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Author Topic: Varieties of Ross sapote ?  (Read 2122 times)

Bananaizme

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Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« on: May 07, 2017, 01:10:53 PM »
    I was curious if there are any named varieties of Ross sapote ? The reason that I ask is because the 3 gallon tree that I bought a few weeks ago from champa nursery is a grafted tree.  I repotted it yesterday into a 7  gallon and then I started wondering why they would graft it unless the scion was from a tree with desirable characteristics. Anyone have any ideas about this ?

William

bsbullie

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 01:40:14 PM »
    I was curious if there are any named varieties of Ross sapote ? The reason that I ask is because the 3 gallon tree that I bought a few weeks ago from champa nursery is a grafted tree.  I repotted it yesterday into a 7  gallon and then I started wondering why they would graft it unless the scion was from a tree with desirable characteristics. Anyone have any ideas about this ?

William

Its grafted cause thats the only way to get a true Ross.  They do not come true from seed.
- Rob

Zafra

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 02:01:10 PM »
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Ross is a named variety of sapote. It's a sapote named Ross.

bsbullie

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 02:06:07 PM »
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Ross is a named variety of sapote. It's a sapote named Ross.

Its really an unknown.  Sapote is a generic term.  By the fruit itself, its likely it is a type of canistel.
- Rob

Bananaizme

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 04:40:33 PM »
   Rob

 Thanks for the explanation. If there's no named varieties then the only other reason I could come up with would be to speed up fruit production.

 William

fruitlovers

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 06:31:19 PM »
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Ross is a named variety of sapote. It's a sapote named Ross.
Yes you are mistaken. It's not a named variety. I think almost all the trees out there are seedlings. Ross is a name that was made up by Bill Whitman. He was given this fruit during his travels in Costa Rica. The only thing he knew was that it was given to him by a fellow named Ross. He noticed it was different from regular canistel. The story is in his book Five Decades with Tropical Fruits.
It's not known with certainty if it's a type of canistel. It probably is not. Probably is a different species of pouteria. This from a pouteria specialist on pouterias T.D. Pennington in personal converstation with him. Also Whitman correctly noted it is Pouteria sp., not canistel. Look at p. 206. Whitman also believed that due to fruiting in clusters "it is not P. campechiana, (canistel) p. 401..
The only reason to graft it is to find good quality types and speed up fruiting. But as far as i know there are not named varieties.
Oscar

BigIslandGrower

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2017, 06:37:36 PM »

 Also Whitman correctly noted it is Pouteria sp., not canistel. Look at p. 206. Whitman also believed that due to fruiting in clusters "it is not P. campechiana, (canistel) p. 401..

I'm confused about the oft repeated"fruiting in clusters". My specimen of Ross sapote doesn't do this, nor have others I've seen.

fruitlovers

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 07:09:04 PM »

 Also Whitman correctly noted it is Pouteria sp., not canistel. Look at p. 206. Whitman also believed that due to fruiting in clusters "it is not P. campechiana, (canistel) p. 401..

I'm confused about the oft repeated"fruiting in clusters". My specimen of Ross sapote doesn't do this, nor have others I've seen.
The photos in Whitman's book show them fruiting in clusters. Either yours are not yet up to full flowering potential, or there may be seedling types that also don't exhibit this trait.
Oscar

Guanabanus

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 07:26:12 PM »
Grafted trees skip the juvenility period that each new seedling would go through---  whether or not there are other reasons for grafting.
Har

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 08:18:39 PM »
 I have fruiting Ross, Bruce (from Pine Island Nursery) and Trompo (from ECHO). In my small nursery, most of the ross seedlings look like the other canistel seedlings and none really look like Ross. Ross has rounded leaf ends, doesn't look the same as other canistel leaves and more leaves per twig.

I would be interested in knowing if it strongly out crosses and what the hybrid fruit is like.

Zafra

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 08:23:50 PM »
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Ross is a named variety of sapote. It's a sapote named Ross.
Yes you are mistaken. It's not a named variety. I think almost all the trees out there are seedlings. Ross is a name that was made up by Bill Whitman. He was given this fruit during his travels in Costa Rica. The only thing he knew was that it was given to him by a fellow named Ross. He noticed it was different from regular canistel. The story is in his book Five Decades with Tropical Fruits.
It's not known with certainty if it's a type of canistel. It probably is not. Probably is a different species of pouteria. This from a pouteria specialist on pouterias T.D. Pennington in personal converstation with him. Also Whitman correctly noted it is Pouteria sp., not canistel. Look at p. 206. Whitman also believed that due to fruiting in clusters "it is not P. campechiana, (canistel) p. 401..
The only reason to graft it is to find good quality types and speed up fruiting. But as far as i know there are not named varieties.
Fascinating. So to say "Ross sapote" is like saying "mango" or "avocado"?

fruitlovers

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 08:31:52 PM »
I have fruiting Ross, Bruce (from Pine Island Nursery) and Trompo (from ECHO). In my small nursery, most of the ross seedlings look like the other canistel seedlings and none really look like Ross. Ross has rounded leaf ends, doesn't look the same as other canistel leaves and more leaves per twig.

I would be interested in knowing if it strongly out crosses and what the hybrid fruit is like.
If Ross sapote easily crosses with canistel than that would be a good argument to prove it is same species. If it is a different species it's probably not going to cross so easily.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 08:35:04 PM »
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Ross is a named variety of sapote. It's a sapote named Ross.
Yes you are mistaken. It's not a named variety. I think almost all the trees out there are seedlings. Ross is a name that was made up by Bill Whitman. He was given this fruit during his travels in Costa Rica. The only thing he knew was that it was given to him by a fellow named Ross. He noticed it was different from regular canistel. The story is in his book Five Decades with Tropical Fruits.
It's not known with certainty if it's a type of canistel. It probably is not. Probably is a different species of pouteria. This from a pouteria specialist on pouterias T.D. Pennington in personal converstation with him. Also Whitman correctly noted it is Pouteria sp., not canistel. Look at p. 206. Whitman also believed that due to fruiting in clusters "it is not P. campechiana, (canistel) p. 401..
The only reason to graft it is to find good quality types and speed up fruiting. But as far as i know there are not named varieties.
Fascinating. So to say "Ross sapote" is like saying "mango" or "avocado"?
Not quite, because we know exactly what species mangoes and avocado are. It's more like Luc's garcinia, where it is similar to other garcinias, but is probably a different species, and is an unknown or not named species.
If you look at all the pouteria species, this is not surprising. There are lots of species of pouteria,  Well over 200, and many taste like canistel and look similar.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 08:39:14 PM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

Mike T

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2017, 01:23:59 AM »
Ross grows in several forms here but does have more clustering fruit habit than typical canistels. I suspect some of the seedlings and variation may represent crosses with typical canistels at times. Have a search and see the giant Ross sapote that I previously posted pics of.

ftmyersfruit

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2017, 10:37:14 AM »
My Ross fruits in clusters. Here are flowers from today.

Here is one I grafted from the f&s tree. Hard to tell, but flowering in clusters.

I tend to think they are the same species or very very closely related to canistel. The second photo is grafted onto canistel.

Bananaizme

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2017, 02:37:16 PM »
     Another question I have regarding Ross sapote is how long does it generally take from flower to harvest of fruit ?

 William

greenman62

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Re: Varieties of Ross sapote ?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2017, 10:51:31 AM »
Is Ross have a better cold tolerance than Canistel ?

I had bought a canistel and put it in my raised bed
we had 1 might that hit 26F (coldest in 10yrs)
i think the roots froze in the raised bed
and it had only been in there a couple of months.

i found a Lucuma on ebay  , but the leaves fell off in shipping
it was packaged too tightly and the box was crushed.
hoping it will put out new growth, but its small (barely rooted cutting) ...
i would buy another canistel (Or Ross) if i thought i could get improved cold tolerance.


 

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