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Author Topic: Mango tree fertilizer  (Read 8131 times)

561MangoFanatic

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2017, 11:53:18 AM »
Good points by Murahilin.

About the first three pictures of this thread, could we please see close-up pictures of the fine print giving the detailed ingredients?

Could not find for the 1st pic.







Sergio

561MangoFanatic

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2017, 01:01:44 PM »
I recommend Espoma Citrus Tone to fertilize your young mango trees (and most other fruit trees). I've used it for years and my trees have all done well. It's organic and has a good ratio.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Espoma-8-lb-Citrus-Tone-Plant-Food-100047221/202258534


edit: I also wanted to point out that I don't think "inorganic" is the correct term you should be using. "Non-organic" is better suited. Inorganic usually defines something that is not carbon based.


Thank You!!!😁👍 I was looking at that & this also-




Sergio

Guanabanus

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2017, 03:07:52 PM »
The langbeinite and Seaweed extract and that Citrus mix will provide most of what mangos need, except for Manganese, of which you need as much at least as Iron, and except for Calcium.  The 3% Calcium in the Citrus mix is not nearly enough to balance with all the Potassium going on from the three other products--- unless your soil or irrigation water are already rich in Calcium.

Have you had your soil and irrigation water tested?
Har

561MangoFanatic

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2017, 12:40:08 PM »
The langbeinite and Seaweed extract and that Citrus mix will provide most of what mangos need, except for Manganese, of which you need as much at least as Iron, and except for Calcium.  The 3% Calcium in the Citrus mix is not nearly enough to balance with all the Potassium going on from the three other products--- unless your soil or irrigation water are already rich in Calcium.

Have you had your soil and irrigation water tested?

Thank You! & No I need to but unfortunately I'm also growing my trees in containers for the moment as I hope to find them a permanent home.
Sergio

VUgearhead

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2017, 05:22:10 PM »
Regarding organic vs. non-organic fertilizers, raises a question.

While the tree may not care whether the nutrients it absorbs is derived from organic or non-organic sources, I grant is moot. What I had always been taught, though, was that non-organic (or 'chemical') fertilizers damaged the soil micro-organism eco-system to the point that organic soil based supplementation was no longer effective. So, you were, in essence, left with a choice of either going 'chemical' for all your plant nutrient requirements, or going the organic path by building the soil (micro-organisme, organic matter as a nutrient base, natural chelating agents to enable nutrient uptake).

Someone tell me if I am wrong here. I have never heard any learned advocate (i.e. research professor) state unequivocally that you could have/do both.
If you can eat it, GROW IT!!

Guanabanus

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2017, 06:48:44 PM »
I suspect that the main "chemical" culprits for killing off beneficial soil organisms, are Ammonia, Urea, and Potassium Chloride (a natural mined substance).

Also fast-release fertilizers can easily be overdone, which can burn plants, and presumably also soil organisms.

Moderate applications of slow-release fertilizers, with little or none of the above ingredients, with the main source of K being Potassium Sulfate, aren't too likely to hurt soil organisms.

"Organic fertilizers" from poop or composts tend to have lots of beneficial micro-organisms, if the bags weren't stored in a hot place.
Har

spaugh

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »
Urea is an organic molecule.
Brad Spaugh

pineislander

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2017, 08:10:12 AM »
Definitely true, that composts can have just about any kind of pollutant in them. 

Around here (sandy soils paralleling the old US-1 and I-95), locally produced woodchips and composts from wood chips, are rather spiked with Lead, from the old-fashioned leaded gasolines.

Off topic, but I found a report on chemical composition of typical Florida yard wastes.

http://soils.ifas.ufl.edu/lqma/Center/Report-09.pdf

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2017, 08:33:24 AM »
....What I had always been taught, though, was that non-organic (or 'chemical') fertilizers damaged the soil micro-organism eco-system to the point that organic soil based supplementation was no longer effective.

Not true, another one of those internet myths that just won't die.

Quite the contrary, the use of chemical fertilizers increases microbial populations and their respiration rates.  Carlos, being on the cutting edge of organics, did the test via a lab, like a 5 page analysis of soil samples taken from an orchard that uses both organics AND synthetic fertilizers.  Here's page 3 of 5 as an example.



I do the same, combine both for the best of both worlds regarding proper nutrition, lower cost inputs, productivity.

The most over rated and over used macro is P.  I have been using a very low P soluble plant food for decades in ratios like a 5-1-3.  I have also innoculated thousands of farm shade, fruit, nut, grapevines, tropical trees, etc. and acres of commercial Xmas trees with Micro Apply Soluble Maxx, a mycho/bacteria agent. 

Mark
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 08:40:28 AM by Mark in Texas »

edzone9

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2017, 08:41:25 AM »
You need to research Plant Ormus !
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Guanabanus

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 10:50:38 PM »
Thank you, PineIslander, for the updated, upbeat research paper on contaminants in yard wastes composts.

It shows, on page 37, that the current study's mean concentration, from 12 samples taken in Palm Beach County ("southeast"), of Lead (Pb), was 3.09 mg/kg.
That was a huge improvement over the 2002 Palm Beach study referenced on page 29, for which the result was 60.2.

Also in 2002, I was running a small commercial composting experiment for a resort near US-1 in southeastern Palm Beach County, which showed similarly high levels of Lead.
Har

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2017, 09:30:00 AM »
Thank you, PineIslander, for the updated, upbeat research paper on contaminants in yard wastes composts.

It shows, on page 37, that the current study's mean concentration, from 12 samples taken in Palm Beach County ("southeast"), of Lead (Pb), was 3.09 mg/kg.
That was a huge improvement over the 2002 Palm Beach study referenced on page 29, for which the result was 60.2.

Also in 2002, I was running a small commercial composting experiment for a resort near US-1 in southeastern Palm Beach County, which showed similarly high levels of Lead.

As opposed to pure salts like Peters' foods, you really don't know what's in organics.  I have read lab analysis from NW universities who test all kinds of products and many times the organic foods and compost come back tainted.  Some manures are still positive for broadleaf herbicides like picloram which is passed thru a horse and even after brewing in a compost pile for a while will burn sensitive plants like tomatoes and peppers.

Quite ironical really.  Folks are driven into this "organic", "natural" cult by feelings and the ideology they choose to believe.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2017, 09:50:26 AM »
Definitely true, that composts can have just about any kind of pollutant in them. 

Around here (sandy soils paralleling the old US-1 and I-95), locally produced woodchips and composts from wood chips, are rather spiked with Lead, from the old-fashioned leaded gasolines.

Off topic, but I found a report on chemical composition of typical Florida yard wastes.

http://soils.ifas.ufl.edu/lqma/Center/Report-09.pdf


Wow, you Florida peeps are NASTY!  ;D  Seriously, that's some scary findings.

greenman62

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2017, 05:13:46 PM »
i agree with Zands
The best way is to get the soil right.
a good compost, woody mulch and leaf mulch are the best ways.
i use fish emulsion to stimulate the microbes.

Yes chemicals do hurt the soil.
no one fertilizes the forest, and it does quite well on its own.
lots of work has been done in soil science in the last few years.

ive been using legumes as nitrogen fixers
since most dry nitrogen (organic or not) will wash through very fast.

this might help...
Farm Profits in Root Depth (No Fertilisers Required)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHckFprozDc

Elaine Ingham discusses the different forms of nitrogen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyMQBDvXKx0


VUgearhead

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2017, 05:43:30 PM »
Mark,

This isn't a recent 'internet myth'. This has been a prevalent warning from the organic constituents since the late 70's, early 80's. That's when I read about it in Rodale Press's Organic Gardening magazine..... back when it was digest sized.

Now, how many of you can remember that?
If you can eat it, GROW IT!!

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2017, 10:17:14 AM »
Mark,

This isn't a recent 'internet myth'. This has been a prevalent warning from the organic constituents since the late 70's, early 80's. That's when I read about it in ..... back when it was digest sized.

Now, how many of you can remember that?

How many can read a simple chart?  ;D  Rodale Press's Organic Gardening magazine?  Give me a break.  ::)  You cherry picked from a magazine that has a one sided agenda.  Par for the course. 

I gave you scientific evidence that proves the opposite, a real world study on 3 soil samples.  Contact Carlos aka CTMIAMI if you don't believe me.  He sent me the entire lab analysis with soil samples taken from an orchard that is nourished with synthetic fertilizers.  By the same token, it's rich in organics too which the microbial populations and their respiration rates and N output reflects.  Look at the first graft. The 4.05 rating is in the USUALLY HIGH SOIL MICROBIAL ACTIVITY area.

How about 4.45 (high microbiological activity) for soil sample 50-5-10?  "SOIL HAVE VERY HIGH LEVEL OF MICROBIAL ACTIVITY."



DeNial is not a river in Egypt.

druss

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2017, 06:27:01 PM »
Hi Mark do you have the whole writeup? Im interested to read it.

WGphil

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2017, 07:20:39 AM »
I grow organic in that no herbicides , insecticides, or vermacides are used to protect my soil


I will use fertilizer like 839 but with sandy soil and lots of rain it washes through so I give it a little more often to get nutrients to the plants instead of the drinking water

I walk out and snack as I go without reading a label first

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 08:43:05 AM by WGphil »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2017, 10:05:36 AM »
Hi Mark do you have the whole writeup? Im interested to read it.

No, only the grafts that I got from Carlos who did the study.  He's always on the cutting edge of dispelling theories and myths and just wanted to put this issue to rest once and for all.   

greenman62

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2017, 01:09:50 PM »
I gave you scientific evidence that proves the opposite, a real world study on 3 soil samples.  Contact Carlos aka CTMIAMI if you don't believe me.  He sent me the entire lab analysis with soil samples taken from an orchard that is nourished with synthetic fertilizers.

sorry, some guys lab results is not science.

Rodale is one of the leading soil science company for many years
They are very well respected.
and they are... science.


Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2017, 09:34:07 AM »
sorry, some guys lab results is not science.

Ya think?  That's ridiculous.   I'm sure Carlos would deliberately choose and pay some pot shot, partisan lab to do his tests.  ::)

Tell ya what, how 'bout you call 'em up, or visit in person - Denele Analytical, Inc. Environmental and Agricultural Analysts and tell them their full of shit.  ;D  (209) 634-9055

greenman62

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2017, 08:52:55 AM »
sorry, some guys lab results is not science.

Ya think?  That's ridiculous.   I'm sure Carlos would deliberately choose and pay some pot shot, partisan lab to do his tests.  ::)

Tell ya what, how 'bout you call 'em up, or visit in person - Denele Analytical, Inc. Environmental and Agricultural Analysts and tell them their full of shit.  ;D  (209) 634-9055

i didnt questions lab results.
i also didnt question intention or ethics.

all i see is a snapshot.
there is no before and after, no timeline
no CONTROL PLOT.

what was the starting density ?
what was the moisture content before and after
(did it just rain? - what was the PH of any moisture input ? N content ?)
temperature ?
did someone add compost a week before, and its just breaking down during the test ?

by "microbial activity" it could mean that the chemicals
killed all the good biology, and there is an explosion of root-not nematodes and anaerobic microbes
eating up all the dead microbes.
or...
Maybe this works for 1 week, then it all goes to hell ?

this is off the top of my head
there are im sure a dozen more parameters which would need to be taken into account
before anything remotely called science can be attached to 1 number.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2017, 09:45:20 AM »
i didnt questions lab results.
i also didnt question intention or ethics.

all i see is a snapshot.
there is no before and after, no timeline
no CONTROL PLOT.

what was the starting density ?
what was the moisture content before and after
(did it just rain? - what was the PH of any moisture input ? N content ?)
temperature ?
did someone add compost a week before, and its just breaking down during the test ?

by "microbial activity" it could mean that the chemicals
killed all the good biology, and there is an explosion of root-not nematodes and anaerobic microbes
eating up all the dead microbes.
or...
Maybe this works for 1 week, then it all goes to hell ?

this is off the top of my head
there are im sure a dozen more parameters which would need to be taken into account
before anything remotely called science can be attached to 1 number.

Now's not the time but if you're really interested message Carlos.  He has an avocado orchard in Homestead.  It's my understanding  that he started with a rather poor soil profile, built it up with amendments including compost, added bio products some which he brews himself like EM1 and used plenty of synthetic fertilizers over the years to increase production.  Like me, he is a hybrid grower which means if he needs to spray with pesticides and such, he will.  We know what we're doing based on experience and education.

You're overthinking this and/or don't want to believe something contrary to the same ol organic purist mantras, the "what ifs" and doom and gloom crap gleaned off big City, anti-Monsanto, non-GMO doom and gloom, "come enjoin Acme and Associates attorneys in a class action suit".... fake news sites.

BTW, you profess indulging in green manure crops, legumes.
Quote
ive been using legumes as nitrogen fixers
since most dry nitrogen (organic or not) will wash through very fast.
Ever planted any?  I have, 3 successive years on about 14 acres.  Cost me $1,000's in contract labor and seeds.  Crops were elbon rye for the humus and hairy vetch and Madrid yellow sweet clover for the humus, N fixing and some of the best choices to act as a biological soil plow in my newly bought but over farmed farm acreage.  Here's a pic or two.




« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 09:56:37 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2017, 09:54:17 AM »
...

Guanabanus

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Re: Mango tree fertilizer
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2017, 10:52:36 PM »
Nice!
Har

 

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