Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees  (Read 2341 times)

greenman62

  • CharlesitaveNB
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
    • [url=https://vgruk.com/]vgr uk[/url]
    • View Profile
Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« on: August 30, 2017, 03:29:03 PM »
I had a couple of plants, in containers and in ground
that were either sluggish putting on new growth
or, had yellowing leaves.
After giving them some iron and magnesium, worm castings and compost
and only marginal gains, i tried planting several nitrogen fixers near the roots.

My understanding is most N chemical fertilizers wash through the soil quickly.
With a N fixing plant, i think it acts more like a slow-release.
it also does not harm soil bacteria or fungi like chemicals.

ive seen a couple of very nice gains.
I dont like using chemical ferts. I use dry organic on rare occasions in small amounts
and use liquid fish, worm castings, or compost normally.

This seems to be a solution in certain applications for me.
I also think certain species fix N better than others
and some may be better for particular species
maybe bean is better with Plinia and Senna is better with Coffee ?
it would be nice to have a database showing which ones work better for what fruit trees...

Imbe
cant find a pic, but these leaves were very yellow.



Red Jabo... was chlorotic. Iron and Magnesium had not helped.
compost  gave me only very minimal gains
i planted 3 bean seeds about 10 inches from the trunk
in 2 weeks the leaves greened up nicely
(day was overcast, so pic is yellowish) but leaves are much greener.


Grumichama hadnt pushed growth in several weeks.
4 bean seeds seemed to help.
the 1st pic is with my old camera
 - july


Grumi new growth - today

 

Coffee - greening up leaves


Jabo - pic is from April - after freeze in Jan killed large branches.
was not putting out new growth at all.


Jabo - today - Nitrogen fixers... 4 beans (3 to 4 weeks)
leaf color slowly coming back , still spotty.


Jujube
had to move it from backyard to front.
transplant caused some shock and it wouldnt put out new growth
now its holding fruit and growing fine. leaf color is excellent.

achetadomestica

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
    • FLORIDA 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 03:45:53 PM »
What kind of bean are you planting? I sure have a few things that I would like to try something new.
Thanks

greenman62

  • CharlesitaveNB
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
    • [url=https://vgruk.com/]vgr uk[/url]
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 03:59:14 PM »
What kind of bean are you planting? I sure have a few things that I would like to try something new.
Thanks


i actually found a bag of mixed beans a few years ago.
(must have been 20+ varieties)
i planted tons of them all over
after several months you could tell which ones worked/grew better  here.
the plants (2 types) were just stronger, grew faster and flowered faster than the others.
1 is a black bean, the other is brown.
After a couple of years of just replanting the strongest ones
i feel i have the best ones i can get for my climate.
It seems they do a good job of fixing N also.

Senna Obtusifolia is another N fixing plant that grows well here
i have been saving seed and replanting with just the stronger plants.

i also use black locust, honey locust, autumn olive, Goumi
and Indian Trumpet (Oroxylum indicum)

Oroxylum indicum is a very odd plant
i have it fixing N for a Juju and a Mulberry
it has some edible and medicinal properties.
http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Oroxylum+indicum
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/oroxylum.htm

i have Inga, Tamarind, and Manila Tamarind too
but they are too small or in containers,
 so havent used them to fix N for other plants yet.

shaneatwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
    • California, San Diego, sunset 23 and 18
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 11:58:46 PM »
I've always understood that nitogen fixers trap their nitogen and it's not released until you chop and drop.
Shane

shinzo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • High Density Urban Cultivator
    • Tunis (Tunisia) - 10 b
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 04:17:41 AM »
Do you plant the same kind of beans every year in the same spot? does it promote diseases the fact to plant the same legume in the same place over and over again?

greenman62

  • CharlesitaveNB
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
    • [url=https://vgruk.com/]vgr uk[/url]
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 07:34:35 AM »
I've always understood that nitogen fixers trap their nitogen and it's not released until you chop and drop.

there are a few types of N fixing plants that work differently.
Legumes have nodules on the roots.
those nodules die off on a regular basis (weekly, daily?)
and release N into the surrounding soil.

The roots do have to be in close proximity to some degree
but i think rain will  move some of the N a bit (inches, feet?)

i have not found the intermingling of roots to be a huge issue.
the rhizosphere (area of microbial interaction) around the roots
is fractions of an inch
so roots 2 inches apart really do not bother each other
but one can gain benefit from the others nitrogen.

plants in close proximity also have mycorrhizal interactions
where they share water, phosphorus and other minerals.
its kinda like extending both root systems.

greenman62

  • CharlesitaveNB
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
    • [url=https://vgruk.com/]vgr uk[/url]
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 07:39:23 AM »
Do you plant the same kind of beans every year in the same spot? does it promote diseases the fact to plant the same legume in the same place over and over again?

i have not seen any disease at all.
actually, those bean plants are especially healthy looking

Ive heard the theory, but never understood it.
the only disease ive ever seen is when my papaya get too much water
and get root rot and similar.
But i even planted papaya a year later, just  a few feet away and had no problem.
to me, diseases just dont hang around that long.

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3965
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 09:51:01 AM »
Am into organics big time, but also into common sense and practicality.  Can't beat an encapsulated food with the right NPK values and micros.
https://www.amazon.com/Osmocote-Outdoor-Smart-Release-8-Pound-Fertilizer/dp/B00GTDGMHC/ref=pd_nav_hcs_bia_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Y1DJNXKSZDJ7S6PPQCNE

mikemap

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • Puna and Hilo, Hawai'i
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 03:03:03 PM »
i have Inga, Tamarind, and Manila Tamarind too
but they are too small or in containers,
 so havent used them to fix N for other plants yet.

Tamarind doesn't fix nitrogen. The Inga and Pithecellobium do.
Mike Parker: kefir fanatic, ethnomusicology hobbyist

greenman62

  • CharlesitaveNB
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
    • [url=https://vgruk.com/]vgr uk[/url]
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 03:26:58 PM »
i have Inga, Tamarind, and Manila Tamarind too
but they are too small or in containers,
 so havent used them to fix N for other plants yet.


Tamarind doesn't fix nitrogen. The Inga and Pithecellobium do.


actually, they didnt think so
but it looks now like it does, at least some of the time.

https://books.google.com/books?id=QhtZLMVPLIIC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=Tamarind


Also, i just found out Jujube seems to fix N, at least to some degree

 novel Gram-positive, rod-shaped, motile, spore-forming, nitrogen-fixing bacterium, designated strain 7188(T), was isolated from jujube rhizosphere soil in Beijing, China.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22763811
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25937453

also, for those interested...
Forage Tree Legumes in Tropical Agriculture
http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Publicat/Gutt-shel/x5556e00.htm#Contents








Saltcayman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
  • Zone 13b TCI
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2017, 08:46:10 PM »
Fascinating about tamarind being a nitro fixer. Thanks

BajaJohn

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • Mexico, Baja California Sur, Loreto, Hot Desert
    • View Profile
Re: Nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 01:27:39 PM »
If you ever burn wood you can cover it to encourage charcoal formation then powder the charcoal and add that to your soil (biochar) to form "terra preta". It absorbs and holds water and dissolved nutrients. You can add up to about 10% by volume. Its first action is to absorb moisture and nutrients so can produce a transient depletion of nitrogen. You can avoid this by pre-dosing the charcoal with fertilizer or compost tea.

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers