Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Dragon Fruit thread.  (Read 487552 times)

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #225 on: October 10, 2013, 02:17:57 PM »
Also, here is an article that might have some useful info in it.  I know the author, he’s an ok guy ;D.

http://www.jpacd.org/downloads/vol5/v5p98-105.pdf
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:23:18 PM by Sven »

Tim

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • USA, Escondido, CA 92027, zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #226 on: October 10, 2013, 02:44:42 PM »
Thanks for the history lesson, Sven.
How come http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs303 has American Beauty's origin as Guatemala?

Do you have anything on Halley's Comet?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:53:52 PM by Tim »
Tim

thao

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
    • WI zone 5b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #227 on: October 10, 2013, 05:42:45 PM »
Interesting history lesson. I have 1s,5s and QOSF, so that means my PG and PH will need to be cross pollinated. Well good thing, I have a few other variety as well. Know anything about Phoenix Red, Arizona purple, Thai Red, guyute and Rodger's White?

Tim

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • USA, Escondido, CA 92027, zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #228 on: October 10, 2013, 05:46:22 PM »
Purple Haze & Physical Graffiti don't need to be

Interesting history lesson. I have 1s,5s and QOSF, so that means my PG and PH will need to be cross pollinated. Well good thing, I have a few other variety as well. Know anything about Phoenix Red, Arizona purple, Thai Red, guyute and Rodger's White?
Tim

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #229 on: October 10, 2013, 06:00:08 PM »
The simple answer is because they are wrong  ;).  If you go to the Pine Island site and look at American Beauty  http://www.tropicalfruitnursery.com/dragon/pages/QOSF.htm you will notice QOSF at the end of the web address.  I used to give varieties I collected a 3 or 4 letter designation.  In this case it is Quang Ong Self Fertile or QOSF.  I got this from Quang himself and gave it to Pine Island labeled QOSF and they named it American Beauty.  I did give them a sheet with information on each of the varieties, but it probably got lost long before they named them.  I suspect Quang got this variety from Asia somewhere but Iím not sure.

Actually that is how I realized they had named the varieties, because I noticed 1S at the end of their web address: http://www.tropicalfruitnursery.com/dragon/pages/IS.htm  So I wrote them and they gave me the list I posted above.

I donít know anything about Halley's Comet.  The thing is I gave them 16 varieties (if I recall correctly) so it is possible some of the others they sell are some of Paulís varieties or others I gave them.  That one sure looks like it could be one of Paulís, but it might not be.  I need to get some files off my old computer, and when I do I will post all the varieties I gave them so people can compare and see if anything looks to be duplicated.  As an example, the fruit of Voodoo Child sure looks like Paulís 8S (a different cross than 1-5S and 9S) but I canít tell for sure without seeing the stem.  8S has a very distinct growth pattern. 

« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 06:05:26 PM by Sven »

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #230 on: October 10, 2013, 06:04:50 PM »
Purple Haze & Physical Graffiti don't need to be

Interesting history lesson. I have 1s,5s and QOSF, so that means my PG and PH will need to be cross pollinated. Well good thing, I have a few other variety as well. Know anything about Phoenix Red, Arizona purple, Thai Red, guyute and Rodger's White?

Sorry, I actually meant to qualify that by saying Paul found them not to be self fertile, as did I, but in other areas or under different management that might not be the case.

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #231 on: October 10, 2013, 06:08:08 PM »
Also, even with self-fertile varieties, hand cross-pollination usually gives you a much larger fruit.

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #232 on: October 10, 2013, 06:11:38 PM »
One other thing, try eating the white petals of the flowers.  The ones on the inside of the flower.  They are mildly sweet and I always thought they would be great in a salad.  I bet you could even market them that way.  It doesnít hurt the fruit set by pulling them off.

Tim

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • USA, Escondido, CA 92027, zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #233 on: October 10, 2013, 06:27:05 PM »
Thanks for the clarification... Very interesting regarding the petals. Never had fresh but dried out flowers after fruit set could be used in cooking in the same manner as dried bamboo shoots in Vietnamese cooking.

Do flower petals vary in sweetness from different varieties?
Tim

thao

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
    • WI zone 5b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #234 on: October 10, 2013, 07:10:28 PM »
Indeed interesting about the flower petals. So it's like the fejoas' edible flower petals then, mildly sweet. Will have to give it try, next year, if mine mange to fruit.

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #235 on: October 10, 2013, 07:25:25 PM »
I never noticed a difference in the sweetness of the petals between varieties but I never paid close attention to it. 

They aren’t exactly like fejoas.  They aren’t as sweet as that and they have an earthy sort of flavor.  I actually just had a Cereus peruvianus bloom and the petals taste similar.

There are other mistakes in the list here http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs303 they list delight as a H. polyrhizus x H. undatus cross which isn’t exactly correct.  Rixford might have H. polyrhizus in its parentage but it definitely isn’t a H. poly as far as I know.  Actually it could be any of the red fleshed species in its heritage, I don’t know for sure.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 07:28:38 PM by Sven »

thao

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
    • WI zone 5b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #236 on: October 10, 2013, 09:07:02 PM »
 

They arenít exactly like fejoas.  They arenít as sweet as that and they have an earthy sort of flavor.  I actually just had a Cereus peruvianus bloom and the petals taste similar.


I actually haven't tasted either fejoa fruit or flower petals, always heard people, say the flower petals are edible. So, thought that they might be similar, but only way for me to find out, is to try some of both next year ;D

JF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6417
  • North OC California Zone 10B/America Tropical 13A
    • 90631/97000
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #237 on: October 12, 2013, 01:02:46 AM »
Thanks for the reminder and history lesson Sven !! Paul Thomson and the CRFG have made great contributions to our hobby.


Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7410
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #238 on: October 12, 2013, 05:16:18 AM »
A good friend has a clean sweep of the Californian hybrids like rixford,haleys comet,american beauty,physical graffiti,purple haze,dark star,delight,cosmic charlie and about a dozen other top types. He has many Asian bred types, Australian ones and about 8 other Hylocereus species and S.megalanthus. Being an enthusiast he reads everything on the top and laughs at my collection od types and species. I thought I had a pretty crash hot assemblage although they are still young. Anyway he has expressed some strong opinions on dragonfruit that are not obvious in the literature.

He suggested the many of the Hylos need to be lumped and are not genetically or morphologically distinct and are not really separate species. He also said the common yellow S.megalanthus id a natural intergeneric hybrid that will become a Hyloc. soon.He advised me that most of the inferior tastes were due to picking too young and that the Californian glamorous hybrids were only on par in flavour with yellows, common commercial self fertile reds,the best viet whites and some of the wild types like true H.occamponis.

Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #239 on: October 12, 2013, 07:35:10 AM »
Mike,

I agree with your friend about the ďflavorĒ.  When properly ripened many of the varieties achieve similar levels of sweetness.  In fact the sweetest fruit I grew was not one of Paulís varieties but a G2 which is a variety from Guatemala that Steve Spangler at Exotica was propagating and selling.  It had a brix of 31 if I recall correctly.

The biggest problem with them commercially (as I saw it) is that by the time they are sweet enough to taste good they look like crap on the outside and no one would buy them.  So either you sell nice looking fruit that no one will buy again because it is insipid or you sell ugly fruit that no one will even try because of the outward appearance.  1S looked like it got sweet earlier than other varieties.

There are some varieties that produce insipid fruit even when you leave them on the plant long enough.  George Emerich had a dead jacaranda tree in his driveway that was covered in pitaya.  It was from 4 cuttings planted at the base of the tree.  I believe he did get some sweet fruit but some was insipid no matter how long you left it on the vine.  He wasnít sure if all 4 of the plants were the same or different but I suspect there were at least 2 different clones there.  When the tree fell over I went and got two pickup truck loads of cuttings and rooted a ton of them, but scrapped most of them when I realized it wasnít a good variety.

Sven

p.s. Rixford isn't one of the hybrids, it's one Paul collected from someone else.  It's one of the parents of Paul's hybrids.


« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 07:39:32 AM by Sven »

Luisport

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2728
  • New in tropical fruit growing!
    • Fatima, Portugal
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #240 on: October 28, 2013, 07:39:52 PM »
How you rated the diferent var. of dragon's in terms of flavour?

Daintree

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Boise, Idaho - zone 6, with a zone 12 greenhouse...
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #241 on: October 28, 2013, 08:24:26 PM »
Great ideas for a dragon fruit thread!
I could use some help with mine!
I have Physical Graffiti, and a yellow dragon fruit (Selenicereus megalanthus according to Pine Island Nursery, where I ordered them).  I have had them for over 3 years now, and cannot get them to bloom!  They were fairly large plants in gallon pots when I got them.
They have been in my tropical greenhouse, which never gets below 50F.  I have tried SO many different things to try and get them to bloom - lots of water, little water, fertilizer, no fertilizer, letting them grow until they took over the place with greenery, pruning them down, more light, more shade, and nothing.  I have no problem at all with getting my epiphyllums (orchid cactus) to bloom. I have recently moved the dragon fruit to the dormant house (gets into the high 30's in winter but never freezes), thinking maybe they need vernalization(?). 
They grow like weeds, and seem really happy and healthy, other than no blooms.  Aaarggh!

The only other things I can think of are, maybe, light intensity?  Or do they have a critical photo period and I need to keep them in the light for a longer period each day?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1753
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #242 on: October 28, 2013, 11:41:32 PM »
My 'David Bowie' Dragon Fruit has picked up in growing speed and strength, but I'm still waiting for the first flower. I'm using the Pine Island Nursery single pole method. The cuttings were planted around the pole almost two years ago. I chose this variety because the P.I.N. website said the flavor and productivity is excellent. I have a feeling that it won't be long now.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

Luisport

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2728
  • New in tropical fruit growing!
    • Fatima, Portugal
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #243 on: October 29, 2013, 06:53:33 AM »
My first dragon fruit (yellow Selenicereus megalanthus)!  ;D


Sven

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • USA, Sounthern California, Jamul, 9B 3000 ft.
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #244 on: October 29, 2013, 07:22:03 AM »
Daintree,

Can you post a picture of your plants?  Lack of flowering in Hylocereus species (in my experience) is usually from too much shade.  They will do fine with high 30ís (even low 30ís is ok) so the move into the dormant house should be no problem.  Maybe even the added stress will help them bloom.  Do you fertilize much?  Sometimes they just take a year or two longer than you would think or want them to. 

Looks good Luisport.  As for flavor of the Hyloceres varieties Iíll leave it up to other people with more experience fruiting them.  I will say they generally donít really have much flavor, just sweet and juicy.  Also most of the varieties will attain similar sweetness when the fruits are left on the plant to ripen properly.

Sven

Daintree

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Boise, Idaho - zone 6, with a zone 12 greenhouse...
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #245 on: October 30, 2013, 07:53:22 PM »
Here are some pictures of my dragon fruit.  Earlier in the summer, they were quite large, but I got mad at them for not blooming and chopped them down.  Then I felt bad and repotted them and built them the new, smaller trellises. 

This was last spring (sorry, it is hard to see them behind the cacao that is covered with grasskeet "anti-landing devices") -


Also, the stems never got thick, they just got VERY long and spindly, like they are now.
More light, you think?  Can I have success with artificial light, if the natural light isn't enough?  I have burned them several times trying to put them in full sun.

These were just taken a few minutes ago -



Tim

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • USA, Escondido, CA 92027, zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #246 on: October 30, 2013, 08:48:21 PM »
Your dragon fruits are fairly young looking
Tim

Daintree

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Boise, Idaho - zone 6, with a zone 12 greenhouse...
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #247 on: October 30, 2013, 10:24:07 PM »
I bought them 3 years avon, and the stems were very thick (2-3 inches).  THey were about 2 feet tall, and seemed really vigorous.  They have grown like crazy, but the stems are always very thin.
Aarrrggh!  I am tired of buying my dragon fruit at the oriental market in Portland!
What am I doing wrong?

nullzero

  • Zone 10a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3515
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #248 on: October 30, 2013, 10:49:20 PM »
I bought them 3 years avon, and the stems were very thick (2-3 inches).  THey were about 2 feet tall, and seemed really vigorous.  They have grown like crazy, but the stems are always very thin.
Aarrrggh!  I am tired of buying my dragon fruit at the oriental market in Portland!
What am I doing wrong?

Its probably the amount of light, like others have commented. From experience when dragon fruit is lacking light it tends to get thin and sprawl out seeking more light.
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

Daintree

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Boise, Idaho - zone 6, with a zone 12 greenhouse...
    • View Profile
Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #249 on: October 31, 2013, 12:20:50 AM »
Thanks!
Starting tomorrow, they get MORE LIGHT!

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers