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Author Topic: Avocado thread  (Read 55270 times)

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #225 on: May 05, 2018, 10:40:53 AM »
Did someone take a shit under your tree to get the flies Mark? ;) I've never seen a fly in my yard on a flower. Good luck to you...I know you had a rough winter. Chris

Not that I know of. 

I have some really strange pollinators, 100's of them at any given time.  Those are houseflies, have others that have that shiny blue butt....so purty!  Bees, moths, butterflies.  Being in the country helps.

I have the little flies on my flowers too mark.  You aren't alone.
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #226 on: May 05, 2018, 12:07:21 PM »
Do you guys know what kind of dwarf avocado is at Lowe's? I would like to get a GEM avocado. I figured out my soil is clay, so I would have to grow it in a 15 gallon or raised planter. Not having any luck coming across GEM. Any other dwarf suggestions that you guys think is good tasting and abundant of fruit? Or should I just get the lowe's dwarf.

It's a Wurtz aka "little cado" aka dwarf cado.  That's the best one to grow in a container.  I would use a 25 or 40 gallon container though.  15G container is still small evendors for a dwarf tree.
Brad Spaugh

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #227 on: May 05, 2018, 01:28:50 PM »
Did someone take a shit under your tree to get the flies Mark? ;) I've never seen a fly in my yard on a flower. Good luck to you...I know you had a rough winter. Chris
I read somewhere that you can spray a low honey/water solution on and near the undersides of the avocado flowers to attract pollinators.  My yard is fully abuzz with honey bees (and a couple bumble and hummingbird), but they stay clear of the Avocado focusing on the lavender, citrus, apple and peach in that order.  They also ignore my tomato flowers, so long ago I took to using a vibrating toothbrush to pollinate the toms, which led to over fruiting.  Now, I'm more lazy and leave it to the wind.

So I tried the honey on my Fuerte when it was in heavy bloom a few weeks back, and the tree was attacked by every fly and other type of nasty bug with wings in the area, though still no bees.  Regardless, it seemed to set a lot of fruit.  The problem is I doubt any will hold on.  There's still probably 50 small 1-2cm fruit on the tree, but they aren't very green.  Most seem to be turning brown (sunburn?).  I need to figure out what I'm going to do with these three potted avocado trees I've got.  Right now, they've nearly dropped all of their leaves from last year.  I'll probably post on them in another thread I had opened on the topic.  Good luck with the flies.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #228 on: May 05, 2018, 01:49:45 PM »
Avocados shed their leaves this time of year and will flush new leaves.
Brad Spaugh

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #229 on: May 05, 2018, 03:37:20 PM »
Avocados shed their leaves this time of year and will flush new leaves.
Hi Spaugh-

I know that the CA, particularly Northern CA, avocado trees will drop leaves in Spring and push out a new flush of growth.  But I wonder if your trees have dropped as many leaves as have mine.

Here's a picture of the trees from a while back when I was worried about the yellowing leaves:


Here's what they look like today.  They've dropped 50% of the leaves over the past week (probably more):













One of the reasons I'm concerned with such a heavy leaf drop is that it exposes the entire tree, trunk, branches, fruitlings and all to sunburn.  The fruit set on my Fuerte seem to be cooking in the sun:





In the end, I'm probably just fighting a losing battle with these trees stuck in their constricting pots.  If they fail to hold any viable fruit this early season, I'll probably cut them to stumps, topple the 500lb pots, pull them out, root-prune and then try and re-pot in expandable RBII containers; maybe top-work a few.  I don't like having such unhealthy, unfruitful trees.

owenismo

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #230 on: May 05, 2018, 04:46:20 PM »
Do you guys know what kind of dwarf avocado is at Lowe's? I would like to get a GEM avocado. I figured out my soil is clay, so I would have to grow it in a 15 gallon or raised planter. Not having any luck coming across GEM. Any other dwarf suggestions that you guys think is good tasting and abundant of fruit? Or should I just get the lowe's dwarf.

It's a Wurtz aka "little cado" aka dwarf cado.  That's the best one to grow in a container.  I would use a 25 or 40 gallon container though.  15G container is still small evendors for a dwarf tree.


Thanks Brad, do you think I should wait it out and try and get a GEM or do you think the Wurtz fruit is pretty good. Cuz I dont see Wurtz or Little Cado on your guy's list. GEM is also somewhat dwarf correct?

alangr088

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #231 on: May 06, 2018, 01:17:13 AM »
Did someone take a shit under your tree to get the flies Mark? ;) I've never seen a fly in my yard on a flower. Good luck to you...I know you had a rough winter. Chris

Not that I know of. 

I have some really strange pollinators, 100's of them at any given time.  Those are houseflies, have others that have that shiny blue butt....so purty!  Bees, moths, butterflies.  Being in the country helps.

I have the little flies on my flowers too mark.  You aren't alone.

I also had* flies and bees all over my trees.






Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #232 on: May 06, 2018, 08:31:49 AM »
Avocados shed their leaves this time of year and will flush new leaves.
Hi Spaugh-

I know that the CA, particularly Northern CA, avocado trees will drop leaves in Spring and push out a new flush of growth.  But I wonder if your trees have dropped as many leaves as have mine.

Not Brad but my two cents.....that's not normal.  If they're being replaced in mass by new leaves then not so bad.  I would definately pop one out of the pot to inspect the root system.  When you have that kind of problem the root system is the usual suspect.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #233 on: May 06, 2018, 11:09:10 AM »
z_willus_d, They are ready to go in the ground. That will make them happy. It's an uphill battle keeping them alive in pots another year.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #234 on: May 06, 2018, 11:12:40 AM »
I have big trees with 0 leaves completely covered in flowers.  It's totally normal.  They flush hard shortly after.  It happens every year.  They don't all do it as abruptly but they all shed leaves and do new flush in spring.  I have 6 hass trees and they seem to do it the most pronounced.  When they do it, they should be flowering.

But I do agree, putting in ground would be best for them. 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 11:46:33 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #235 on: May 06, 2018, 11:50:10 AM »
Do you guys know what kind of dwarf avocado is at Lowe's? I would like to get a GEM avocado. I figured out my soil is clay, so I would have to grow it in a 15 gallon or raised planter. Not having any luck coming across GEM. Any other dwarf suggestions that you guys think is good tasting and abundant of fruit? Or should I just get the lowe's dwarf.

It's a Wurtz aka "little cado" aka dwarf cado.  That's the best one to grow in a container.  I would use a 25 or 40 gallon container though.  15G container is still small evendors for a dwarf tree.


Thanks Brad, do you think I should wait it out and try and get a GEM or do you think the Wurtz fruit is pretty good. Cuz I dont see Wurtz or Little Cado on your guy's list. GEM is also somewhat dwarf correct?

I haven't tried either fruit and am not growing either.  If I see those types I will pick them up and grow them soon.  The GEM may be a smallish tree but I don't think it's a container tree.  Wurtz, based on what I've read is the only true dwarf avocado that would be OK in a pot.  You should really still use as large of a pot as possible.  15gal is not going to produce much fruit.
Brad Spaugh

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #236 on: May 06, 2018, 12:47:24 PM »
Brad's comments about zero leaves this time of year applies up here in San Luis Obispo County too.  A drive down to Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties will show the same.  Most trees will have some leaves still, but are at their annual replacement.  Most year-old leaves show the effect of salt burn on the tips and more.  Our water is transpired through the leaves, but the salts stay behind causing that effect. A bit of whitewash might be needed.  In a month new leaves will be doing their job until next year.

As to GEM, my GEM is from Brokaw, on their rootstock, but a poor grower relative to other avocados.  It is not only a slow grower, but lanky and generally weak.  It does produce a decent amount of avocados of good quality.  I think other avocados would do better as "dwarfs" or with annual pruning.  It will continue to occupy its spot as it has been for 5 years, but if space is needed, it's gone.  Really hard to get 5 years ago, had to call in some favors.  Maybe not worth it.

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #237 on: May 06, 2018, 01:22:11 PM »
I have big trees with 0 leaves completely covered in flowers.  It's totally normal.  They flush hard shortly after.  It happens every year.  They don't all do it as abruptly but they all shed leaves and do new flush in spring.  I have 6 hass trees and they seem to do it the most pronounced.  When they do it, they should be flowering.

But I do agree, putting in ground would be best for them.
Hi Bush2Beach, Brad, Jack- I have no ground to lend these trees.  The ground beneath them is riddled with the roots from the neighbors' 12 year old plum and pear trees.  Do you think the trees will actually die in their pots if properly watered and fertilized?  As I wrote, the plan will be to dry out the soil, topple them, prune a bunch of their lower and side roots, decapitate (maybe in a different order) and re-pot in an expandable container.  Now that does sound like a tall hill to climb for mediocre avocados that may never show, but I don't see an alternative.  These trees dropped leaves starting at flowering and again at new growth flush last year and the years before, but for some reason it seems more pronounced this year.

Thanks for the advise.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 01:24:56 PM by z_willus_d »

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #238 on: May 06, 2018, 02:40:08 PM »
If it was me, I would go to harbor freight and buy a 11 amp jackhammer.  And I would get some root barrier material.  Then I would dig some huge holes right where the neighbors roots are in YOUR yard.  Dig em right out down a couple feet deep and 3 or 4 ft wide.  If you can get a mini excavator in the side there, I'd rent one of those instead of the jackhammer and have that suckered dug up pronto.

 Then I'd line the property line with the root barrier.  And plop my trees in MY holes on MY property.  If the neighbors trees suffer, oh well. 

Sorry if that upsets people.  I wouldn't do it to be a jerk.  Just that you have precious space and you want to grow stuff.  I wouldn't let the neighbors tree roots stop me if I was in that situation. 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 02:42:41 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #239 on: May 06, 2018, 10:49:33 PM »
I agree 1000%  ;)
Lorenzo

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #240 on: May 07, 2018, 12:48:18 AM »
Thanks for the input Jack and Brad. I will probably try and plant the little cado in the ground after I dig a huge hole. The clay soil here sucks. I will probably look for another spot if I find a GEM or something of that nature. I have a few Hass and Fuerte but they are all in pots because they won't be able to survive the clay soil

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #241 on: May 07, 2018, 01:19:46 AM »
I went and looked at my trees today.  They aren't completely leafless but several of them have dropped most leaves and are in fruit set stage still.  Others have already flushed and have all new leaves.  The trees won't get cooked, they will flush before summer hits hard.  It was in the 90s here today and I am not at all concerned about sun exposure. 

Here's a young reed and a hass tree that have dropped leaves but not flushed yet.  The trees are using the energy from last year's leaves to make flowers and set fruit.  They look like a mess now but will look perfectly green in a month.





« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 01:34:35 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #242 on: May 07, 2018, 02:53:25 AM »
So it's normal my avocado who has fruitlets of about a walnut size has about 60% of leaves yellowing and falling down?
the lower portion of the tree with less fruits looks still green
Lorenzo

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #243 on: May 07, 2018, 07:59:38 AM »
Thanks for the input Jack and Brad. I will probably try and plant the little cado in the ground after I dig a huge hole. The clay soil here sucks. I will probably look for another spot if I find a GEM or something of that nature. I have a few Hass and Fuerte but they are all in pots because they won't be able to survive the clay soil

Don't dig a hole, plant in a raised bed or 16" high mound.  Avocados have a shallow but very wide root system.  They also benefit from a thick mulch.  The fine white roots can be found right under that mulch at ground level.  Here's a shot of a very young but bearing, Don Gilloughy avocado using 2 layers of cinder tree rings.  Grew like a weed.  Native soil was a high pH calcareous black clay gumbo.  Water source was hard with a high TDS too.  Notice the quality of the leaves - no burn.  This was 15 years ago.  I moved and the new owners killed it.



Fruit had a necky profile like a Pinkerton.


« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 08:02:04 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #244 on: May 07, 2018, 08:06:12 AM »
Looks great Brad.  FWIW if any of you do have a problem with sunburn reach for the Surround wettable powder first.  About a TBSP or two in a gallon and you'll have a nice white cover that's pretty darn rain fast.  Easy peasy.....  It also a good pesticide.  3 coats and hard to control pests like the gray leaf footed stinkbug won't bother your fruit.  http://novasource.com/home/products/surround/


Bitterlick

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #245 on: May 07, 2018, 10:57:30 AM »
Hello:

I did post a separate thread on this, but can anyone opine on the Oro Negro or the Wurtz avocado trees? We have tried--and loved--the Oro Negro, but our space is limited and we do not have room for a 30ft tree with an enormous canopy. Thus we are considering the Wurtz. How is the flavor of the Wurtz? Can the Oro Negro be pruned and confined to a height of 15ft or so, and a diameter of 10ft?

Thanks!

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #246 on: May 07, 2018, 02:37:14 PM »
Brad, I appreciate you sharing your pics.  You've got a beautiful hillside landscape in the background there.  Short of the density of healthy flowers showing in your trees, I'd say my trees look similar to yours in terms of old leaf drop and new leaves pushing out.  It looks like you've managed to keep your trees short and stout.  Do you prune, and if so when are you pruning.  I pruned these three trees of mine just before flowering (well the Fuerte had already set the flower buds, but not yet opened them).  I cut back the trees by several feet in height.  I've read pruning a tree will result in a commensurate loss in root mass, but maybe that's not such a bad thing in the containers.  I don't think it's an ideal time to prune just before winter, since we can expect a lot of the growth on the periphery to take the most cold damage.  That's good candidate wood for pruning in late Winter/Early Spring, no?

As for the Jack-Hammer and root barrier idea, I had considered it (and I do have a nice Jack-hammer), but my property rests on a hill of a kind of breccia which is a mixture of lava-flow cement and boulders of various sizes.  They Civil Engineer I purchased it from indicated explosives would be required for any significant "digging down."  I've managed to excavate small holes and trenches here and there, but it's really an intense effort.  The top foot of top-soil/sand, decomposed detritus is where the neighboring fruit trees run amok.  I think it will be very hard to block them out entirely.  Finally, I have some idea of moving and with trees in the mid/late 5-10 year time-frame.  I know it makes little sense to transport mature avocado trees, but I also know that investing too much into a garden paradise will be a mental block for me in moving on.  At any rate, I'd really love to find a way to produce 5, 10, 20 avocados in a pot and keep a tree or two alive indefinitely.  I view it as a kind of challenge.  That's why I embarked on the project described in this thread:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27629.0

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #247 on: May 07, 2018, 02:40:50 PM »
Thanks for the input Jack and Brad. I will probably try and plant the little cado in the ground after I dig a huge hole. The clay soil here sucks. I will probably look for another spot if I find a GEM or something of that nature. I have a few Hass and Fuerte but they are all in pots because they won't be able to survive the clay soil

Don't dig a hole, plant in a raised bed or 16" high mound.  Avocados have a shallow but very wide root system.  They also benefit from a thick mulch.  The fine white roots can be found right under that mulch at ground level.  Here's a shot of a very young but bearing, Don Gilloughy avocado using 2 layers of cinder tree rings.  Grew like a weed.  Native soil was a high pH calcareous black clay gumbo.  Water source was hard with a high TDS too.  Notice the quality of the leaves - no burn.  This was 15 years ago.  I moved and the new owners killed it.

Fruit had a necky profile like a Pinkerton.

That's a lovely tree yo uhad there Mark.  Did it get some protection or shade from an overarching tree?  I have a front-yard that's sparse with just a lawn into which I'm thinking of planting an avocado tree, or two, or three.  Maybe I'll transplant the Fuerte next Spring if I can't get any of my Duke from Oroville grafts to take.  If I do plant out front, I'll definitely setup a raised bed similar to what you have there, but likely without the cemented bricks (that's a skill beyond me).  Too bad they lost the tree.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #248 on: May 07, 2018, 03:08:54 PM »
That's a lovely tree yo uhad there Mark.  Did it get some protection or shade from an overarching tree?  I have a front-yard that's sparse with just a lawn into which I'm thinking of planting an avocado tree, or two, or three.  Maybe I'll transplant the Fuerte next Spring if I can't get any of my Duke from Oroville grafts to take.  If I do plant out front, I'll definitely setup a raised bed similar to what you have there, but likely without the cemented bricks (that's a skill beyond me).  Too bad they lost the tree.

Got a little shade from an adjacent tree part of the day.  If memory serves me correct that tree was only about 2 years old there.  Got it by mail about 3' tall.

Same here, concrete skills suck.  First try at mudding.  Ended up running a band around the base.

Check out this expansion I did yesterday to an Oro Negro pot.  It's now 100 gallons!  Oh my broken back.  :-\ Took about 3/4 of a tractor bucket just to backfill the 4" space around the perimeter.  Avocado seedlings on the left, recovering citrus in the back, new rectangular 6' W pitaya bed in the rear left.  Sharwil, Jan Boyce, Pinkerton and GEM scions should arrive within the hour via USPS.  Will top work this Oro Negro, completely change it over.  its' OK fruit.  Not great like Reed.



spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #249 on: May 07, 2018, 03:41:47 PM »
Brad, I appreciate you sharing your pics.  You've got a beautiful hillside landscape in the background there.  Short of the density of healthy flowers showing in your trees, I'd say my trees look similar to yours in terms of old leaf drop and new leaves pushing out.  It looks like you've managed to keep your trees short and stout.  Do you prune, and if so when are you pruning.  I pruned these three trees of mine just before flowering (well the Fuerte had already set the flower buds, but not yet opened them).  I cut back the trees by several feet in height.  I've read pruning a tree will result in a commensurate loss in root mass, but maybe that's not such a bad thing in the containers.  I don't think it's an ideal time to prune just before winter, since we can expect a lot of the growth on the periphery to take the most cold damage.  That's good candidate wood for pruning in late Winter/Early Spring, no?

As for the Jack-Hammer and root barrier idea, I had considered it (and I do have a nice Jack-hammer), but my property rests on a hill of a kind of breccia which is a mixture of lava-flow cement and boulders of various sizes.  They Civil Engineer I purchased it from indicated explosives would be required for any significant "digging down."  I've managed to excavate small holes and trenches here and there, but it's really an intense effort.  The top foot of top-soil/sand, decomposed detritus is where the neighboring fruit trees run amok.  I think it will be very hard to block them out entirely.  Finally, I have some idea of moving and with trees in the mid/late 5-10 year time-frame.  I know it makes little sense to transport mature avocado trees, but I also know that investing too much into a garden paradise will be a mental block for me in moving on.  At any rate, I'd really love to find a way to produce 5, 10, 20 avocados in a pot and keep a tree or two alive indefinitely.  I view it as a kind of challenge.  That's why I embarked on the project described in this thread:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27629.0


Lots of challenges it sounds like.  Bad soil is a bummer.  Where I grew up in stockton it was rich black clay soil.  Doesn't drain well but was super rich soil.  My place down here is all decomposed granite.  Super good for growing stuff.  I can dig a hole and fill with 10 gallons of water and it drains down in 10 minutes.

For trimming, a little haircut anytime of the year is fine.  If you want to do major pruning it might be best in fall if you will be exposing a lot of wood.  Or early summer would be fine if not exposing a lot of wood.  To be honest I just prune whenever it needs it.  You just need to keep in mind the flowers grow on new growth.  So if you cut in early summer, the new growth can form where the cuts are made and can set fruit next spring.  If you cut during fall and winter, those areas won't be able to set fruit.

The tree in the photo is only a couple years old.  I topped it a little to make it wide and not tall.  I prune the trees for the first few years to shape and then let them go.  I have only been here 4 years so nothing I have is very old. 



« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 03:48:58 PM by spaugh »
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