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Author Topic: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest  (Read 17767 times)

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2018, 12:07:07 PM »



The Yuzu has put on more growth.

I think the rainy season has started (it began raining heavily yesterday).

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2018, 04:43:27 PM »
Little Yuzu seedling planted in the ground is doing well:



SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2018, 12:02:10 AM »
I decided to cover the little keraji seedling in the ground with a cut transparent plastic water container, as part of an experiment to see if they will be able to survive, or if it would help extend the growing season in this cool climate.

The little keraji seedling has actually put on some noticable growth since being covered with the plastic container. Here it was at the end of August, not having been covered yet:



Here's the transparent plastic container that was put over it:



Here it is on September 20, temporarily with the cover off so you can have a clear view:



And now here's another picture taken today (September 26 ) and you can see it's noticably put on even more growth:



Obviously the plastic container coverings are working.

I think it's helping for three reasons.
First of all, the container holds in the humidity. This may not be an issue in the South, but in this climate when it's warm and sunny it also tends to be fairly dry. As temperatures are cooling down, that ironically is also going to contribute to dehydration since as the leaves are warmed by the sun's light they will be slightly warmer than the surrounding air, and when you have an object that's warmer than the surrounding air a drying effect occurs (analogous to freeze drying). That's one of the reasons most trees in the Pacific Northwest are conifers, by the way, with needle-like leaves for maximum passage of air to cool off so they do not become warmer than the air (which tends to be cooler from the air blowing in from the ocean).
The second reason is insulation that helps the wind from carrying away heat (this is somewhat like the windchill effect). It might not sound like much but just a simple plastic layer that prevents the blowing of air through the leaves can help raise effective temperatures by a few degrees. This is important with the cool climate here and the growing season coming to an end.
The last reason is the greenhouse effect. Sun light that enters hits the plant or the ground as is converted to heat. Light can enter through the plastic more easily than heat can leave, so as a result the temperature inside a greenhouse rises while the sun is out. This can be a pretty strong effect. A simple plastic container may not really function as the most effective greenhouse but I suspect temperatures inside the container may be 5 or 6 degrees warmer than the immediate area outside (at least while the sun is out and shining on it). This greenhouse effect is far less effective at keeping temperatures up after dark, but warmer temperatures in the middle of the day can mean a longer growing season for citrus, since temperatures are about now dipping just below what citrus needs to grow in. The season is already beginning to cool off.

The thing to fight in the PNW is cool temperatures (cold-cool), not so much extreme cold events. That's why I think this type of strategy is probably a lot more effective here than it would be in the South.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 12:41:19 AM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2018, 04:44:16 PM »
Warm sunny day, full sun. September 28, 1:10-1:20 middle of the day. Temperature inside the enclosure around the Satsuma read 104 F on the thermometer. Temperature right outside read 89 F.
Weather service says it is 72 outside. Thermometer inside house read 70 degrees, which was confirmed by the thermostat.
The greenhouse effect in full sun is pretty strong. I'll also mention there is a slim crack around the entire bottom of the enclosure right now (plastic not pulled down tight enough), so there is a small gap where air can get through. It is up against a fence, so that may be making a difference, as the sun warms the fence. Thermometer readings taken at ground level.
The greenhouse effect can be powerful in full sun, even when it's just a thin piece of vinyl plastic sheeting.

I had to open it up and vent it out.

Isaac-1

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2018, 09:49:13 PM »
I have read that optimal citrus growth occurs at around 86F

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2018, 02:34:02 AM »
I have read that optimal citrus growth occurs at around 86F
Maybe in humid climates like the South.
The Summers on the West Coast (including the PNW) are far too dry for citrus to do well in that heat, the leaves can get kind of baked. I think the optimal temperature range might be closer to 76-83.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:36:41 AM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2018, 01:28:23 PM »



enclosure around Satsuma

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2018, 04:53:11 PM »
The Bloomsweet needed a little help to deal with the cooling temperatures



SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2018, 05:16:31 PM »
various citrus seedlings inside greenhouse


(some of them are cold hardy, others not, just off the top of my head, some of them include keraji, yuzu, pomelo, oroblanco seedlings, and others)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:07:35 PM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2018, 08:05:46 PM »


I made a measurement ( 3:30 in the afternoon, partial sun at that time), it's about 6 degrees (F) warmer on the inside of the cover than right outside. And the top of the cover is composed of breathable fabric that lets some air through.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2018, 11:26:18 AM »
November 12, it's the first day with frost. There's a light frost covering the ground.
It's about 8 degrees colder right now than it is in Seattle.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2018, 12:24:44 PM »
Are the seedlings going in the ground one day? Are you planning to wait for them to make fruit? Will you build twenty foot tall frames around them to protect from cold so they may make fruit 6-10 years from now? My Changsha seedling is 15 feet tall, protected, and still hasnít bloomed. If it doesnít bloom this spring Iím tempted to cut it down, toss my seedlings in pots, and just deal with grafted stuff.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2018, 06:44:14 PM »
This is in zone 8, and I don't think any of this would be worth attempting if it was even in zone 7b.
I have read a few reports of non-hardy gardenia varieties occasionally being able to survive around the sound in this region (which seems very encouraging, if true).

As for fruiting, I'm not truly sure if that will happen. Unlike much of the rest of the PNW region further North along the sound, we do get some heat here in the Summer (although it's not a long Summer, and the nights can often still get pretty cool).
The Satsuma is in a cold frame enclosure outside, that's not going to be opened up until April, so surely that's going to be acting as a greenhouse of sorts, giving it the extra heat it needs (at least on clear sunny days).
It's also important to take into consideration that citrus grown from seed (not on rootstock) will be less precocious and take much longer until it begins fruiting, even though I think own-root citrus are more vigorous and hardy in this zone 8 climate. This combined with the shorter growing season and cooler Northerly climate could mean that it could take a very long time before a citrus tree begins fruiting, and the tree might be quite big by the time that happens. That's why I wouldn't necessarily give up on a seed-grown tree just because it's been growing for 10 years.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 06:56:25 PM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2018, 07:20:47 PM »
A post I found archived on the old Citrus Growers Forum:
______________________________________________
Las Palmas Norte
Location: Lantzville, Vancouver Island
23 January, 2014

Been ages since I was on this forum last. Just a quick update on a few in-ground citrus I have in zone 8b Vancouver Island.
Last big freeze was Dec 6 where temps dive bombed to 20įF / -6.7įC. Both Yuzu and Changsha where absolutely fine. 10į Tangerine had it's leaves flag, only to pick up again after that bad night.
Hope everyones citrus is doing great. Belated Happy New Year.
______________________________________________
Las Palmas Norte
27 February, 2014

10į Tangerine picked up nicely after the leaf flag back then and has been fine since. Recent wet snow has not fazed any of these either. Mother nature is expected to deliver another blow this weekend with temps down into the low 20's / -5įC on Saturday (Mar.1).
______________________________________________
(reference to Ten Degree Tangerine, a yuzu x clementine hybrid)

______________________________________________
gregn
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
6 June, 2010

Skeeter, Your sisters satsuma - was it a seedling or a cutting? I have heard satsumas are difficult to root (cuttings). I have tried a few different methods - all without success. We didn't get much frost this winter and NO snow ! - only a few frosty nights in December. My (in ground) satsuma, Changsha and for the first time my Juanita are in bloom now - meyer lemons have finished blooming Smile

Greg

Gregn, citrus enthusiast. North Vancouver Canada. USDA zone 8. I grow In-ground citrus, Palms and bananas. Also have container citrus
______________________________________________
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 07:35:43 PM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2019, 04:55:22 AM »
We're getting snow for the first time this Winter, and temperatures are expected to get down to 19 F two days from now.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2019, 10:07:54 AM »
Good luck with the coming cold!

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2019, 05:51:58 PM »



Interestingly the water inside the gallon water containers on the ground has still not frozen, even though the containers are covered in snow. However the top layer of some exposed puddles of water have frozen.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2019, 06:20:11 PM »
Oh my goodness; the tree in photo #2 that isnít covered has a lot of brown branches. What is it and how long have those branches been dead? Is the base of the trunk cracked? 

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2019, 06:26:40 PM »
Oh my goodness; the tree in photo #2 that isnít covered has a lot of brown branches. What is it and how long have those branches been dead?
I believe it's a MIC, and those brown branches were already dead from being planted out too early in March after growing very well inside a warm grow enclosure inside. Even though it never went below freezing during March, I learned that citrus growing in warm conditions inside cannot tolerate a sudden transition to cold outside. It will cause die-back, even though that hardy citrus may have been easily able to handle those temperatures otherwise.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2019, 06:56:38 AM »
Thatís true. Why didnít you prune the dead wood last year during growing season? What does MIC stand for?

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2019, 01:35:42 PM »
Saturday it's expected to go down to 16 degrees.
Which is pretty typical to have at least one night in the Winter where it gets down to 15 or 16.

The reason for the temperature lows is that cold air is blowing down from the North through the Puget Sound.

The winds are not really extending all the way south, so Portland is not going to be as cold, even though it is a little more landlocked.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2019, 04:30:40 AM »
The latest weather forecast predicts it could get down to 12 degrees early morning Sunday.
I don't think it will get all the way down that cold, but that seems like an unusually low temperature point for a typical Winter.

Most of the citrus should just barely be able to survive it (if all the research I've done turns out to be correct).

So far all the leaves on the citrus look okay. Not really good, but not terrible. A few of the hardy varieties that do not have quite as much hardiness as the others are covered.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 04:37:55 AM by SoCal2warm »

jim VH

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2019, 11:19:44 AM »
Yes, so far I've only seen 21F(-6C) at my location in the Portland area.  This won't damage the hardier citrus, but I did close up the Satsuma shelters.  Saturday night it may hit 18F(-7.8C), and colder temperatures may be possible if cold continental air starts pouring through the Columbia river Gorge accompanied by any overnight clearing that may occur.  That's cold enough to damage-or even kill- Satsumas, so In that case I'll run the Christmas tree lights in the Satsuma shelters.
All leaves on the unprotected Citrus look good, except the Ichang Lemon (Shangyuan variety)   Given this, I suspect it may not be as hardy as the 5-10F sometimes claimed for it, though I doubt it will die in the present event.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2019, 06:29:05 PM »
It's snowing heavily. Temperature is only 33 though.

Yuzu, with the enclosure covering the Bloomsweet in the background:

The cover has bent over due to the weight of the snow.
It's on the south facing side of the house in a warmer spot protected from wind.

Dunstan citrumelo in snow:


jim VH

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2019, 10:44:06 AM »
My brother tells me it's predicted to get down to 12F (-11.1C) at his place in Tacoma overnight Saturday, much colder than Portland.  If you do get down to 12F tonight at your location,the Yuzu and maybe the Citrumelo will probably defoliate.  Mine did when they were that young.  But-at least if they are on a flying Dragon or PT rootstock- they should survive.  I've found that other rootstocks are a bit more problematical in the extended Freezes in the PNW.

 

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