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Author Topic: Gardening by the moon-phases  (Read 3784 times)

bovine421

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2020, 12:46:30 AM »
I'm sorry too. On reflection I would never waste such a high-quality fertilizer as guano on such activities. I'm an advocate of fun and let's have fun. LOL It's all good Mike :)  You do know if you get a little luney, I will have to pull some academic quando on you :)

« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 01:01:25 AM by bovine421 »
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Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2020, 06:28:12 AM »
Great stuff and this is a belief system that is ripe for robust discussion. It is true that gravity exists, but that is not the question. How can people sustain belief in flat earth, climate change isn't happening, weird gun control arguments and holocaust denial stuff? By using systems of belief other than evidentiary and scientific based approaches. Sometimes it is better just to believe and not challenge others belief systems.

There are plenty of real scientific studies showing the positive effects of moon on plants.  Of course we being Demeter Certified need to try and follow the lunar calendar to keep our certification,  I don’t bother checking before planting anymore as at this point I just trust in my intuition to guide my planting schedule which is naturally synchronized with the Lunar Calendar.  All people have this ability it is information found in our DNA.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895751/

The Biodynamic Lunar Calendar
https://www.rhythmofnature.net/biodynamic-calendar
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 06:31:11 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

Mike T

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2020, 07:27:33 AM »
I should just let it go but what the heck we're all chums here. This scientific evidence I would love to see it. It wpuldn't happen to be Dr Frank Brown of North western University? Let's see a published coherent paper. Humans, many animals and some plants may have circadian cycle tracking but so what? What effect does moonlight and tin changes in gravity have on plants? Does gravity effect groundwater - no, can claims that plants uptake more water on full moons be proven - no. It is a bit like saying all starapples in my home town are Sagittarians and that effects their behaviour.

bovine421

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2020, 08:05:04 AM »
I should just let it go but what the heck we're all chums here. This scientific evidence I would love to see it. It wpuldn't happen to be Dr Frank Brown of North western University? Let's see a published coherent paper. Humans, many animals and some plants may have circadian cycle tracking but so what? What effect does moonlight and tin changes in gravity have on plants? Does gravity effect groundwater - no, can claims that plants uptake more water on full moons be proven - no. It is a bit like saying all starapples in my home town are Sagittarians and that effects their behaviour.
Touche!

Yes scientific evidence please!
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fliptop

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2020, 11:03:28 AM »
I plant based on the phases of rain. I like to plant stuff before rain is predicted (ideally for a few days straight). I'm not the most diligent waterer, especially if the plants are far away from the spigot or rain barrel, so the rain has certainly helped my newly planted charges get established. I don't know if the moon affects the rain?

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2020, 11:21:38 AM »
I should just let it go but what the heck we're all chums here. This scientific evidence I would love to see it. It wpuldn't happen to be Dr Frank Brown of North western University? Let's see a published coherent paper. Humans, many animals and some plants may have circadian cycle tracking but so what? What effect does moonlight and tin changes in gravity have on plants? Does gravity effect groundwater - no, can claims that plants uptake more water on full moons be proven - no. It is a bit like saying all starapples in my home town are Sagittarians and that effects their behaviour.
Touche!

Yes scientific evidence please!

Astronomy

What about the Four Humors in Astronomy , and the Greek Gods Associated with planets , plants, and Numbers.
the moon would be associated with the brain. (see below)

Anyone know more about this stuff I see it a lot in my plant books
of coarse this may just be a test?

Melancholic
Humor: Black Bile
Element: Earth
Season: Winter
Age: Old Age
Qualities: Cold & Dry
Organ: Spleen
Planet: Saturn

Phlegmatic
Humor: Phlegm
Element: Water
Season: Autumn
Age: Maturity
Qualities: Cold & Moist
Organ: Brain
Planet: Moon

Choleric
Humor: Yellow Bile
Element: Fire
Season: Summer
Age: Childhood
Qualities: Hot & Dry
Organ: Gall Bladder
Planet: Mars

Sanguine
Humor: Blood
Element: Air
Season: Spring
Age: Adolescence
Qualities: Hot & Moist
Organ: Heart
Planet: Jupiter

Guanabanus

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2020, 12:09:23 PM »
One can reasonably surmise that moonlight might influence flowering times in some plants, or that some plants may benefit from nocturnal pollinators especially during good moonlight.  Some insects have mating swarms in good moonlight.

As one cannot logically prove a negative, who knows?  Maybe some plants' sap does rise more during a phase of the moon.

What I do know, from observing 50,000-100,000 young mango seedlings for root-stock each year, for decades, that there was never any visible co-ordination of growth flushes.
Har

Bush2Beach

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2020, 12:54:57 PM »
The more we become familiar with nature and work with it ,the more success in the garden we will have.
There are many natural cycles to tune into , that the plants are tuned into and all aspects of farming are positively enhanced by noticing , and paying attention to these cycles.
We don’t doubt our seeds will pop up, why not have faith & understand there has to be more going on with nature’s cycles and how it effects plants than we know.
I think most native cultures were more aware of this and functioned better within nature do to it. Plant medicine’s and the healing powers of plants is suppressed for the profit of synthetic medicines.
Rastafarian baptist? I thought baptist preach rasta is the devil?

bovine421

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2020, 02:06:06 PM »
The more we become familiar with nature and work with it ,the more success in the garden we will have.
There are many natural cycles to tune into , that the plants are tuned into and all aspects of farming are positively enhanced by noticing , and paying attention to these cycles.
We don’t doubt our seeds will pop up, why not have faith & understand there has to be more going on with nature’s cycles and how it effects plants than we know.
I think most native cultures were more aware of this and functioned better within nature do to it. Plant medicine’s and the healing powers of plants is suppressed for the profit of synthetic medicines.
Rastafarian baptist? I thought baptist preach rasta is the devil?

Rasta is the person, Farian is the religion. Baptist is a person who baptizes.  Baptists church advocates baptism by total immersion in water. I am not sure of the method Rastabaptist use. The first chance i get i will ask but my religion is Australian :)
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Bush2Beach

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2020, 02:49:07 PM »
 :) 8)

bovine421

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2020, 03:28:11 PM »
One can reasonably surmise that moonlight might influence flowering times in some plants, or that some plants may benefit from nocturnal pollinators especially during good moonlight.  Some insects have mating swarms in good moonlight.

As one cannot logically prove a negative, who knows?  Maybe some plants' sap does rise more during a phase of the moon.

What I do know, from observing 50,000-100,000 young mango seedlings for root-stock each year, for decades, that there was never any visible co-ordination of growth flushes.
I think that is very insightful. As humans we would like to have absolutism but in nature there so many variations and subtle nuances that it is not logical to expect the gravitational pulls of the Moon to affect everything in the absolute same way. I am not one who likes to immerse myself in the minutiae of the details. I prefer simplistic useful practices and let others contemplate and pontificate on the deeper meaning of things :)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 03:29:46 PM by bovine421 »
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Mike T

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2020, 05:08:31 PM »
Ok yes insects respond to the amount of moonlight and nocturnal flowering plants may time flowering accordingly. But gardening by moon phases is more like astrology for plants.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2020, 05:17:25 PM »
We have alot to learn from nature’s rhythms yet and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence from some of the worlds most respected farmers. If you believe it is hocus pocus or bs you are missing out on the opportunity to learn some valuable wisdom and lessons.

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2020, 06:18:14 PM »
One can reasonably surmise that moonlight might influence flowering times in some plants, or that some plants may benefit from nocturnal pollinators especially during good moonlight.  Some insects have mating swarms in good moonlight.

As one cannot logically prove a negative, who knows?  Maybe some plants' sap does rise more during a phase of the moon.

What I do know, from observing 50,000-100,000 young mango seedlings for root-stock each year, for decades, that there was never any visible co-ordination of growth flushes.
Observing 50,000-100,000 Mangos fed synthetic fertilizers is probably different than observing organically grown seedlings that cycle nutrients naturally. just sayin.

Mike T

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2020, 06:42:28 PM »
I don't think it is in relation to the timing of flushes. When you actually go out and look what happens in nature with plant strategies and timing it is complicated and species specific. Plants do communicate through photochemicals that are volatile and allow for coordinating or pest resistance. Seedling also want to avoid competition so tend not to do things at the same way at the same time. The words wisdom and the term ancient knowledge are bandied around with abandon and leaps over chasms of reasoning and strawman arguments abound. If something works ok just keep doing it. When some explanations are put out there they invite comments. I do cringe when I hear about the earths energy, observations that lead to strange unconnected conclusions or observations of what happens in nature that just aren't real. By the same token I wouldn't want to ridicule something that works just the reasoning as to why.

bovine421

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2020, 02:13:19 PM »
I don't think it is in relation to the timing of flushes. When you actually go out and look what happens in nature with plant strategies and timing it is complicated and species specific. Plants do communicate through photochemicals that are volatile and allow for coordinating or pest resistance. Seedling also want to avoid competition so tend not to do things at the same way at the same time. The words wisdom and the term ancient knowledge are bandied around with abandon and leaps over chasms of reasoning and strawman arguments abound. If something works ok just keep doing it. When some explanations are put out there they invite comments. I do cringe when I hear about the earths energy, observations that lead to strange unconnected conclusions or observations of what happens in nature that just aren't real. By the same token I wouldn't want to ridicule something that works just the reasoning as to why.
Mike! I killed a black snake and pointed it's white belly to the sky. It has rained every day for a week. Now I would like to try to collect some scientific evidence for you but I'm fearful of trying this on the full moon. LOL :)

« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 02:16:51 PM by bovine421 »
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Tang Tonic

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A
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2020, 11:26:09 AM »
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

If you don't believe that the moon affects plants because there are no scientific peer reviewed articles, well so be it.

I think as other people have alluded, its simply not something that even needs to be debated, the relationship between plants and the moon is very much just a natural connection (similar to their relationship with the sun through its seasons).  The moon affects so many things here on earth and there are many mysteries science has yet to unlock and solve.  Therefore, I don't think "science" is the great arbitrator of truth that everyone thinks it is, and I am by study and have worked my entire professional life as an environmental scientist.

This below though is not really accurate: 

[/quote]
Rasta is the person, Farian is the religion. Baptist is a person who baptizes.  Baptists church advocates baptism by total immersion in water. I am not sure of the method Rastabaptist use. The first chance i get i will ask but my religion is Australian :)
[/quote]

Not that many people on here would care, but most Rastas would be offended if you called their practices a religion.  The earth is their church and they don't define their practices as you might expect.  There are several subsets suchas Bobo Ashanti, Twelve Tribes of Judah, Nyahbingi, etc.

Rasta believe that Haile Selassie who was a direct descendant of King Solomon and Queen of Shebah was a divine entity as prophesied by Marcus Garvey.  Haile Selassie was born with the name Tafari Makonnen and later added the Ras in front which translates to head.

There is a lot more to it than that but just wanted to clarify, Rastafari was the name of an Ethiopian King also known as Haile Selassie and was given the titles: King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah.  The people who believe he was divine, are called Rastafarians.

There is no connection between Rasta and Baptists.  Rastas denounce all religions and hence do not have "baptisms".  The earth is their church and Love is the connection which brings all Rastas and people who do not identify as Rasta together. 

To sit and reason and hold a space with someone who could be described a "real" Rasta is a wonderful experience.  You would find a disciplined person and someone who is of strong faith and belief while being very much at ease in their place here on earth.  Rastas hold all of God's creatures with reverence which is why they are vegans/vegetarians.  A Rasta would not judge you for your actions or beliefs and you would feel and immense energy force that is at once calming and invigorating. 



 

Bush2Beach

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2020, 12:30:14 PM »
A true that. Same way lot’s of rasta’s quote the bible , add bible verse to song and Ethiopia is the birthplace of christianity.
You can’t call all man and woman that wear dreadlock’s Rasta as there is plenty of wolf in sheep clothing.
Dreadlocks as a fashion accessory is a new phenomenon as people were ostracized for having their hair in dreadlocks and forcibly cut, beaten or jailed.
You have to cut your dreadlocks to graduate with your high school class in Jamaica still to this day.
Jamaican culture has been embraced by the world and Jamaica still can’t recognize it and celebrate it enough of the time.

Satya

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2020, 02:38:39 PM »
This discussion reminds me of the story of 6 blind men and the elephant. It is an ancient story , some believe originated from the time of Gautama the Buddha 2500 yrs ago while he preached his bhikkus. Here is the modern version, a poem by John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

"It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a SPEAR!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a SNAKE!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he:
“‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a TREE!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a FAN!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a ROPE!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,

And all were in the wrong."

Before we argue about moon phases and the plants, we can first ask does moon phases affect us humans and instead of trying to find scientific research on it's effect on humans or peer reviews etc etc the best place to start exploring it and proving it will be experimenting on yourself. (I have done it). Plants have consciousness like humans(or do they really, well this is a scientifically proven fact almost a century ago by J.C Bose an Indian scientist) and if human consciousness is influenced in any way by the moon then the same happens to a plant. But i have no way to prove this to the admin and hero members of this group and to anybody else but myself. Until we open our eyes we are all like those 6 blind men. Most of us believe that modern science gives us the eyes to see but it is funny that one can only see as much the modern science can show, science is made by us for us and modern science is just a conglomerate of what geniuses of the past have researched and proven to be true,  there is vast universe out there (and in there) that is unseen, unfathomed.

Another great topic for debate would be  - Do plants behave differently when they are observed, and observed in a certain manner with certain feelings?  No, i am not a snake oil seller. In Quantum mechanics, it is well known now that a certain electron behaves like a wave at times and behaves as a particle at other times and observation changes it's behavior. We including plants are made up of electrons are we not. Physicists have proven observation changes the behavior but they are decades or centuries away in proving how love and hate can change the behavior of the electrons. So it is not shameful to say that you sang to your plant today or you kissed your plant or you rubbed humus to the plant as a way of expressing your love to the plant. My 2 cents, we are adults we don't need to argue about it like the 6 blind men, keep an open mind and sharpen your 6 senses because we are dulling them everyday.




mangomadness

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2020, 02:43:09 PM »
@Satya I was told that story, when I was a child :), nice
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 03:00:27 PM by mangomadness »
With compliments



mangomadness

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2020, 02:44:13 PM »
@tangtonic @Bush2beach interestesting read
With compliments



Tang Tonic

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2020, 02:55:11 PM »
Amazing post Satya! You said exactly what I was feeling in such an eloquent ans succinct way.

My wide is reading this book right now called "he Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World" by Michael Pollan.  She says its quite good!

bovine421

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Re: A
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2020, 03:32:19 PM »
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

If you don't believe that the moon affects plants because there are no scientific peer reviewed articles, well so be it.

I think as other people have alluded, its simply not something that even needs to be debated, the relationship between plants and the moon is very much just a natural connection (similar to their relationship with the sun through its seasons).  The moon affects so many things here on earth and there are many mysteries science has yet to unlock and solve.  Therefore, I don't think "science" is the great arbitrator of truth that everyone thinks it is, and I am by study and have worked my entire professional life as an environmental scientist.

This below though is not really accurate: 

Rasta is the person, Farian is the religion. Baptist is a person who baptizes.  Baptists church advocates baptism by total immersion in water. I am not sure of the method Rastabaptist use. The first chance i get i will ask but my religion is Australian :)
[/quote]

Not that many people on here would care, but most Rastas would be offended if you called their practices a religion.  The earth is their church and they don't define their practices as you might expect.  There are several subsets suchas Bobo Ashanti, Twelve Tribes of Judah, Nyahbingi, etc.

Rasta believe that Haile Selassie who was a direct descendant of King Solomon and Queen of Shebah was a divine entity as prophesied by Marcus Garvey.  Haile Selassie was born with the name Tafari Makonnen and later added the Ras in front which translates to head.

There is a lot more to it than that but just wanted to clarify, Rastafari was the name of an Ethiopian King also known as Haile Selassie and was given the titles: King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah.  The people who believe he was divine, are called Rastafarians.

There is no connection between Rasta and Baptists.  Rastas denounce all religions and hence do not have "baptisms".  The earth is their church and Love is the connection which brings all Rastas and people who do not identify as Rasta together. 

To sit and reason and hold a space with someone who could be described a "real" Rasta is a wonderful experience.  You would find a disciplined person and someone who is of strong faith and belief while being very much at ease in their place here on earth.  Rastas hold all of God's creatures with reverence which is why they are vegans/vegetarians.  A Rasta would not judge you for your actions or beliefs and you would feel and immense energy force that is at once calming and invigorating.
[/quote]
Yes you are correct sir! There is no such thing as a Rastafarian Baptist. I just added that to my story to make it more colorful. I was not expecting to get called out and I double down on the guano and came up with a quick retort. I would also like to clarify that there is no religion called Australian. Thank you for making this a teachable moment. I apologize to all the reptile lovers, the Australians, the Druids, and the Rastafarians.I am sorry. From now on I'll try to be more dry and boring and more culturally sensitive. Oh yes I must apologize to the star war fans. I am sorry for making Jabba The Hutt into a tropical fruit fairy that looks like a giant flying slug  :(.Thank you very much for your time bovine :)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 04:33:08 PM by bovine421 »
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Mike T

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2020, 04:33:39 PM »
Yes I think the Ethiopian connection is real. Stories of talking animals whether they be frogs and scorpions or snakes and elephants with a moral based on wisdom to be gleaned are very entertaining but probably should be modelled on actual animal behaviour to have real sting.
It is the leaps in logic and wild assumptions I was talking about. Because gravity and moonlight exist then we should do very specific things based on faith not cause and effect. Faith and old are not bad things but the search for truth should be based on merit. Wisdom has connotations with religious overtones and using the blind in analogies works but we shouldn't be blind by choice.

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Re: Gardening by the moon-phases
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2020, 06:18:24 PM »
@Satya - very well put and intelligent way to view the question in my opinion. What gets printed in scientific journals and what actually gets funding is completely different.

The act of observing certainly has an impact. I see this with employees, children, pets etc. I dont see why plants would be any different. Where attention goes, energy flows.

I'd be interested in seeing what happens if you plant two seedlings, one supervised by continuous camera footage, one without.

 

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