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Author Topic: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?  (Read 423 times)

sapote

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Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« on: September 11, 2017, 03:18:24 PM »
I ate two fruits from my tree (sold by Toptrop) and both had poly embryonic seeds to my surprise. From Wikipedia “The flesh has a rich, sweet flavor with a mild, pleasant aroma and contains a monoembryonic seed.”

Picture of my Edward fruits: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=24853.msg296764#msg296764

What is your Edward?

Btw, in a similar twist, my Vietnamese Cac Hoa Loc (sold by Toptrop) fruits have mono-embryonic seeds from 3 samples. The original 36" tree had 4 fruits and they were all fiberous and didn't taste good, while its scions grafted on a 10 feet Kent seedling gave same mono-embryonic seeds fruits but tasted excellent: balanced sweet and tart and the aroma of Maha. The seed is so thin that it almost gives 3 cheeks instead of 2 and a seed.  I think a strong mature tree gives better tasting fruits in this case. (These Cac Hoa Loc fruits look more like a Mahachanoc  without the red tint than the original one from Vietnam, so I don't know if it is a real deal Cac Hoa Loc or something else.)








« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:22:01 PM by sapote »

JF

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 04:02:59 PM »
That's  a Maha Chanok that's not an Edward or a Coc
Real Edward



sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 04:39:55 PM »
Frank, sorry for the confusion, the pic was for the Cac Hoa Loc as a side subject.

simon_grow

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 07:14:17 PM »
Edward should have Mono seeds, I planted several Edward mango seeds from Eunice Messners tree.

How did you conclude the seeds were polyembryonic? Sometimes mono seeds can have multiple Sprouts but from the same origin. Polyembryonic seedlings will originate from different segments of the Poly seeds although they can also have multiple Sprouts from the same origin.

Simon

sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 09:17:35 PM »
"Sometimes mono seeds can have multiple Sprouts but from the same origin."
I think I understand this, as in Kent seedling sometime the base of the primary shoot, close to the seed, sprouts multiple smaller shoots.

My Edward seeds have distinct multiple segments as in pic below (borrowed from the web):



And properly my Glenn has the simple kidney bean shape smooth mono-embryonic seed.

I will take a pic of my Edward poly seed tonight.

sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »
Here are my Edward poly embryonic seeds that in rooting stage. I can see there are two roots developed at different places:




Future

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 04:54:01 PM »
So now the question becomes, what did toptrops actually sell you...

simon_grow

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 05:57:44 PM »
That does look like a polyembryonic seed. Do you have a picture of the fruit the seed came from? Did it look like the picture Frank posted?

Simon

sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 06:00:46 PM »
Simon,

I linked the picture of the fruits on the very first post on this thread. They look like the typical Edward fruits seen on the internet and at Toptrop website.
Picture of my Edward fruits: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=24853.msg296764#msg296764




sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 06:05:05 PM »
Mine is on the right side photo. If it's not Edward then can someone ID it based on the fruit photo?





sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 06:30:59 PM »
" Did it look like the picture Frank posted?"

I found Frank's Edward seems to be longer than what seen on the internet and at Toptrop.

Does my Edward fruit look like Cushman?

JF

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 09:08:40 PM »
Mine is on the right side photo. If it's not Edward then can someone ID it based on the fruit photo?





not an edward it looks like iman passand
real edward



sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 02:01:03 PM »
Great if it is Indian Iman Pasand mango!!! The description sounds true but my fruits are shorter and stocky while IP is a bit longer. Could IP as an Indian type mango have a poly-embryonic seed? Last night we ate the 3rd fruit and it was so good. The flesh at shoulder (near the stem) is yellow still firm while the beak and center is orange like carrot color, soft and juicy. Very sweet as honey and stint with powerful tart taste.

Well then I have the opportunity to hunt down a real Edward scion for grafting. I'm so lucky that Toptrop shipped the wrong Iman Pasand (or whatever it is) in stead of other lesser mangoes. Here are pic of last might mango:










JoeP450

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 11:45:00 PM »
I haven't had an Edward in a very longtime, but in this link from university of Florida there is a table that says that Edward is a mono embryonic seed. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg216

-joep450

sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 02:05:41 PM »
This link show Imam Pasand having a mono-embryonic seed, at 12sec into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H02A-zbdwV0

So mine is not Iman Pasand nor Edward. What else can it be, anyone?

BajaJohn

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 05:24:04 PM »
A couple of informative articles here on polyembryony. If I understand them correctly:
1. Polyembryony isn't "all or none". You can expect up to a 10% incidence of monoembrionic seeds in a polyembrionic variety and vice versa.
2. Some embryos from a polyembrionic seed are fertilized (zygotic). The others are produced non-sexually (somatic) and are genetically identical to the mother plant so are effectively clones of the tree that produced the fruit. Unfortunately, without genetic testing, the only way to identify the clones is to wait until they bear fruit.
3. The "cloned" seedlings of a polyembryonic seed can become more vigorous plants than a parent plant produced by several generations of vegetative propagation.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-204X2012001100010

http://www.krishisewa.com/articles/seed-production/640-polyembryony.html

I've just raised 8 seedlings from fruits of the same tree. One produced 4 plants whereas the seeds all of the others produced only a single seedling.

sapote

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 09:43:04 PM »
So far all fruits we ate are poly-embryo, or 100% incidence.

Could my Edward really be Florigon? The fruits look match with those dots.

simon_grow

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Re: Edward mango: mono or poly embryonic seed?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 03:09:53 PM »
A couple of informative articles here on polyembryony. If I understand them correctly:
1. Polyembryony isn't "all or none". You can expect up to a 10% incidence of monoembrionic seeds in a polyembrionic variety and vice versa.
2. Some embryos from a polyembrionic seed are fertilized (zygotic). The others are produced non-sexually (somatic) and are genetically identical to the mother plant so are effectively clones of the tree that produced the fruit. Unfortunately, without genetic testing, the only way to identify the clones is to wait until they bear fruit.
3. The "cloned" seedlings of a polyembryonic seed can become more vigorous plants than a parent plant produced by several generations of vegetative propagation.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-204X2012001100010

http://www.krishisewa.com/articles/seed-production/640-polyembryony.html

I've just raised 8 seedlings from fruits of the same tree. One produced 4 plants whereas the seeds all of the others produced only a single seedling.


That's my understanding as well. Polyembryonic mangos can also have a single seedling pop and it could be mono.

Simon


 

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