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Author Topic: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?  (Read 14177 times)

z_willus_d

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2018, 11:26:32 AM »
Any updates on the Aaravaipa avocado.  I'm just curious if anyone has set and/or tasted fruit from this tree yet?

TucsonKen

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2018, 12:21:13 PM »
I try to follow it pretty closely, and don't know of anyone with much information to share. There are periodic discussions about it on https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhxFruitGrowers/ and https://www.facebook.com/groups/533282183509076/. A guy who inherited property with a mature, fruit-bearing tree grafted by his father is in the process of figuring out its optimum cultural requirements, and didn't pay adequate enough attention to it last year to get a harvest. The trees being grown by people who have purchased them commercially are reportedly still too young to have produced fruit, although several say they've had fruit set this year. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be by Julie Frink discusses Aravaipa briefly in answer to a question just past the one hour mark; she describes it as "Okay, not bad," but gives her opinion that if you're in a good avocado-growing location where cold tolerance isn't an issue, you probably have better choices.

z_willus_d

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2018, 03:09:58 PM »
I try to follow it pretty closely, and don't know of anyone with much information to share. There are periodic discussions about it on https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhxFruitGrowers/ and https://www.facebook.com/groups/533282183509076/. A guy who inherited property with a mature, fruit-bearing tree grafted by his father is in the process of figuring out its optimum cultural requirements, and didn't pay adequate enough attention to it last year to get a harvest. The trees being grown by people who have purchased them commercially are reportedly still too young to have produced fruit, although several say they've had fruit set this year. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be by Julie Frink discusses Aravaipa briefly in answer to a question just past the one hour mark; she describes it as "Okay, not bad," but gives her opinion that if you're in a good avocado-growing location where cold tolerance isn't an issue, you probably have better choices.
Thanks for the links Ken.  I'm looking for the best option for an in ground Zone 9B Avocado tree that will not receive any thermal protection, but also produces decent fruit.  My current plan is a top-worked Stewart Avocado that has a local Duke grafted on.  The graft is just waking up, but it's by no means a done deal.

TucsonKen

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2018, 03:46:08 PM »
Good luck--it sounds like we're on a similar quest. I'm trying several varieties in hopes of comparing them some day, but so far only my Wilma and Opal have gotten big enough to fruit. The others range from newly-grafted to two or three years old. I'm very interested to see how the Duke performs. Mine is just a few inches tall, but in the '40s there was a commercial grove with a couple hundred avocado trees located about a mile south of my house (NW Tucson). I don't know what other varieties were grown, but some of them were Dukes, and they reportedly produced higher quality fruit here in Tucson than in California. I know of a handful of other local trees that are said to produce good fruit, but have not personally sampled them--Zutano, Mexicola Grande, and Mexicola. I've also tasted a few end-of-the-season avocados from a very large Mexican seedling growing at a midtown monastery. It's okay, but I wasn't wild about it.

CA Hockey

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2018, 02:17:30 AM »
The optimist in me just wants to believe that thereís a place for zutano in the edible avocado spectrum, but I just canít bring myself to believe it. I have one in a small pot that I lug around to pollinate everything else. Thatís about it havenít been impressed by the ones Iíve tastes from the local farmers market.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2018, 07:54:51 AM »
I'm looking for the best option for an in ground Zone 9B Avocado tree that will not receive any thermal protection, but also produces decent fruit.  My current plan is a top-worked Stewart Avocado that has a local Duke grafted on.  The graft is just waking up, but it's by no means a done deal.

Sounds like you got that one upside down.  Stewart is twice the size of Mexicola, most cold hardy of any variety, very rich flavor and great production.  Highly recommended by every one I've conversed with and Julie Frink.  I'm getting sticks next week of it from a SoCal grower. 

Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2018, 07:57:57 AM »
This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be by Julie Frink discusses Aravaipa briefly in answer to a question just past the one hour mark; she describes it as "Okay, not bad," but gives her opinion that if you're in a good avocado-growing location where cold tolerance isn't an issue, you probably have better choices.

Yeah, she's not too impressed about it but I believe she also had the usual caveat - "if it's all you can grow......"

Here in Texas most growers only use the Tex-Mex varieties (those that were sourced in south Texas) like Opal, Pryor aka "Fantastic", Joey, Wilma, Brazos Belle, etc. as rootstock. 

TucsonKen

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2018, 12:40:46 PM »
If, as you say, "in Texas most growers only use the Tex-Mex varieties ... as rootstock", I'd love to know which varieties they're grafting onto them. If they're working so well for you in your climate, I can only imagine how great they'll perform for us here in Arizona! I'm also curious about Stewart being the "most cold hardy of any variety." Dave Wilson (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf) and a few other online sources rate it as hardy to 24 degrees, which is pretty good, but I'm not finding anything to indicate that it's the hardiest of them all.

z_willus_d

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2018, 01:43:16 PM »
I'm looking for the best option for an in ground Zone 9B Avocado tree that will not receive any thermal protection, but also produces decent fruit.  My current plan is a top-worked Stewart Avocado that has a local Duke grafted on.  The graft is just waking up, but it's by no means a done deal.

Sounds like you got that one upside down.  Stewart is twice the size of Mexicola, most cold hardy of any variety, very rich flavor and great production.  Highly recommended by every one I've conversed with and Julie Frink.  I'm getting sticks next week of it from a SoCal grower.
If The Duke takes, I'll try and develop two main branches, one Duke and the other Stewart.  From what I've seen, the Stewart is a really ugly tree.  You know how beautiful the Duke can become from the pics I posted earlier, though that was from an ancient and likely ungrafted tree.  Since this tree is going in the front yard, I was hoping for something a tad less gangling than the Stewart.  But as a beggar, I can't be so choosy.  A tree that isn't suited for the cold temps here but I believe is a better looker would be Reed.  I can't seem to source one in Northern CA.  How did you get yours in Texas?  It seems the inter-node distance on Reed is shortened, and it's a nice columnar tree that could be shaped to look worthy of a front yard perch.

z_willus_d

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2018, 01:47:59 PM »
If, as you say, "in Texas most growers only use the Tex-Mex varieties ... as rootstock", I'd love to know which varieties they're grafting onto them. If they're working so well for you in your climate, I can only imagine how great they'll perform for us here in Arizona! I'm also curious about Stewart being the "most cold hardy of any variety." Dave Wilson (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf) and a few other online sources rate it as hardy to 24 degrees, which is pretty good, but I'm not finding anything to indicate that it's the hardiest of them all.

Yeah, regarding the Stewart, I have two young seedlings that I purchased from a local nursery (a couple weeks apart) this past Winter around the time when we had a freezing spell down to ~18F for several days.  I can see how the Stewart leaves took the cold better than other varieties I purchased around the same time, but they still crisped up ultimately.  I guess the point is that the trunks didn't completely freeze through and die back.  I think age and health have a lot to do with an Avocado's cold resistance.  A young seedling of any variety will suffer in cold, but something well established and more mature will be quicker to bounce back and show resilience

z_willus_d

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2018, 03:54:20 PM »
Here are a couple pics of my Duke Venier Grafts.  Maybe the first one will survive.  No life from the others.






Young Water sprouts.  Possible these are sucking the life out of the grafts above?  Should I hack 'em off?


Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2018, 08:08:20 AM »
I'm also curious about Stewart being the "most cold hardy of any variety." Dave Wilson (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf) and a few other online sources rate it as hardy to 24 degrees, which is pretty good, but I'm not finding anything to indicate that it's the hardiest of them all.


A mature Stewart with a thick trunk is reported to be cold hardy into the teens.  Julie Frink said it's the "most cold hardy" in this excellent variety paper she did. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s46Wp0xUMscCvQ2wn78aeAFhhXIUpNB7/view

All bets are off if you have temps of 75F one afternoon and an arctic blast hits and it gets into the low 20's by dawn which happens often in Texas.  For example, I hit 18F in my greenhouse in January and all citrus, a Reed, Gwen and a Oro Negro are coming back strong.  Why?  Because they were subjected to low 30's for days before that drop.  I'm chincy when it comes to propane gas.  I have my heater's day setpoint around 35F and night setpoint at 34F.   To have a pure Guatemalan like Reed take 18F for any period is a miracle.   I have quite a few others that are shooting shoots from the lower trunk, the area that was covered in a mulch of pine needles and dead leaves.  I soaked the soil well with Magnabon CS2005 (systemic copper) after the freeze.  It may have helped ward off any rot. 

Reed is at 2:00 in this shot.  It's actually about 5' X 5' where back in late January there was nothing left but stumps.



Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2018, 08:11:36 AM »
Young Water sprouts.  Possible these are sucking the life out of the grafts above?  Should I hack 'em off?


Yes.   Hack off anything that is higher than the graft union.  it's an issue of apical dominance and your new graft/shoots should dominate in that regard.  I usually keep a few "nurse" leaves on.

I've had excellent results with side veneer grafts on avocado.  Cherimoya too, as of late.  Here's a Reed in 2012 that quickly grew to 10' which is the height I kept it at.



Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2018, 08:15:38 AM »
How did I get Reed?  Three times I ordered sticks from U.C.R.   Here's an example of an invoice.   Sticks were free.  I had to pay FedX shipping.  It's my understanding that recent experiences dealing with them have not been too favorable. 



TucsonKen

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2018, 09:48:04 AM »
Young Water sprouts.  Possible these are sucking the life out of the grafts above?  Should I hack 'em off?


Yes.   Hack off anything that is higher than the graft union.  it's an issue of apical dominance and your new graft/shoots should dominate in that regard.  I usually keep a few "nurse" leaves on.

I've had excellent results with side veneer grafts on avocado.  Cherimoya too, as of late.  Here's a Reed in 2012 that quickly grew to 10' which is the height I kept it at.



A very useful list--thanks for posting the link! I suspect she means Stewart is the most cold hardy of the trees she's comparing on her list, rather than the hardiest of all varieties in existence, but if she rates it that strongly I would definitely like to give it a try. Anything that needs greenhouse protection is certainly not going to survive in my yard.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2018, 10:40:08 AM »

A very useful list--thanks for posting the link! I suspect she means Stewart is the most cold hardy of the trees she's comparing on her list, rather than the hardiest of all varieties in existence, but if she rates it that strongly I would definitely like to give it a try. Anything that needs greenhouse protection is certainly not going to survive in my yard.

Zone 8 for me and I might one outdoors.  Have a friend who said he witnessed a Mexicola survive single digits.  Have no info other than that.

Stewart is reported to be a seedling of Mexicola.  Bigger fruit and better taste "so they say".

joehewitt

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2018, 02:16:51 PM »
We were talking about Aravaipa over on the CRFG Facebook group and one fellow chimed in to say he had tasted it and it's very good and similar to Fuerte. So there's another data point for you.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2018, 02:41:47 PM »
We were talking about Aravaipa over on the CRFG Facebook group and one fellow chimed in to say he had tasted it and it's very good and similar to Fuerte. So there's another data point for you.

Thanks!

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2018, 09:54:14 PM »
We were talking about Aravaipa over on the CRFG Facebook group and one fellow chimed in to say he had tasted it and it's very good and similar to Fuerte. So there's another data point for you.

Thanks for the heads-up, joehewitt. I wanted to find out a little more, so I contacted the guy who tasted it. Here is his response:

"Hi Ken, I'm a former chairman of the San Diego CRFG group.  One of our elders has a 10-12 foot tree here.  It produces a fruit that is very close to a Fuerte in every respect, thin skinned, small-medium seed, good flavor, creamy, etc.  I was not expecting it to be a good taster due to the cold hardiness (you don't typically get both).  Growth habit seems "normal" not lateral or columnar, but balanced...Check out my page if you want more from me: https://www.facebook.com/SuburbanFoodFarm"

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2018, 01:38:19 PM »
I have one here in Vegas that's about a year in from when I got in a rooted out 5-gallon. Currently it's in a big 25ish gallon pot and is putting off good growth. Judging by other posts here, I assume that I'll be waiting a while before I get any level of fruit set on it.

Also have a Fuerte and Mexicola Grande that are trucking along after a year. All have been kept mostly shaded to protect them from our brutal sun until they start getting some mature bark going.

Trying to acquire a Wilma, Reed, Day, Wurtz, and Stewart to see how they do here. Also doing some Hass seed grown direct in the ground to use as potential root stock.
Continuing my journey to disprove those who say "You can't grow that in the desert" since 2013.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2018, 02:33:21 PM »
I have one here in Vegas that's about a year in from when I got in a rooted out 5-gallon. Currently it's in a big 25ish gallon pot and is putting off good growth. Judging by other posts here, I assume that I'll be waiting a while before I get any level of fruit set on it.

Also have a Fuerte and Mexicola Grande that are trucking along after a year. All have been kept mostly shaded to protect them from our brutal sun until they start getting some mature bark going.

Trying to acquire a Wilma, Reed, Day, Wurtz, and Stewart to see how they do here. Also doing some Hass seed grown direct in the ground to use as potential root stock.

I hope you have a large greenhouse because all those mentioned except for Mexicola, Aravaipa and Stewart are not cold hardy.  What's your zone?  7 or 8?

Hate to be a Debby Downer but Tex-Mex varieties like Wilma are only good for rootstocks IMO.   Haven't heard one good comment about their taste.   My Joey sucked for instance.   Opal "tastes like grass", etc.

TucsonKen

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2018, 03:53:52 PM »
Mark, if you "haven't heard one good comment" about the taste of Wilma, perhaps you should re-read my post (Reply #17) in this same thread. Also, although I haven't experienced a truly cold winter since planting the Wilma & Opal, it got down to 27 this past winter with no appreciable damage (brand new flushes on the Wilma got crisped, but nothing else was harmed). A nursery owner about five miles from my house has three Mexicola Grandes growing in a service area with no protection from cold or heat, and they're doing fine. He says the fruit is delicious, but he rarely gets any because his workers steal them as soon as they're close to being mature. One of my neighbors had a couple of large (maybe 30 feet tall) Zutanos growing in his yard for many years. He eventually lost them to disease, but replaced them with another Zutano because he likes the fruit so much. The Westward Look resort a few miles from my house has a Mexicola and Zutano that are producing well, and the quality is high enough that they serve the fruit to their guests. It's just possible that what hasn't worked well in your area might might do better somewhere else. For example, in the late '30s and early '40s there was a 200-tree avocado grove of various types about a mile south of my home in Tucson. It was reported that the size and quality of the Duke avocados grown in Tucson was better than of Dukes grown in California. I, for one, applaud the efforts of Fygee and any other grower willing to expand our knowledge about how various avocados perform in challenging climates by actually giving them a try.

Fygee

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2018, 07:46:05 PM »
I have one here in Vegas that's about a year in from when I got in a rooted out 5-gallon. Currently it's in a big 25ish gallon pot and is putting off good growth. Judging by other posts here, I assume that I'll be waiting a while before I get any level of fruit set on it.

Also have a Fuerte and Mexicola Grande that are trucking along after a year. All have been kept mostly shaded to protect them from our brutal sun until they start getting some mature bark going.

Trying to acquire a Wilma, Reed, Day, Wurtz, and Stewart to see how they do here. Also doing some Hass seed grown direct in the ground to use as potential root stock.

I hope you have a large greenhouse because all those mentioned except for Mexicola, Aravaipa and Stewart are not cold hardy.  What's your zone?  7 or 8?

Hate to be a Debby Downer but Tex-Mex varieties like Wilma are only good for rootstocks IMO.   Haven't heard one good comment about their taste.   My Joey sucked for instance.   Opal "tastes like grass", etc.

Day and Wurtz will be in pots and brought indoors for the winter. Day are also cold hardy enough for the winters we get here.

The others will be experimental, but can be overwintered with proper mulching and burlap. We rarely get temps below freezing here, and when we do they don't last long. Lows typically hover around the higher end of 30-37F in the coldest part of winter.

We're zone 9.
Continuing my journey to disprove those who say "You can't grow that in the desert" since 2013.

Fygee

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2018, 07:49:02 PM »
I, for one, applaud the efforts of Fygee and any other grower willing to expand our knowledge about how various avocados perform in challenging climates by actually giving them a try.

Appreciate the support! Challenging is definitely the operative word here, but myself and some others within my Facebook group are up for it and trying similar and different methods to achieve success.
Continuing my journey to disprove those who say "You can't grow that in the desert" since 2013.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Any one tasted the Arizona avocado, Aravaipa?
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2018, 09:18:52 AM »
Mark, if you "haven't heard one good comment" about the taste of Wilma, perhaps you should re-read my post (Reply #17) in this same thread. Also, although I haven't experienced a truly cold winter since planting the Wilma & Opal, it got down to 27 this past winter with no appreciable damage (brand new flushes on the Wilma got crisped, but nothing else was harmed). A nursery owner about five miles from my house has three Mexicola Grandes growing in a service area with no protection from cold or heat, and they're doing fine. He says the fruit is delicious, but he rarely gets any because his workers steal them as soon as they're close to being mature. One of my neighbors had a couple of large (maybe 30 feet tall) Zutanos growing in his yard for many years. He eventually lost them to disease, but replaced them with another Zutano because he likes the fruit so much. The Westward Look resort a few miles from my house has a Mexicola and Zutano that are producing well, and the quality is high enough that they serve the fruit to their guests. It's just possible that what hasn't worked well in your area might might do better somewhere else. For example, in the late '30s and early '40s there was a 200-tree avocado grove of various types about a mile south of my home in Tucson. It was reported that the size and quality of the Duke avocados grown in Tucson was better than of Dukes grown in California. I, for one, applaud the efforts of Fygee and any other grower willing to expand our knowledge about how various avocados perform in challenging climates by actually giving them a try.

I read that a while back.  Was quite surprised and yes "terroir" plays a part in how well the tree does and how good the fruit is.  Yesterday I finished up 13 grafts of what should be top tier - GEM, Jan Boyce, Sharwil, Lamb Hass, Pinkerton and one of the best super cold hardy varieties - Stewart.   It is reported to be a Mexicola seedling, fruit is twice as big.   2 trees I top worked were Brogdon and now Oro Negro shoots (pictured) that came off the freeze damaged wood.  I put Stewart on a Bacon and Fantastic aka Pryor seedlings too.  Cold on cold.  Zone 8, I may put one outdoors.



Here's my Joey.  Tried to top work it with Stewart, didn't make it.





 

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