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Author Topic: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest  (Read 12579 times)

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2018, 12:07:07 PM »



The Yuzu has put on more growth.

I think the rainy season has started (it began raining heavily yesterday).

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2018, 04:43:27 PM »
Little Yuzu seedling planted in the ground is doing well:



SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2018, 12:02:10 AM »
I decided to cover the little keraji seedling in the ground with a cut transparent plastic water container, as part of an experiment to see if they will be able to survive, or if it would help extend the growing season in this cool climate.

The little keraji seedling has actually put on some noticable growth since being covered with the plastic container. Here it was at the end of August, not having been covered yet:



Here's the transparent plastic container that was put over it:



Here it is on September 20, temporarily with the cover off so you can have a clear view:



And now here's another picture taken today (September 26 ) and you can see it's noticably put on even more growth:



Obviously the plastic container coverings are working.

I think it's helping for three reasons.
First of all, the container holds in the humidity. This may not be an issue in the South, but in this climate when it's warm and sunny it also tends to be fairly dry. As temperatures are cooling down, that ironically is also going to contribute to dehydration since as the leaves are warmed by the sun's light they will be slightly warmer than the surrounding air, and when you have an object that's warmer than the surrounding air a drying effect occurs (analogous to freeze drying). That's one of the reasons most trees in the Pacific Northwest are conifers, by the way, with needle-like leaves for maximum passage of air to cool off so they do not become warmer than the air (which tends to be cooler from the air blowing in from the ocean).
The second reason is insulation that helps the wind from carrying away heat (this is somewhat like the windchill effect). It might not sound like much but just a simple plastic layer that prevents the blowing of air through the leaves can help raise effective temperatures by a few degrees. This is important with the cool climate here and the growing season coming to an end.
The last reason is the greenhouse effect. Sun light that enters hits the plant or the ground as is converted to heat. Light can enter through the plastic more easily than heat can leave, so as a result the temperature inside a greenhouse rises while the sun is out. This can be a pretty strong effect. A simple plastic container may not really function as the most effective greenhouse but I suspect temperatures inside the container may be 5 or 6 degrees warmer than the immediate area outside (at least while the sun is out and shining on it). This greenhouse effect is far less effective at keeping temperatures up after dark, but warmer temperatures in the middle of the day can mean a longer growing season for citrus, since temperatures are about now dipping just below what citrus needs to grow in. The season is already beginning to cool off.

The thing to fight in the PNW is cool temperatures (cold-cool), not so much extreme cold events. That's why I think this type of strategy is probably a lot more effective here than it would be in the South.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 12:41:19 AM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2018, 04:44:16 PM »
Warm sunny day, full sun. September 28, 1:10-1:20 middle of the day. Temperature inside the enclosure around the Satsuma read 104 F on the thermometer. Temperature right outside read 89 F.
Weather service says it is 72 outside. Thermometer inside house read 70 degrees, which was confirmed by the thermostat.
The greenhouse effect in full sun is pretty strong. I'll also mention there is a slim crack around the entire bottom of the enclosure right now (plastic not pulled down tight enough), so there is a small gap where air can get through. It is up against a fence, so that may be making a difference, as the sun warms the fence. Thermometer readings taken at ground level.
The greenhouse effect can be powerful in full sun, even when it's just a thin piece of vinyl plastic sheeting.

I had to open it up and vent it out.

Isaac-1

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2018, 09:49:13 PM »
I have read that optimal citrus growth occurs at around 86F

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2018, 02:34:02 AM »
I have read that optimal citrus growth occurs at around 86F
Maybe in humid climates like the South.
The Summers on the West Coast (including the PNW) are far too dry for citrus to do well in that heat, the leaves can get kind of baked. I think the optimal temperature range might be closer to 76-83.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:36:41 AM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2018, 01:28:23 PM »



enclosure around Satsuma

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2018, 04:53:11 PM »
The Bloomsweet needed a little help to deal with the cooling temperatures



SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2018, 05:16:31 PM »
various citrus seedlings inside greenhouse


(some of them are cold hardy, others not, just off the top of my head, some of them include keraji, yuzu, pomelo, oroblanco seedlings, and others)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:07:35 PM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2018, 08:05:46 PM »


I made a measurement ( 3:30 in the afternoon, partial sun at that time), it's about 6 degrees (F) warmer on the inside of the cover than right outside. And the top of the cover is composed of breathable fabric that lets some air through.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2018, 11:26:18 AM »
November 12, it's the first day with frost. There's a light frost covering the ground.
It's about 8 degrees colder right now than it is in Seattle.

Citradia

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2018, 12:24:44 PM »
Are the seedlings going in the ground one day? Are you planning to wait for them to make fruit? Will you build twenty foot tall frames around them to protect from cold so they may make fruit 6-10 years from now? My Changsha seedling is 15 feet tall, protected, and still hasnít bloomed. If it doesnít bloom this spring Iím tempted to cut it down, toss my seedlings in pots, and just deal with grafted stuff.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2018, 06:44:14 PM »
This is in zone 8, and I don't think any of this would be worth attempting if it was even in zone 7b.
I have read a few reports of non-hardy gardenia varieties occasionally being able to survive around the sound in this region (which seems very encouraging, if true).

As for fruiting, I'm not truly sure if that will happen. Unlike much of the rest of the PNW region further North along the sound, we do get some heat here in the Summer (although it's not a long Summer, and the nights can often still get pretty cool).
The Satsuma is in a cold frame enclosure outside, that's not going to be opened up until April, so surely that's going to be acting as a greenhouse of sorts, giving it the extra heat it needs (at least on clear sunny days).
It's also important to take into consideration that citrus grown from seed (not on rootstock) will be less precocious and take much longer until it begins fruiting, even though I think own-root citrus are more vigorous and hardy in this zone 8 climate. This combined with the shorter growing season and cooler Northerly climate could mean that it could take a very long time before a citrus tree begins fruiting, and the tree might be quite big by the time that happens. That's why I wouldn't necessarily give up on a seed-grown tree just because it's been growing for 10 years.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 06:56:25 PM by SoCal2warm »

 

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