that neem oil has not been working very well so I have resorted now to malathion and this finally  seems to be working

Again, neem oil is not a bug killer, it keeps bugs from being able to reproduce. So if you are expecting them to all drop off your tre you will be disappointed. It is a long term solution as existing bugs will not be able to reproduce, sol lowers bug populations. On some bugs neem also works as a repellant. I think it's good to use neem in addition to something that knocks em down, that way you get short term and long term effect.
Oscar
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MarinFla

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 05:28:27 PM »
I don't know if any of my fellow South Floridians saw in the Home & Garden section of the Sunday Sun Sentinel---garden writer Robert Haehle reported that Bayer Advanced Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable Insect Control is a systemic pesticide that makes every part of the tree poisonous implying that if you spray it on your trees while it has fruit on it or shortly before fruiting you are probably eating this poison. That is a scary thought as I have done this :( The sad thing is that neem oil has not been working very well so I have resorted now to malathion and this finally  seems to be working

Again, neem oil is not a bug killer, it keeps bugs from being able to reproduce. So if you are expecting them to all drop off your tre you will be disappointed. It is a long term solution as existing bugs will not be able to reproduce, sol lowers bug populations. On some bugs neem also works as a repellant. I think it's good to use neem in addition to something that knocks em down, that way you get short term and long term effect.
Oscar

I was having such a difficult time eradicating the scale and mealy bugs that were causing my mango trees to become completely black with sooty mold to the point of causing thick branches to die. The neem oil helped a bit but wasn't the solution. I tried the Bayer but that didn't complete the task either. From my last inspection since the malathion application it seems to have worked and the sooty mold is drying up and coming off like parchment sheets. I was feeling frustrated at how long it took for me to get this under control. Someone should incorporate a a company, call it the Mango Doctor and make house calls! I would have called 'the doctor' :)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 05:31:15 PM by MarinFla »

fruitlovers

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2012, 05:32:33 PM »
I don't know if any of my fellow South Floridians saw in the Home & Garden section of the Sunday Sun Sentinel---garden writer Robert Haehle reported that Bayer Advanced Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable Insect Control is a systemic pesticide that makes every part of the tree poisonous implying that if you spray it on your trees while it has fruit on it or shortly before fruiting you are probably eating this poison. That is a scary thought as I have done this :( The sad thing is that neem oil has not been working very well so I have resorted now to malathion and this finally  seems to be working

Again, neem oil is not a bug killer, it keeps bugs from being able to reproduce. So if you are expecting them to all drop off your tre you will be disappointed. It is a long term solution as existing bugs will not be able to reproduce, sol lowers bug populations. On some bugs neem also works as a repellant. I think it's good to use neem in addition to something that knocks em down, that way you get short term and long term effect.
Oscar

I was having such a difficult time eradicating the scale and mealy bugs that were causing my mango trees to become completely black with sooty mold to the point of causing thick branches to die. The neem oil helped a bit but wasn't the solution. I tried the Bayer but that didn't complete the task either. From my last inspection since the malathion application it seems to have worked and the sooty mold is drying up and coming off like parchment sheets. I was feeling frustrated at how long it took for me to get this under control. Someone should incorporate a a company, call it the Mango Doctor and make house calls! I would have called 'the doctor' :)

I think that's the basic idea behind the master gardener programs. Don't know if they have it in your area, but it's exactly as you describe, but not specific to mangos, any plants. How good the service is will ofcourse depend on the people manning the phones.
Oscar
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MarinFla

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2012, 05:49:25 PM »
Oscar, They have a fairly good extension program here with many master gardeners. They can take calls and emails but making house calls- diagnosing and treating e problem for you is not an option.  I knew what was causing my issues. I just had to keep on trying different products until I found one that actually completely fixed the problem so the trees could start to get healthy again. It just seemed to take forever. Or at least it felt that way! New scale hasn't returned and I also haven't seen any mealy bugs either in over 2 weeks now. Some of the trees are so much better that they are now starting to push new growth for the first time since this all started. I hated using such harsh stuff but the infestation was really bad. One of my mango trees (The Glenn) had to be drastically pruned back because of how bad this was. It is a happy camper now I'm happy to say. Marin

ericalynne

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2012, 10:29:06 PM »
Any pesticide that says it is "systemic" means that it goes into all parts of the plant/tree, including the fruit. Seems like not a good idea to me. I have had leaf miner in my citrus, but have discovered that when a tree is healthy and growing, it outgrows the miners. So I will dose the suffering tree with a hit of foliar fertilizer and that seems to work. For scale, which I have had on mangoes and on my charichuela, I just either smoosh them off with my fingers (small amount), or wash them off with soapy water on a paper towel (larger infestation.) Repeat in a few days to catch the ones that were too little to see the first time around. The biggest insect pest I have had here in Venus is the lubber grasshoppers. They are so big they will eat off a whole young shoot, by chewing straight through the stem. Makes me so mad!!!! Now in spring, I hold grasshopper patrols in the morning while it is still cool. The youngsters are black and roost together in the grass. I can kill hundreds with soapy water and my hands. If I am vigilant in the spring, I have almost no problems all summer. I have not seen the need for more powerful poisons than soapy water. That said, I have not tried things like low chill apples and peaches...I hear they need lots of insecticide.

Soren

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Re: Know Your Poisons- Information On Commonly Used Pest and Herbicides
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2012, 09:38:41 AM »
Study indicates decline in bee populations related to pesticides; http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Pesticides+responsible+decline+studies/6380560/story.html
Søren
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