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Author Topic: Avocado thread  (Read 45689 times)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #525 on: April 23, 2019, 09:13:44 AM »
My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #526 on: April 23, 2019, 09:16:20 AM »
I am hoping that they are not on too tightly and that I will break the union while trying to remove them.   

Tip - pinch and then rock them to unstick them from the buddy tape and if need be slide them down away from the graft before taking them off.

jtnguyen333

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #527 on: April 23, 2019, 10:22:35 AM »
Hi Mark..this is a mystery to me because I attached this filter to my irrigation and when I water it using my hose, I use this filter too.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-52700-Flexible-Protector-Hydroponics/dp/B01N8TYQ9W?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Updated:  I just found out that the filter I've been using raised the ph of water by 2 according to an amazon review.  So the water is extremely alkaline.  Could this be the cause?

My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:56:04 AM by jtnguyen333 »

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #528 on: April 23, 2019, 11:19:25 AM »
Hi Mark..this is a mystery to me because I attached this filter to my irrigation and when I water it using my hose, I use this filter too.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-52700-Flexible-Protector-Hydroponics/dp/B01N8TYQ9W?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Updated:  I just found out that the filter I've been using raised the ph of water by 2 according to an amazon review.  So the water is extremely alkaline.  Could this be the cause?

My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.

City water is already pretty high.  Do you have an RO system in your house?  Thats what you want to use if you have it
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #529 on: April 23, 2019, 11:33:35 AM »
I'm planning to put an RO system under the kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.  Do I use the waste water from the RO for watering?
Hi Mark..this is a mystery to me because I attached this filter to my irrigation and when I water it using my hose, I use this filter too.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-52700-Flexible-Protector-Hydroponics/dp/B01N8TYQ9W?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Updated:  I just found out that the filter I've been using raised the ph of water by 2 according to an amazon review.  So the water is extremely alkaline.  Could this be the cause?

My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.

City water is already pretty high.  Do you have an RO system in your house?  Thats what you want to use if you have it

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #530 on: April 23, 2019, 12:36:03 PM »
I'm planning to put an RO system under the kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.  Do I use the waste water from the RO for watering?
Hi Mark..this is a mystery to me because I attached this filter to my irrigation and when I water it using my hose, I use this filter too.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-52700-Flexible-Protector-Hydroponics/dp/B01N8TYQ9W?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Updated:  I just found out that the filter I've been using raised the ph of water by 2 according to an amazon review.  So the water is extremely alkaline.  Could this be the cause?

My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.

City water is already pretty high.  Do you have an RO system in your house?  Thats what you want to use if you have it

Absolutely NOT.  You need to use the clean water.  The waste has 2X the salt/garbage as the already bad water going into it.
Brad Spaugh

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #531 on: April 23, 2019, 10:51:57 PM »
I recently transplanted three of my oldest Avocado trees from large 40 gal containers into beds that I carved out of my very inhospitable front yard.  The holes I dug were at least an extra foot deep from the containers and about 3x their width.  I tried to set the trees slightly above grade.  The fill mixture I used was around 1/2 native soil (minus the natural cement and boulders) + 1/4 part peat moss + 1/4 various forest humus, compost, worm castings, and pathfines bark.  On the top, I thew in several bags of coco hulls (the General Hydroponics brand -- knock on wood), and then a final layer of wood chips (Douglas Fir).

These trees tend to drop their leaves each year in early Spring.  This year, they're dropping more than normal.  I had to tear up a fair amount of the roots bound up a the bottom of the large pots.  I'm just posting this to see if anyone has any thoughts on best practices and tips to ensure these trees have the best chance at survival.  They should have been transplanted many years back, so this is far from ideal.  I'm entirely new to growing avocados in the ground, though I have several potted trees.

Here are some pics...


Before (in containers):








After (in ground):
















barath

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #532 on: April 24, 2019, 12:26:11 AM »
You might toss some 50% shade cloth over the ones that have lost a some of their leaves, because when avocados get sunburn they really struggle, then lose more leaves, and it's a downward spiral.  I've had bad luck with amended soil with avocados, because the roots don't really spread out properly from the amended area, but I guess you mixed it so maybe it'll be fine.

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #533 on: April 24, 2019, 12:38:54 AM »
Hi Barath, this area is requires jack hammers and more to move inches of dirt.  It's all breccia, or a kind of lava flow cement intermixed with a bit of clay, sand and a lot of river rock and boulders.  I spent four weekends and several weeknight evenings just digging out the three holes. Trying to grow the avocado in the "soil" as it was would have been no different than growing in another container.  I tried to incorporate as much of the native soil and gravel as I could without producing a hard impenetrable medium.  If there's any way to encourage the roots to seek out and branch, I'd love to know of it. 

The shade cloth makes sense, and I had considered it.  But, my neighbors are already giving a lot of concerned glances and questions with all the front yard work, and I fear a bunch of shade-cloth would put me over the edge.  A few of them have already called the city on me a few years back due to the look of my backyard, so I can't really push it.  I'd whitewash (or surround), but same concern.  I appreciate the input.

tve

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #534 on: April 24, 2019, 01:08:37 AM »
Quote
A few of them have already called the city on me a few years back due to the look of my backyard, so I can't really push it.  I'd whitewash (or surround), but same concern.

Move to a sane place!  :o

zephian

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #535 on: April 24, 2019, 01:16:23 AM »
I paint mine with a 'natural' brown paint.
Mine have dropped alot of leaves this year. (Mostly my Hass)

I'm still a couple weekends out on putting mine in the ground (mounded) huge undertaking in my back yard.
-Kris

Oolie

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #536 on: April 24, 2019, 01:19:25 AM »
I'm planning to put an RO system under the kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.  Do I use the waste water from the RO for watering?
Hi Mark..this is a mystery to me because I attached this filter to my irrigation and when I water it using my hose, I use this filter too.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-52700-Flexible-Protector-Hydroponics/dp/B01N8TYQ9W?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Updated:  I just found out that the filter I've been using raised the ph of water by 2 according to an amazon review.  So the water is extremely alkaline.  Could this be the cause?

My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.

City water is already pretty high.  Do you have an RO system in your house?  Thats what you want to use if you have it

What are you using for rootstock?
The salt sensitivity depends strongly on the choice of rootstock, if you were using florida watercado rootstock, you may have no issues with salt irrigating with RO waste.

barath

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #537 on: April 24, 2019, 09:55:22 AM »
Hi Barath, this area is requires jack hammers and more to move inches of dirt.  It's all breccia, or a kind of lava flow cement intermixed with a bit of clay, sand and a lot of river rock and boulders.  I spent four weekends and several weeknight evenings just digging out the three holes. Trying to grow the avocado in the "soil" as it was would have been no different than growing in another container.  I tried to incorporate as much of the native soil and gravel as I could without producing a hard impenetrable medium.  If there's any way to encourage the roots to seek out and branch, I'd love to know of it. 

The shade cloth makes sense, and I had considered it.  But, my neighbors are already giving a lot of concerned glances and questions with all the front yard work, and I fear a bunch of shade-cloth would put me over the edge.  A few of them have already called the city on me a few years back due to the look of my backyard, so I can't really push it.  I'd whitewash (or surround), but same concern.  I appreciate the input.

Ah, hmm.  That sounds like a tough environment to grow them in.  The suggestion above of using light brown latex paint instead of white seems like a good compromise option.  I might still go with lots of coffee grounds and tree trimming mulch at a good distance away from the trees, to encourage the feeder roots to go out and get nutrients beyond the planting hole.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #538 on: April 24, 2019, 10:21:22 AM »
I'm planning to put an RO system under the kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.  Do I use the waste water from the RO for watering?
Hi Mark..this is a mystery to me because I attached this filter to my irrigation and when I water it using my hose, I use this filter too.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-52700-Flexible-Protector-Hydroponics/dp/B01N8TYQ9W?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Updated:  I just found out that the filter I've been using raised the ph of water by 2 according to an amazon review.  So the water is extremely alkaline.  Could this be the cause?

My Reed is dropping old leaves. It's normal this time of the year.

yep

But leaf tip/margin burn on new leaves suggests salts are too high at the roots.  Since that's not from fertilizer must be from your water source  jtnguyen333.

City water is already pretty high.  Do you have an RO system in your house?  Thats what you want to use if you have it

What are you using for rootstock?
The salt sensitivity depends strongly on the choice of rootstock, if you were using florida watercado rootstock, you may have no issues with salt irrigating with RO waste.

Why arent CA groves on west indian rootstocks?  If that were the case why wouldnt everyone use them?  Why bother with clonal stocks etc. 

By the way, I am not implying they arent more salt tolerant.  It just seems odd comercial groves arent all using it.  Maybe just lack of seeds here or is there some other downside to WI rootstocks?

Edit:  Google says they arent cold tolerant and thats why noone in CA uses it. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 10:54:00 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

jtnguyen333

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #539 on: April 24, 2019, 10:45:27 AM »
I planted two avocado trees so far Sir Prize and Reed.  My Sir Prize is thriving but the Reed is struggling a bit so I don't know if what I did is right or not.  Both time I followed Gary of Laguna Hills Nursery on youtube on planting avocado.  I used mostly DG, peat moss, and pumice and a little bit of native soil backfill.  In his video, he didn't use any organics as backfill.  He only compost as top dressing.
I recently transplanted three of my oldest Avocado trees from large 40 gal containers into beds that I carved out of my very inhospitable front yard.  The holes I dug were at least an extra foot deep from the containers and about 3x their width.  I tried to set the trees slightly above grade.  The fill mixture I used was around 1/2 native soil (minus the natural cement and boulders) + 1/4 part peat moss + 1/4 various forest humus, compost, worm castings, and pathfines bark.  On the top, I thew in several bags of coco hulls (the General Hydroponics brand -- knock on wood), and then a final layer of wood chips (Douglas Fir).

These trees tend to drop their leaves each year in early Spring.  This year, they're dropping more than normal.  I had to tear up a fair amount of the roots bound up a the bottom of the large pots.  I'm just posting this to see if anyone has any thoughts on best practices and tips to ensure these trees have the best chance at survival.  They should have been transplanted many years back, so this is far from ideal.  I'm entirely new to growing avocados in the ground, though I have several potted trees.

Here are some pics...


Before (in containers):








After (in ground):
















tve

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #540 on: April 24, 2019, 03:16:05 PM »

Why arent CA groves on west indian rootstocks?  If that were the case why wouldnt everyone use them?  Why bother with clonal stocks etc. 

By the way, I am not implying they arent more salt tolerant.  It just seems odd comercial groves arent all using it.  Maybe just lack of seeds here or is there some other downside to WI rootstocks?

Edit:  Google says they arent cold tolerant and thats why noone in CA uses it. 

Thanks for the question and the update! I just had an email exchange with Laverne nursery and they say they graft their avos on Zutano rootstock. I just ate 3 Macarthur avos I got at the farmers market a week ago and they were delicious (not like Haas, more like a Reed, i.e. less oil but more citrus and fruit flavor). They're apparently good rootstock, so now I'm trying to germinate the pits...

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #541 on: April 24, 2019, 07:15:35 PM »
H Barath, good tips.  I'll consider those.  jtnguyen333- do you have any pics of your trees?  I assume you gave both the same soil mix treatment and exposure.  I pretty much used a similar mix to what you did, but I did mix-in the compost and wormcastings, etc. in the top 6-9".  I haven't yet setup the sprinkler subsystem for these trees.  I'm trying to decide between soaker hoses beneath the mulch vs. over head sprinklers, or slow drip.

Bananaizme

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #542 on: April 24, 2019, 07:28:29 PM »
I have had trouble growing avocados in this yard more so than any of my previous yards, itís been a real mystery too because the soil is fairly decent for drainage so over the years I have killed many 5 gallon, 15 gallon etc.  I got to thinking back on my 2nd house and the yard there which was mostly sand. Avocados grew like weeds there . Anyway I too talked to Gary at laguna hills nursery last fall and he told me about his yard at his house which was adobe clay. He said that he killed tree after tree just like me and then he went and got a couple of pickup loads of sand and planted two trees on the mounded sand piles. He said that the trees exploded with growth .  I just got two pickup loads and will be doing the same thing here. I bought 4 liner starts from him last trip south and planted them in 3 gallon pots with sand and a small amount of potting soil and they have been in a constant flush of growth since I did that. They have more than doubled in size. These 4 liner starts will be planted in root pruning pots like Mark uses.

 William

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #543 on: April 24, 2019, 07:45:46 PM »
I have had trouble growing avocados in this yard more so than any of my previous yards, itís been a real mystery too because the soil is fairly decent for drainage so over the years I have killed many 5 gallon, 15 gallon etc.  I got to thinking back on my 2nd house and the yard there which was mostly sand. Avocados grew like weeds there . Anyway I too talked to Gary at laguna hills nursery last fall and he told me about his yard at his house which was adobe clay. He said that he killed tree after tree just like me and then he went and got a couple of pickup loads of sand and planted two trees on the mounded sand piles. He said that the trees exploded with growth .  I just got two pickup loads and will be doing the same thing here. I bought 4 liner starts from him last trip south and planted them in 3 gallon pots with sand and a small amount of potting soil and they have been in a constant flush of growth since I did that. They have more than doubled in size. These 4 liner starts will be planted in root pruning pots like Mark uses.

 William

You may want to try avocodo on salt tolerant clonal rootstock from https://www.elisfarmsnursery.com/ and see if they will grow in your soil without any amendment. Only thing is trees they sell are like seedling size in tall 5 gallon pot.

Bananaizme

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #544 on: April 24, 2019, 08:06:58 PM »
    Hawkfish007

 Yes I talked to him in February and was prepared to buy some trees from him the first weekend in March but he sold out of all the varieties that I was looking for. Iím going to try this sand first since I already bought it. Hopefully Iíll get the same results like Gary did.

 William

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #545 on: April 24, 2019, 11:34:19 PM »
Sand eh?  I'll be interested to hear your results through the year and the future.  I think Brad said his soil is mostly DG, which is quite sandy.  What did you use for a soil mix on all the dead attempts?

tve

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #546 on: April 24, 2019, 11:38:17 PM »
I bought 4 liner starts from him last trip south
Thanks for the pointers, I have to try sand as well! I wanted to ask, what are 'liner starts'?

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #547 on: April 24, 2019, 11:40:22 PM »
This video goes over pretty well how to deal with poor soil.


https://youtu.be/U26i4J9yv10
Brad Spaugh

zephian

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #548 on: April 24, 2019, 11:47:09 PM »
This video goes over pretty well how to deal with poor soil.


https://youtu.be/U26i4J9yv10

Mark makes the best videos! I can't help but smile, he's so pumped!
-Kris

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #549 on: April 24, 2019, 11:58:28 PM »
Very nice video.  Scares me though.  I don't know that my soil is clay based so much as very, very poor, rocky, and cement-ish (like a dry mortar in places).  It drains fairly well from what I can tell, and I did jack-hammer holes all around the bottom of my "beds."  I wonder if the points he was making will apply to 7+ year old transplants, as are the case in my situation.  Do the tap-roots wake up and work downward after being snubbed for so long?

 

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