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Author Topic: Hoop house  (Read 5403 times)

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2017, 10:43:52 AM »
Last I checked our well TDS was aroud 600.  City water in San Diego is 400ish. 

I already have an RO system in my house for drinking water and only do the membrane every year.  Its always still getting us down to 75ppm but we still replace it.

I havent checked what the TDS is at on this outdoor unit.  I assume its similar to the house unit and 75ish ppm.  Will check that out.

I am planning on filling the hoop house with plants and they will all get RO.  So it will be getting used.  My guess is 2 or 3 used membranes a year max. The unit does have an adjustment for how much waste water it produces.  I ran a long line out of the hoop house onto my bananas and passion fruits with the waste water.  So the RO is flushing extra water onto my outside plants.  The high waste water setting is supposed to extend membrane life.  Since you and I have well water and also can use the waste water, no need to feel guilty or worry about cost to using more water.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 10:46:46 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2017, 08:48:24 AM »
Thanks for the info.  Your 600 PPM for TDS doesn't make me feel so challenged.

Isn't more waste water slough off an indication of purer treated water, lower PPM?  I could care less about the amount BTW.  I'll just run the waste tube out into the weeds by the greenhouse.


spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2017, 01:00:40 PM »
The unit is making 35ppm.  Thats pretty good.  More waste means less wear on the membrane.  So this unit cleans pretty well...
Brad Spaugh

Th3_BrazilianShark

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2018, 08:59:39 PM »
The unit is making 35ppm.  Thats pretty good.  More waste means less wear on the membrane.  So this unit cleans pretty well...

Congratulations! I really loved it and I can't wait to start building mine. I have a similar RO system, but to avoid replacing the membrane so often, I decided to install a Hydro-Logic Tall Boy De-Chlorinator and Sediment Filter. The reason I did that is because the tall boy filter are very cheap and it doesn't overload the RO.


spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2018, 09:00:15 PM »
Mark, I just wanted to update you on the mist pump.  All I can say is it works amazing.  Not cheap, probably 1500$ or so of misting pump, fittings, nozzles, and a couple fans.  But this thing works amazing.  I have a 30$ amazon humidity controller running it automatically.

The exhaust fan and shutters in the HH are on a thermostat and come on around 90F or wherever I set it.  Then as dry air is pulled int, the humidity drops below 40% or whatever its set to and the mist pump kicks on.  Runs for a minute or so and shuts off and drops the temps.  The exhaust and mist usually shut off at the same time and the temperature and humidity in the HH are pegged wherever I want them. 

I would highly recommend it with one exception.  Since you guys have more humidity, I don't know if it will work as well for you.  Humidity here has been 15 to 35% lately.  Quite low and this is our wet season.  It should work extremely well in summer.  I can do a video next time its hot here.  Had it running quite a bit a few days ago.  Today it was cooler and more humid and hardly ran.

The HH is doing amazing things for my plants.  I always thought I was bad at growing container plants.  It turns out having the right humidity makes a huge difference.  No more brown leaf tips and everything is actively flushing mid winter. 

Ive got about 50 mango trees and 50 avocado trees started.  Lots of cherimoyas and dragon fruits also.  I put some coffee seeds in pots recently, hopefully those pop.  We are also growing tomatos, cilantro, onions, and peppers.  We also let loose 1500 lady bugs inside and they fixed the aphids we had on some trees in just a few days.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 09:04:38 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Samu

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2018, 09:39:13 PM »
Wow Spaugh, looks like your HH is really getting to be a comfortable environment for your plants to grow in; congratulation!

One thing though, seems like there is a correlation between owning a HH and a boat that I used to own. Every time I looked and thinker, yes it will get improved, but it ain't cheap! I read this in boating forum years ago, someone said the acronym of B.O.A.T.
is Break Out Another Thousand... ;D

Wondering if one can have a functional Hoop House built on a budget?
Sam

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2018, 10:13:03 PM »
Haha, hoop house is much cheaper than a boat.  But yes way more $ than I ever planned on.  Its all finished now and I am quite happy with it.

If you ever come to san diego you should come for a visit Samu.
Brad Spaugh

Samu

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2018, 02:12:41 AM »
Glad that it's "all finished" now, but, are you sure Spaugh?  ;D

Ok, when opportunity present itself for me to go down to San Diego,
I would love to pay you a visit Spaugh; thanks a lot!
Same to you, an open invitation for coffee etc. if you happen to be in
my neighborhood...

By the way, did you know that our long time member "Mark in Texas" suffered tremendous loss due to heater malfunction on his GH due to recent cold waves?  Feeling so sorry for him. He posted the news at the Buy/Sell/Trade section on JF's scion sales...http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22770.300


Sam

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2018, 09:35:48 AM »
I had not seen that.  That really sucks.  Luckily here the cold is not an issue.  The heat on the other hand could cook my plants.  If there is a power outage and my fans and mist system go down when its 110 things are going to get roasted.   I am usually around and have a small generator in as of emergency. 

And yes, this thing is done done.  For now...
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2018, 08:31:33 AM »
Really glad you got the setup going, thanks for the update!  New crop sounds great.  FWIW, cilantro and dill thrive on cold weather.  Mine went thru 13F for hours with no damage.  When planted late spring, they and many other veggies like lettuce go to seed quickly.

Been toying with the idea flash system for years, still running these damn swamp coolers.  Having said that what pump did you finally get and is it loud?  Did you place it outside or inside of the greenhouse?  I assume it receives R/O water so you don't have to worry about clogging nozzles.  I was thinking about starting with about 12 ruby nozzles with a ring around the dry outputs of the coolers and some hanging in the rafters.  What maintenance issues do you foresee other than changing out R/O filters?  Appreciate the feedback Brad.

Yeah, I lost everything including exotics like dwarf Plumerias from Thailand, rootstocks, pitaya, maters, mangos, avocados, etc. stuff I've been sourcing and grafting since about 2008.  Felt physically sick for days thanks to the loss.  The only thing that may come thru undamaged is a Meyer lemon on Flying Dragon.  Had 18F, for how long I don't know and what's ironical is I had wrote in our TX Fruit Facebook group I was going to get a wireless alarm system installed.   Never did get the alarm and am playing the "kick me" game now.  I also had a 50K BTU propane back up system, a big garage pot type heater. Many Texas growers took a big hit indoors in greenhouses and out.  Ed Self, a long time collector and once Florida resident lost priceless collections from the 80's when a flying shed busted into his hoop house while he was away.  Got down to 13F for him.   FWIW he sold most of his stock to Adam before moving to central Texas.  Our March 3 scion exchange will be more of a Pity Party.  ;D 
 






Holiday still hanging on the dead cocktail tree (Ardith, Holiday, Pinkerton, Sir Prize). Huge, must be 2#.  Had a couple of them and this was from a 2016 grafting.  Highly recommend this one.



We made a huge batch of orange marmalade yesterday with about 85% Blood oranges, the rest being one large delicious grapefruit, Meyer lemons, key lime. I added 2 vanilla beans.  Needless to say we've juicing a lot too and still have tons of fruit hanging, on the ground, kitchen counter, etc.  I bet I have 100 Reeds and Oro Negro, the latter just beginning to turn black. ON is not up to the quality of stuff like Reed, Sir Prize, Pinkerton, etc. but the quality is surprising. Seems the older the tree the better (richer) the fruit.  Big seed, great texture, not really nutty though, thick peel which I like.



Based on what happens (I need rootstocks) am playing the waiting game to see if anything pushes from the soil or mulch. Then I can go from there.  Have had tremendous offers for scions which is greatly appreciated.  Lost a shitload of pineapples many the White Sugarloaf and very big White Jade.  Will order clones in a month.



Regards,
Mark
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 08:57:33 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2018, 08:45:35 AM »
I had not seen that.  That really sucks.  Luckily here the cold is not an issue.  The heat on the other hand could cook my plants.  If there is a power outage and my fans and mist system go down when its 110 things are going to get roasted.   I am usually around and have a small generator in as of emergency. 

And yes, this thing is done done.  For now...

I had failure with an on board limit switch.  This was a Melnor fan forced 120K BTU propane heater - controllers tell the burners to kick on, fan failed to run, unit gets hot, safety device trips, heater is put into a temporary shut down mode.  A/C tech had it fixed in an hour.  Point being you can't count on electrical devices, reason why I had a big garage type propane pot in case the electricity went out.  Never thought of a heater failure during one of the coldest nights in many years.

If you got the bucks you could install a self starting Generac whole house generator tying into the main breaker box. 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 08:59:34 AM by Mark in Texas »

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2018, 10:31:32 AM »
Mark, I am really sorry to hear that.  The time, effort and money that goes into building a collection like that...  So sorry.  I actually have a lot of seedlings in 1/2 gal grow bags.  Avo, mango, cherimoya, and dragon fruit.  If you want any of it I can mail you starter trees and scions.

The mist pump is 1/3 gpm fully enclosed from aeromist.com 
Its running on well water filtered down to 5 microns.  I have our entire property filtered to 5 microns but if you don't have that it would bet an additional item for maintenance.  Otherwise I see little to no maintenance needed on this thing.  Its a beast and should keep on ticking for a long time.  It sucks 8amps so its 1000w power hog.  I dont really care since we have a big solar system and have excess power.  But that could be a concern for people with already high power bills.  Pump is mounted inside.  It makes a little noise but nothing annoying.  You can sit right next to it and have a conversation and barely notice it.  It kind of hums and noise should not bother you.  I am running 8 .008" nozzles.  Your GH would require a larger pump.  Maybe 1/2 gpm or 3/4gpm.  You really want to put the nozzles on fans.  The water evaporates a lot better on a fan. 

I will post up photos in a bit when I get out in the garden today.
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2018, 12:42:29 PM »











Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2018, 09:49:51 AM »
Mark, I am really sorry to hear that.  The time, effort and money that goes into building a collection like that...  So sorry.  I actually have a lot of seedlings in 1/2 gal grow bags.  Avo, mango, cherimoya, and dragon fruit.  If you want any of it I can mail you starter trees and scions.

Wow, how nice is that!  Will PM you my plans.  BTW, a staff and avid gardener at RootMaker told me recently that the grow bags are her favorite.  Not only do they do what they're designed to do but require less watering during the hot Alabama summer months.  I just got a roll of Rootbuilder to add onto my greenhouse pots, not that I'll need it any time soon now, but.  If interested, try to get it wholesale.  It's $160 a roll wholesale, 96 panels.  UPS cost me $40.  4 panels = 15 gal.; 5 = 20 gal.; and  so on.  8 = 55 gal. which is what I finish out at.  You're probably only using the house for starters though.

Quote
The mist pump is 1/3 gpm fully enclosed from aeromist.com 
Its running on well water filtered down to 5 microns.

You're not worried about the salts clogging the nozzles or dusting the plants white?  That's the main reason why I haven't jumped on this yet.  Was advised to go with a R/O system (or rain water) preceded by a water softener which extends the life of the R/O membranes.  Hell, if you think I can get by with straight filtered well water at a TDS of 830 PPM, I'm ordering tomorrow.

BTW, that is one sweet set up.  You're really doing it right.

Quote
  I have our entire property filtered to 5 microns but if you don't have that it would bet an additional item for maintenance.  Otherwise I see little to no maintenance needed on this thing.  Its a beast and should keep on ticking for a long time.  It sucks 8amps so its 1000w power hog.  I dont really care since we have a big solar system and have excess power.  But that could be a concern for people with already high power bills.  Pump is mounted inside.  It makes a little noise but nothing annoying.  You can sit right next to it and have a conversation and barely notice it.  It kind of hums and noise should not bother you.  I am running 8 .008" nozzles.  Your GH would require a larger pump.  Maybe 1/2 gpm or 3/4gpm.  You really want to put the nozzles on fans.  The water evaporates a lot better on a fan. 

300 or 1,000 PSI pump?

Thanks!

ThangBom321

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2018, 10:26:59 AM »
Omg so sorry Mark. I'd be so pissed! Hell I'm pissed right now that my passion fruit vine died!

What a nice hoop house! There one I plan to build will be late budget. I like that rocket mass heater. Will most likely add that idea. Anyhow, you guys are cool! I want to join the cool hoop/green house kids.

Thangbom

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2018, 11:55:42 AM »
Mark, its 1000psi pump.   Its the lowest flow rate they make in 1000psi.

https://www.aeromist.com/misting-pumps/enclosed-direct-drive-1000-psi/totally-enclosed-direct-drive-pump-1-3-gpm.html

Remember my HH is about 4000 cu ft volume.  I would say this pump is maybe still slightly oversized.  You could go with 1/2 gpm size for your GH.  1 gpm might be ok but you will be throwing a lot of water around with that.  I bought .006", .008", and .012" nozzles just to see how they all work.  The smaller ones evaporate and have less drop out than the larger ones.  My advice would be get a smaller GPM pump and run lots of small nozzles. 

Time will tell but no Im not that worried about clogging nozzles.  The nozzles can be cleaned.  And its been several weeks now and they are working fine.  Worst case scenario the nozzles can be replaced.  The tip with the oriface can be replaced for a few bucks each.  If that starts to be a problem, I can just use RO.  The reason I am not using RO is because I dont really know what kind of input pressure the pump needs.  I have RO in a barrel right next to the pump and could easily use it.  I just don't know if it needs a boost pump.  I could call and find out.  If not, I may do that.  The water evaporates really quick and doesnt seem to leave white spots on the plants. 

I am growing a few plants for fun in 15 gal plants.  Then Ive got a bunch of smaller starter trees that will get planted out or sold.  The plan is to get a slot at the farmers market to unload some fruit from our orchard in a few years and maybe get into selling trees locally.  I have about 100 trees of all types in ground currently.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 11:59:00 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2018, 05:38:10 PM »
My heart aches for you Mark in Texas. You got lots of nice collections and was doing so well too.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2018, 06:56:02 PM »
Thanks for the kind words knlim000 and ThangBom.  All I got to say, again, is...."mother nature is a cruel mistress".

Appreciate the great info Brad and the link.  I figured out how much gph I'd need and noted it on file.  Wasn't much.   I may just go with the system on well water and tweek as necessary.  I can always rinse the trees with rain water is the bicarb dusts collect.  There's a large restaurant north of Austin that has an outdoor dining patio using with flash high pressure cooling.  The plants and patrons look and feel fine.  ;D  The owner treats his water with TAC technology both for drinking and the cooling system.  Water is processed through a catalytic media using a physical process called Template Assisted Crystallization (TAC).  https://www.wqpmag.com/water-conditioning-take-your-pick

From May thru Sept. my RH runs around 15 - 40%, depends on recent rains which are pretty rare during the summer. 

Regards,
Mark




spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2018, 07:54:05 PM »
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2018, 04:41:25 PM »
Heres a video Mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIbdq446Rio&feature=youtu.be

Wow, "very cool" !   Love the fans.  Super nice setup.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2018, 07:50:50 AM »
Excellent site regarding all phases of greenhouse management.  Here's a fine article on fogging Brad.
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/technology/natural-ventilation-and-fog-increase-cooling-efficiency/

Efficiency and effects on plants using indirect heating (combustion products are exhausted) and free standing non vented heaters is also interesting.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2018, 02:49:31 PM »
Mark, I talked to aeromist and they said no issue gravity feeding RO water to my 1/3gpm mist pump.  So I have one of my barrels feeding the pump now with RO.  Seems to work fine.  I was getting calcium on the fans and figured may as well try it with RO.  Seems fine, just have to make sure the RO keeps up with the pump size and usage.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2018, 01:00:30 AM »
That is looking suhhhhhhweeet.  Is that redwood framing?  You could easily install very efficient DIY vertical wet pads each side of the door.

If I had to do it all over again and wanted to produce fruit hortizonally rather than vertically I'd learn and do the japanese way for mangos, avocados, cherimoyas, etc.   My greenhouse columns are 10' with a roof peak at 18'.  Wish they were 8' to cut down on heating costs and maintenance.
Check out page 22 and on.   http://www.hawaiitropicalfruitgrowers.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_PruningforAvocadoandMangoProduction.pdf


my mind is blown

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2018, 08:01:21 AM »
Mark, I talked to aeromist and they said no issue gravity feeding RO water to my 1/3gpm mist pump.  So I have one of my barrels feeding the pump now with RO.  Seems to work fine.  I was getting calcium on the fans and figured may as well try it with RO.  Seems fine, just have to make sure the RO keeps up with the pump size and usage.

Thanks for the info again.  Have decided to not include a water softener before the R/O knowing full well I'll be replacing filter membranes often.

Yeah, those Japanese methods are pretty wild Andrew.  Just wonder how they would hold up after 10 years or so.  Note, they can't be getting a lot of light but look at that production, sheesh!

andrewq

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2018, 10:20:18 AM »
Mark, I talked to aeromist and they said no issue gravity feeding RO water to my 1/3gpm mist pump.  So I have one of my barrels feeding the pump now with RO.  Seems to work fine.  I was getting calcium on the fans and figured may as well try it with RO.  Seems fine, just have to make sure the RO keeps up with the pump size and usage.

Thanks for the info again.  Have decided to not include a water softener before the R/O knowing full well I'll be replacing filter membranes often.

Yeah, those Japanese methods are pretty wild Andrew.  Just wonder how they would hold up after 10 years or so.  Note, they can't be getting a lot of light but look at that production, sheesh!

itís almost like container growing... the container forum folks strongly encourage root pruning and replacement of the container mix every 1-2 years. iíve asked them about mega-sized container growing and there doesnít seem to be as much experience.

i missed the part about decreasing exposure to light. what was the reason?


iím going to try this with my some of my container lychees

 

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