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Author Topic: hybrids with precocious Poncirus  (Read 7372 times)

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2017, 03:32:38 AM »
I suspect that Voss Ntri hybrids are from non controlled open pollination by some trifoliate hybrid.
All F1 poncirus derivatives that I have seen were nearly 100% trifoliates.
N1tri starts to show a damage already at -9C, but mostly at the ends of new growth. It has very sparse fructification, many flowers are without pistils. Fruits are rather small, pear shaped, resemble small lemons.

It might be a pollination by a trifoliate hybrid. I`ll keep an eye on this topic.
My N1tri are very good bloomer for me, haven`t seen sterile flowers so far. They are beside Ichang Papedas my best fruiting plants.
Fruits are small and pearshaped like yours, it should be the same clone like yours. -9C is what I expected.


Another question, are there  differences in leave shape and other phenotypics between the hybrids on its own roots and the grafted ones?
They have smaller spines and larger leaves, especially toward the fruiting branches.
the grafted ones?
Mitchurin wrote that grafted apple seedlings and the same seedling on its own roots develope in different ways. So different that one wouldn`t suspect the same variety. Fruits are very different from each other. After him a wild rootstock change the hybrid more in the direction of the wild species.
I am wondering if this can be true.

Topgrafting sounds interesting.

Sylvain

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2017, 12:30:13 PM »
Mikkel,

> He suggested the use of C.wintersii/M.papuana as a substitute for C.wakonai even if it is of hybrid offspring. With selfing/inbreeding one could stabilize the precocious trait and go then for hybrids with other Citrus.
What arguments Malcom S. gave to prefer C. wintersi to C. wakonai?

Simply. It is not available.
It depends for who.

Sylvain

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2017, 12:33:19 PM »
My C. wintersii are not of hybrid offspring.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 12:53:24 PM by Sylvain »

Millet

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2017, 12:38:16 PM »
Ilya 11  concerning the tall tree growing in the small round pot (the second picture)   That is a classic example of growth by a  root bound tree.  When a container tree's root system fills the container becoming root bound, the growth shoots straight up, like toothpaste squeezed out of the tube.

Ilya11

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2017, 01:15:47 PM »
Millet,
It is in a root pruning container.
Its small size favors the induction of flowers because of low ratio of root/branch volumes.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2017, 03:25:15 PM »
Mikkel,

> He suggested the use of C.wintersii/M.papuana as a substitute for C.wakonai even if it is of hybrid offspring. With selfing/inbreeding one could stabilize the precocious trait and go then for hybrids with other Citrus.
What arguments Malcom S. gave to prefer C. wintersi to C. wakonai?

Simply. It is not available.
It depends for who.

Is it meant as offensive as it sounds?
I know you have it and I asked you twice for it. As I always got no answer when it comes to this matter I can not say it is available as it is not for me and for others. As you posted by yourself.
I don`t want to overestimate this but I feel a bit offended. Do I get you wrong?

Sylvain

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2017, 05:27:19 AM »
> I don`t want to overestimate this but I feel a bit offended. Do I get you wrong
Yes completely wrong.

Where did you ask me? On a forum or by mail?
I cannot speak freely on this forum. I have already been censored.
It's why my answers are so short and abstruse.
It is better if you contact me by mail.

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2017, 04:42:36 PM »
> I don`t want to overestimate this but I feel a bit offended. Do I get you wrong
Yes completely wrong.

Where did you ask me? On a forum or by mail?
I cannot speak freely on this forum. I have already been censored.
It's why my answers are so short and abstruse.
It is better if you contact me by mail.

Okay. Sorry for my post and thank you for your reply!

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2017, 05:00:51 AM »
@Sylvain
Did you get my message? I can not find it again, maybe something went wrong...

Sylvain

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2017, 11:32:02 AM »
No, I received no mail.
Where did you try? In PM here or on the French forum or in my personal email?

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2017, 12:04:45 PM »
No, I received no mail.
Where did you try? In PM here or on the French forum or in my personal email?
Here. Via the email button. I try it on the french forum. Somehow it will work :)

Walt

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2018, 12:47:13 PM »
Unless I missed it, there haven't been any posts saying, "Yes, I've made crosses using precocious Poncirus."  Well, I haven't either.  But next spring I expect to be making some.  I know that the trait is recessive, so I don't expect different results in the F1 than if I use regular Poncirus.  But I'm looking toward the F2 and beyond.  In those generations, I'm expecting big differences in generation time.  I'll be crossing, I hope, with finger lime and kumquat as I hope they will be blooming then.  It is possible, but not likely, that I'll have mandarines in blloom next year.  If so, they will also be crossed.  Just as I hope my precocious Poncirus will be blooming.  I have aquired some precocious Poncirus from several sources, All trace back to Laaz's precocious.

Ilya11

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2018, 02:27:34 PM »
In my experience, this poncirus is really early flowering, but fruiting is not so early.
First flowers are incomplete, than the plant is throwing fruitlets because it is too small and slowly growing  to keep them.
So practically you need to wait 4-5 years to have some decent harvest.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Millet

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2018, 04:49:54 PM »
I just received a very nice early flowering Poncirus from Laaz.  I also had 6 trees of the standard dwarf Flying Dragon Poncirus in pots.  I planted one in the ground outside my barn near its south facing wall, and tossed the rest into the compost pile,
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 04:51:26 PM by Millet »

Walt

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2018, 12:53:38 PM »
Ilya.  All I want to harvest from precocious Pt is pollen.  And I'm willing to wait if I must.  I want to see if the gene(s) have different  effects in different backgrounds.  Cutting even one year per generation would be of value.
Mikkel.  I'm keeping my Flying Dragon because it makes some zygotic seeds.  I haven't read reports saying whether or not precocious does that.

Walt

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2018, 01:06:06 PM »
I have some precocious P.t seeds from Laaz germinating.  The first 2 seedling are single, so I guess they are from monozygotic seeds, and maybe therefore zygotic.
A couple of years ago, I got seeds  of precocious P.t from Alan Bishop.  From 10 seeds, I got about 8 seedling.  Though I didn't notice whether they were each from different seeds, the numbers suggest they might have been.
So, has anyone noticed whether Laas's precocious P.t breeds true even when crossed?  If not, I'll be using it as seed parent as well as pollen parent.

Walt

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2018, 12:01:01 PM »
A third seed is germinated this morning.  It has at least 2 seedlings coming from it.  So some are monoembryonic, some are multiembryonic.  Sample size of 3 gives no real statistical information.  But at least I know some are monoembryonic and some aren't.  I have 19 of these planted.  I expect more will germinate.  Every one will give a little more information about percent monoembryonic.
I'll have to sort them and keep track of which are which.
And someone recently posted that percent monoembryonic is influenced by pollen parent.  I expect temperature during growth of seeds before harvest might also influence it.  So much to learn.

Ilya11

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2019, 10:49:38 AM »
In the last issue of  Citrograph there is an interesting article on the breeding of early flowering trait in citruses, mostly by transgenic approach. But they also put a figure ( non-explained in the text) on the breeding of Eremocitrus early-flowering into oranges.

Best regards,
                       Ilya

Millet

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2019, 12:14:14 PM »
I read that article, found it very interesting indeed, but rather difficult to completely understand in its entirety.

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2019, 01:26:58 PM »
 Wow!

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2019, 01:34:34 PM »
"A different approach uses a citrus tristeza virus (CTV) vector (which was partially constructed by others and generously provided to us) containing the FT3 gene for in planta expression. The virus can be delivered to already established plants, and the FT gene sequence is expressed in the citrus plant, but not incorporated into the genome; "

That is too good to be true :) but probably it will stay in the scientific world :(

Breeding with Eremocitrus (and other southeastern Citrusi) s my favorite way for me as amateur. Good to read about these results.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 01:36:39 PM by mikkel »

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2019, 04:51:21 AM »
Mikkel, do I get you right? This FT gene sequence induces early blooming but does not effect fruit quality, size etc.? And it won't be transferred to a next generation? Neither via hybridisation nor via nucellar cloning?

mikkel

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Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2019, 03:12:08 PM »
That is how I understand it. It sounds like a huge candy bag :) .
Just let this vector infect any plant with this genetic modified virus and it will start to flower, FT3 gene will not be incorporated in the DNS but is although active in proteine synthesis. My understanding is it might be an RNS transfer from the virus to the host which lead to proteine synthesis based on FT3. Virus RNS will not change the DNS of the host.
By law any offspring will not be labelled as GMO.

 

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