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Author Topic: Avocado thread  (Read 55236 times)

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #550 on: April 25, 2019, 12:51:17 AM »
Your trees are pretty big so they will probably be ok.  On your sprinkler selection I would go with a spinning type that puts out a large radius evenly wetting everything.  You want to get the area outside of the holes wet to encourage the roots to spread and to help improve the native dirt. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #551 on: April 25, 2019, 01:11:50 AM »
How important is using a root rot resistant rootstock in SoCal? I want to plan a couple of plants in the ground and I'm in Santa Barbara county. Clearly phytophtora is a problem in the wider area, but I'm several miles away, uphill and generally upwind from the closest commercial planting. The soil here is totally sandy and on a slope, thus drains well. As far as I can tell the trees found in retail nurseries are on seedling rootstock (Laverne, which supplies a large fraction of nurseries here uses Zutano). I'm wondering whether it's really necessary for me to locate plants on clonal rootstock, any thoughts/experiences?

Due to the wildfires having affected some of the growers (Brokaw in particular) it's almost impossible to find any avo plants in the larger area. Commercial growers are telling me they haven't been able to get any plants either. If I have to get clonal rootstock I'm probably best off just forgetting about all this for a couple of years...

z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #552 on: April 25, 2019, 01:16:21 AM »
How important is using a root rot resistant rootstock in SoCal? I want to plan a couple of plants in the ground and I'm in Santa Barbara county. Clearly phytophtora is a problem in the wider area, but I'm several miles away, uphill and generally upwind from the closest commercial planting. The soil here is totally sandy and on a slope, thus drains well. As far as I can tell the trees found in retail nurseries are on seedling rootstock (Laverne, which supplies a large fraction of nurseries here uses Zutano). I'm wondering whether it's really necessary for me to locate plants on clonal rootstock, any thoughts/experiences?

Due to the wildfires having affected some of the growers (Brokaw in particular) it's almost impossible to find any avo plants in the larger area. Commercial growers are telling me they haven't been able to get any plants either. If I have to get clonal rootstock I'm probably best off just forgetting about all this for a couple of years...
Yes, that's what I had in mind.  I'm worried about having the trunk get wet and blistering, so I'm thinking of an array of micro-spraying heads distributed throughout the bed.  For now, I'm just hosing it in about once a week - around 10-min of light flow.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #553 on: April 25, 2019, 01:21:33 AM »
How important is using a root rot resistant rootstock in SoCal? I want to plan a couple of plants in the ground and I'm in Santa Barbara county. Clearly phytophtora is a problem in the wider area, but I'm several miles away, uphill and generally upwind from the closest commercial planting. The soil here is totally sandy and on a slope, thus drains well. As far as I can tell the trees found in retail nurseries are on seedling rootstock (Laverne, which supplies a large fraction of nurseries here uses Zutano). I'm wondering whether it's really necessary for me to locate plants on clonal rootstock, any thoughts/experiences?

Due to the wildfires having affected some of the growers (Brokaw in particular) it's almost impossible to find any avo plants in the larger area. Commercial growers are telling me they haven't been able to get any plants either. If I have to get clonal rootstock I'm probably best off just forgetting about all this for a couple of years...

Seedling rootstock are fine.  Probably more vigorous than clonal rootstock.  Since you are on a hill of sand you dont need to worry a lot about root rot.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #554 on: April 25, 2019, 01:30:44 AM »
If you have well draining soil and water properly phytophthora probably won't be an issue especially if it is not already established.  I was able to acquire a tree on clonal rootstock from Brokaw at the Carpinteria Avocado festival back in 2014.  It is a healthy vigorous tree.  I have had some trees do well and others suffer from root rot on seedling rootstock either purchased from a nursery or grown myself.  Planting in a raised bed or mound would be a good idea in heavy soils that do not drain when we get lots of water.

CA Hockey

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #555 on: April 25, 2019, 02:11:02 AM »
I bought my tree from Gary including a reed. It was stunted last year but this year is loving life.

I mounded my trees and mulched heavily. I have a fertigation system leading into a drip system and each tree also has a Microsprayer.

Re rootstock,  eli at subtropica has everything that Brokaw had and is willing to sell to the public. He prefers day (west I dian) rootstock

My clonal rootstock trees have been slower than seedling rootstocks to establish but they seem to take off and look absolutely healthy.


Bananaizme

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #556 on: April 25, 2019, 07:45:43 AM »
Sand eh?  I'll be interested to hear your results through the year and the future.  I think Brad said his soil is mostly DG, which is quite sandy.  What did you use for a soil mix on all the dead attempts?

 Just the native soil with no amendments. This is the puzzling part because it does drain well for everything else just not avocado. My neighbor who's parents lived in this neighborhood since the construction of it, told me that this land used to be a big peach orchard. So I'm going to try the sand like how Gary explained to me and see what happens.

Tropheus76

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #557 on: April 25, 2019, 07:46:10 AM »
So apparently I have to add avocados to my list of trees deer really love :( my new Sir Prize was fragged by a deer. Looked out my kitchen window and was thinking the leaves were very camouflaged to the back ground. Went outside later and found every single one was gone. Deer shredded it. Not only that they knocked over a metal cage I had around a red loquat tree and took every leaf off of it. Then they walked to my front yard and ate all my hibiscus bushes and some of my other flowering bushes. But wow they really wanted the avocado, it looks the worst out of all of them, hibiscus grows back quickly and loquats are simply hard to kill, this is the second time in two months it has happened to it(thus the cage which works on other trees) . Oddly enough they leave my other loquats alone, even in the same vicinity. So, think it will come back? Only been in the ground for a couple weeks.

Bananaizme

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #558 on: April 25, 2019, 07:49:20 AM »
I bought 4 liner starts from him last trip south
Thanks for the pointers, I have to try sand as well! I wanted to ask, what are 'liner starts'?

 The liner starts that I'm talking about are newly grafted plants grown in those orange grow bag sleeves . He mentioned that he purchased them from Brokaw nursery.

Das Bhut

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #559 on: April 25, 2019, 08:25:11 AM »
So apparently I have to add avocados to my list of trees deer really love :( my new Sir Prize was fragged by a deer. Looked out my kitchen window and was thinking the leaves were very camouflaged to the back ground. Went outside later and found every single one was gone. Deer shredded it. Not only that they knocked over a metal cage I had around a red loquat tree and took every leaf off of it. Then they walked to my front yard and ate all my hibiscus bushes and some of my other flowering bushes. But wow they really wanted the avocado, it looks the worst out of all of them, hibiscus grows back quickly and loquats are simply hard to kill, this is the second time in two months it has happened to it(thus the cage which works on other trees) . Oddly enough they leave my other loquats alone, even in the same vicinity. So, think it will come back? Only been in the ground for a couple weeks.

time to make some venison

jtnguyen333

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #560 on: April 25, 2019, 09:51:51 AM »
This is a side by side comparison of the two trees  I have.  I planted the Sir Prize 6 weeks earlier so it has a head start.  It grow by 8 inches so far.  The Reed has shed all the leaves and doesn't look that good right now.

H Barath, good tips.  I'll consider those.  jtnguyen333- do you have any pics of your trees?  I assume you gave both the same soil mix treatment and exposure.  I pretty much used a similar mix to what you did, but I did mix-in the compost and wormcastings, etc. in the top 6-9".  I haven't yet setup the sprinkler subsystem for these trees.  I'm trying to decide between soaker hoses beneath the mulch vs. over head sprinklers, or slow drip.


jtnguyen333

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #561 on: April 25, 2019, 09:53:42 AM »
So I dig the mulch under my Reed avocado around the drip line to check the feeder root.  This is what I have.  Can anyone tell me if this is root rot? 


z_willus_d

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #562 on: April 25, 2019, 10:16:25 AM »
That's what most of my surface roots looked like in the wet season.  The ones that were still attached to the tree, I assume were still providing some value.  I wondered the same, as I know others describe beautiful, white surface feed root systems, that I've only observed a few times (more off white really).

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #563 on: April 25, 2019, 10:17:19 AM »
You might toss some 50% shade cloth over the ones that have lost a some of their leaves, because when avocados get sunburn they really struggle, then lose more leaves, and it's a downward spiral.  I've had bad luck with amended soil with avocados, because the roots don't really spread out properly from the amended area, but I guess you mixed it so maybe it'll be fine.

1.  Never amend backfill especially if your soil is heavy.  You create a non draining pot.   "Amend" from the top down with mulch.

2. For sunburn protection ditch the shade cloth and go smart - Surround spray.

FYI:

Just posted this planting guide in Central Texas Backyard Gardener's forum. --> "I love trees, probably planted 10,000 by hand around the house and the Xmas tree field since 2005. This was a hay field and now our backyard oaks and Bigtooth maples are large, many going 25 - 40' tall and quite broad. Here in Central Texas with our limestone clay based soils most folks fail by not using proper planting procedures, instead following label advice which is usually wrong. Being that I'm in heavy clay loam that DOES NOT drain internally, I fractured the bottom and sides of all my planting holes with one of the following - tractor pulled subsoiler, hand held pick ax, breaking bar. This breaks up the glazed clay sides and allows roots to find those fractures and quickly grow into native soil. I backfilled with native soil only, applied a handful of 12 mo. 18-4-9 Osmocote and mulched. The rootballs were treated with Mycorrhizae fungi drench at the time of planting. #1 and 2 pic is the large Shumard oak tree shown in the back left today. Was a pencil size, 2' tall seedling planted in May 2005 in clay muck. Our back yard is now a cool oasis. I also like fall color. "

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #564 on: April 25, 2019, 10:29:13 AM »
If you mulch right and keep the top 12" of soil damp (which mimics their native home) avocados will have a big network of fine white roots growing on top of the soil right under the mulch.

hawkfish007

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #565 on: April 25, 2019, 11:29:44 AM »
You might toss some 50% shade cloth over the ones that have lost a some of their leaves, because when avocados get sunburn they really struggle, then lose more leaves, and it's a downward spiral.  I've had bad luck with amended soil with avocados, because the roots don't really spread out properly from the amended area, but I guess you mixed it so maybe it'll be fine.

1.  Never amend backfill especially if your soil is heavy.  You create a non draining pot.   "Amend" from the top down with mulch.

2. For sunburn protection ditch the shade cloth and go smart - Surround spray.

FYI:

Just posted this planting guide in Central Texas Backyard Gardener's forum. --> "I love trees, probably planted 10,000 by hand around the house and the Xmas tree field since 2005. This was a hay field and now our backyard oaks and Bigtooth maples are large, many going 25 - 40' tall and quite broad. Here in Central Texas with our limestone clay based soils most folks fail by not using proper planting procedures, instead following label advice which is usually wrong. Being that I'm in heavy clay loam that DOES NOT drain internally, I fractured the bottom and sides of all my planting holes with one of the following - tractor pulled subsoiler, hand held pick ax, breaking bar. This breaks up the glazed clay sides and allows roots to find those fractures and quickly grow into native soil. I backfilled with native soil only, applied a handful of 12 mo. 18-4-9 Osmocote and mulched. The rootballs were treated with Mycorrhizae fungi drench at the time of planting. #1 and 2 pic is the large Shumard oak tree shown in the back left today. Was a pencil size, 2' tall seedling planted in May 2005 in clay muck. Our back yard is now a cool oasis. I also like fall color. "

Mark, what is a good price for Surround WP? I found it around $70 with shipping online, thanks.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #566 on: April 25, 2019, 10:04:54 PM »
Has anyone tried Koala avocado?
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #567 on: April 25, 2019, 10:28:20 PM »
My Koala tree is loaded, but have not tried the fruit yet.  The fruit resembles John Hurd with the stem coming from the top side of the fruit.  The John Hurd fruits are huge and awaiting a taste test (and seed size).

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #568 on: April 25, 2019, 10:34:39 PM »
Jack lets us know how it is when you try one.  Do you know when it will be ready?  Khalid gave me some scions and my buddy GregA has one of them grafted on a potted seedling.  We are trying to gauge how good they are and if its worth giving a prime location.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #569 on: April 26, 2019, 12:21:15 AM »
I managed to get a Lamb Hass at a local nursery a couple of weeks ago. I wish I could have gotten a smaller tree, but stock is non-existent in the area... I have two questions:
- I want to keep this tree topped at 7-8 feet following a bit the UC research trial about high-density planting. I probably need to provide some frost cover in winter and this height makes that plausible. The plant is about 5' now (above the container), is it best to wait 'til it exceeds 7' and then pinch back or start now cutting it in half?
- I'm suspicious about the soil it's in, it will go into very sandy soil when planted in a few months (space not ready yet), so I'm wondering about repotting into a very sandy mix. But given that it's just in a growth flush maybe I should wait 'til it's done with that?

spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #570 on: April 26, 2019, 10:20:12 AM »
Wait to top it until its planted and established.  And no need to repot it.  You can drop it right into your sand.  Because the sand is soft and well draining the trees roots will stretch out and move into the new sand soil easily.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #571 on: April 26, 2019, 12:13:34 PM »
[Not discounting rootstock or other factors but sir prize is a beast. One prominent member here grafted sir prize onto an established tree and now the sir prize size is bigger than the original. My sir prize is also growing phenomenally well growth rate similar to Pinkerton but more bushy and less droopy


quote author=jtnguyen333 link=topic=24909.msg349824#msg349824 date=1556200311]
This is a side by side comparison of the two trees  I have.  I planted the Sir Prize 6 weeks earlier so it has a head start.  It grow by 8 inches so far.  The Reed has shed all the leaves and doesn't look that good right now.

H Barath, good tips.  I'll consider those.  jtnguyen333- do you have any pics of your trees?  I assume you gave both the same soil mix treatment and exposure.  I pretty much used a similar mix to what you did, but I did mix-in the compost and wormcastings, etc. in the top 6-9".  I haven't yet setup the sprinkler subsystem for these trees.  I'm trying to decide between soaker hoses beneath the mulch vs. over head sprinklers, or slow drip.

[/quote]

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #572 on: April 27, 2019, 09:36:32 AM »
You might toss some 50% shade cloth over the ones that have lost a some of their leaves, because when avocados get sunburn they really struggle, then lose more leaves, and it's a downward spiral.  I've had bad luck with amended soil with avocados, because the roots don't really spread out properly from the amended area, but I guess you mixed it so maybe it'll be fine.

1.  Never amend backfill especially if your soil is heavy.  You create a non draining pot.   "Amend" from the top down with mulch.

2. For sunburn protection ditch the shade cloth and go smart - Surround spray.

FYI:

Just posted this planting guide in Central Texas Backyard Gardener's forum. --> "I love trees, probably planted 10,000 by hand around the house and the Xmas tree field since 2005. This was a hay field and now our backyard oaks and Bigtooth maples are large, many going 25 - 40' tall and quite broad. Here in Central Texas with our limestone clay based soils most folks fail by not using proper planting procedures, instead following label advice which is usually wrong. Being that I'm in heavy clay loam that DOES NOT drain internally, I fractured the bottom and sides of all my planting holes with one of the following - tractor pulled subsoiler, hand held pick ax, breaking bar. This breaks up the glazed clay sides and allows roots to find those fractures and quickly grow into native soil. I backfilled with native soil only, applied a handful of 12 mo. 18-4-9 Osmocote and mulched. The rootballs were treated with Mycorrhizae fungi drench at the time of planting. #1 and 2 pic is the large Shumard oak tree shown in the back left today. Was a pencil size, 2' tall seedling planted in May 2005 in clay muck. Our back yard is now a cool oasis. I also like fall color. "

Mark, what is a good price for Surround WP? I found it around $70 with shipping online, thanks.

Sounds high to me.  I ordered at a Crop Protection Systems  distributor now this https://www.nutrienagsolutions.com/ for around $42 delivered.  Probably one near you.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #573 on: April 27, 2019, 09:43:35 AM »
I made the mistake of topping a Reed avocado low in 2013.  It turned into a goal post profile which I never could correct. Hole in the center, looked like crap.  Not to worry mama nature corrected it for me at 18F.  I let 3 shoots grow from the frozen back stump last year and it's now approaching 13' H X 8' W.



Here's a very low resolution pic of a huge tree in a large RootBuilder bed.  Food for thought.  This material is 16" H and all I use in the greenhouse.



CA Hockey

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Re: Avocado thread
« Reply #574 on: April 27, 2019, 09:12:09 PM »
Here are photos of my reed (the bigger one) and sharwil (slinking along the ground).

Like mark, mother nature also did some pruning for me, something called the hot knife technique.






 

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