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Author Topic: Hoop house  (Read 15932 times)

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2018, 10:35:11 AM »
Mark, I talked to aeromist and they said no issue gravity feeding RO water to my 1/3gpm mist pump.  So I have one of my barrels feeding the pump now with RO.  Seems to work fine.  I was getting calcium on the fans and figured may as well try it with RO.  Seems fine, just have to make sure the RO keeps up with the pump size and usage.

Thanks for the info again.  Have decided to not include a water softener before the R/O knowing full well I'll be replacing filter membranes often.

Yeah, those Japanese methods are pretty wild Andrew.  Just wonder how they would hold up after 10 years or so.  Note, they can't be getting a lot of light but look at that production, sheesh!

Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.
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Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2018, 12:27:56 PM »
Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.

Not yet.  I need to get other farm chores out of the way and we still have about 3 mos. before hot weather hits.  BTW, I did all the calculations a few years ago.

R/O was originally designed for purifying salt water.  Talked to quite a few techs and they parrot the same thing - considering my super hard water which is high in bicarbs of Mg and Ca and sulfates, I should precede the system in order to extend the life of the membranes.  I know, doesn't make sense to me either.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2018, 01:10:48 PM »
Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.

Not yet.  I need to get other farm chores out of the way and we still have about 3 mos. before hot weather hits.  BTW, I did all the calculations a few years ago.

R/O was originally designed for purifying salt water.  Talked to quite a few techs and they parrot the same thing - considering my super hard water which is high in bicarbs of Mg and Ca and sulfates, I should precede the system in order to extend the life of the membranes.  I know, doesn't make sense to me either.

I would try it and just see how it goes.  Membranes are an easy fix and you are back to new again.
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2018, 03:09:01 PM »
Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.


Not yet.  I need to get other farm chores out of the way and we still have about 3 mos. before hot weather hits.  BTW, I did all the calculations a few years ago.

R/O was originally designed for purifying salt water.  Talked to quite a few techs and they parrot the same thing - considering my super hard water which is high in bicarbs of Mg and Ca and sulfates, I should precede the system in order to extend the life of the membranes.  I know, doesn't make sense to me either.


I would try it and just see how it goes.  Membranes are an easy fix and you are back to new again.


Everyone including Aeromist has confirmed that if your water is hard you need a salt softener first.  http://blog.watertech.com/is-reverse-osmosis-needed-if-have-a-water-softener/

This dilemna is what has kept me on the fence for years.  Think I'll go with another but much bigger rainwater tank, stuck under the un-used greenhouse gutter, tie the two tanks together and draw off that for both watering plants and the mist system.  Aeromist is working me up a system now - rings on the outputs of swamp coolers and nozzles in the rafters.  Can buy a 1,075 gal. tank for $610 plus a short drive to Austin to pick it up.



spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2018, 03:21:30 PM »
If you get enough rainfall throughout summer to keep the tank from drying up then for sure that is the best option.

I dont doubt a softener helps the RO unit last longer.  What I don't really know is if buying one and then paying for salts will ever offset the cost of membranes.  The membranes are only 20$ and I really can't see needing to replace more than 2 per year.

I will find out though.  I am nonitoring the TDS of my RO water that feeds the mist pump.  As long as its staying at 35ppm or close to that I'm not touching it.  Its been a few months now and still at 35ppm.  I use the water for misting and watering.  Seems like it should last quite a while before replacement is necessary.

I will for sure keep an eye on it and let you know.  If I had rain here, thats what I would use too.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2018, 04:36:16 PM »
I read somewhere that people were using their used membranes as a pre filter to extend the life of the new filter. Iíve never done this myself but it makes sense.

Simon

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2018, 06:50:04 AM »
Whole house rainwater systems are pretty common around here.  Many have tank capacities of up to 42,000 gal.  Even the drought of 2011 when we got 4.5" or rain sustained my doctor's family of 6. 

Will be interesting to see how those filters hold up.  Your water is softer than mine.  For pre filters this is all I use, Amiad.  No cellulose filters, just a cylindrical S/S that you can take out of the body, wash and you're good to go.  Have one on the  house and field. http://www.amiadusa.com/filters/PL101_2.asp?filterNum=PL101

http://www.amiadusa.com/filters/PL101_2.asp?filterNum=PL101

You can get a 3/4" for as low as $15.  Dripworks is higher. Can't find the vendor link I just got one from.  https://www.dripworks.com/amiad-filters-high-pressure

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2018, 09:09:47 AM »
After getting a bid from Aeromist, I'm right back where I started.  Based on a 1 GPM pump and an outrageous calculation of (28) .008 misters, we're talking 336 gal. per day will be required.  My best guess is that would put me into a wet spa type environment!

Needless to say a storage tank is out of the question unless I want to go with a 10,000 gal.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2018, 11:06:41 AM »
Could you get a system half that size to augment you existing coolers?

Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2018, 12:07:25 PM »
Could you get a system half that size to augment you existing coolers?

The logistics of maintaining the swamp coolers is out of the question.  Salts ruin it.

Aeromist worked up another quote using less nozzles.  12 vs 28.  Nothing's easy.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2018, 12:43:47 PM »
Mark, you could always add more nozzles.  I think a 1/2 gpm pump will work for you.

And you can get a humidistat like I got and it will only run a fraction of the time. 

It should use way less than you calculated, that wold be if you ran it non stop all day.  Only on the very hottest days will it be running a lot.  My pump cycles on and off like 100 times a day.  It kicks on for 30 seconds and is off again for 5 miutes or so.  Same with my venting, it is on a thermostat and opens and closes automatically and only runs part time.



Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2018, 02:20:21 PM »
Mark, you could always add more nozzles.  I think a 1/2 gpm pump will work for you.

And you can get a humidistat like I got and it will only run a fraction of the time. 

It should use way less than you calculated, that wold be if you ran it non stop all day.  Only on the very hottest days will it be running a lot.  My pump cycles on and off like 100 times a day.  It kicks on for 30 seconds and is off again for 5 miutes or so.  Same with my venting, it is on a thermostat and opens and closes automatically and only runs part time.

Based on 10 hours run time from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. May thru Sept.  I have clear polycarb on the north wall so those plants under it get direct sun.

Yep, you have to start somewhere and there will be a dozen tweeks like my irrigation system.  Aeromist specked out a 1/3 HP pump.

My metal greenhouse gets hot, always 10 - 25 degrees hotter than ambient air temp.

 

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2018, 02:44:51 PM »
If you run it non stop it will be so foggy you will not be able to see in there.  And you will have water on everything. Trust me on this you will need to get a humidistat to throttle it back. 

This is the one I use and it keeps the humidity at 40%

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01FQKXRXA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519155758&sr=1-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=humidistat&dpPl=1&dpID=41p3jLw61%2BL&ref=plSrch
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2018, 12:05:42 PM »
If you run it non stop it will be so foggy you will not be able to see in there.  And you will have water on everything. Trust me on this you will need to get a humidistat to throttle it back. 

This is the one I use and it keeps the humidity at 40%

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01FQKXRXA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519155758&sr=1-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=humidistat&dpPl=1&dpID=41p3jLw61%2BL&ref=plSrch

Thanks for the link.  Yes, I'd put it on a stat.  BTW, Axeon recommends a poly-phosphate pre-filter especially if your water is high in Ca and Mg bicarbs.  It would extend the life of your R/O membranes.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2018, 01:37:12 PM »
I have a lot of weeds in the hoop house.  Big surprise I know.  What do you guys think about spraying with a pre emerchant?  I hate to spray chemicals in there but I wonder if I kill the weeds and sterilize it with pre emerchent that weeds will stay gone?
Brad Spaugh

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #90 on: March 08, 2018, 02:23:29 PM »
I have a lot of weeds in the hoop house.  Big surprise I know.  What do you guys think about spraying with a pre emerchant?  I hate to spray chemicals in there but I wonder if I kill the weeds and sterilize it with pre emerchent that weeds will stay gone?

I have heard 95% shade cloth pulled tight and staked is the best solution. I used junk plywood on top of visquine, rotted in 2 years...

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #91 on: March 08, 2018, 05:57:17 PM »
I have a lot of weeds in the hoop house.  Big surprise I know.  What do you guys think about spraying with a pre emerchant?  I hate to spray chemicals in there but I wonder if I kill the weeds and sterilize it with pre emerchent that weeds will stay gone?

You're not growing in the ground so it's a moot point.  I am, and I use glyphosate on weeds that grow right up to the pots which are bottomless.   Contrary to the Monsanto haters' drivel....... microbes feed on glyphosate and it's rendered benign upon contact with soil.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #92 on: March 08, 2018, 06:04:23 PM »
I have a lot of glyphosate.  The power company pays for it so I will maintain a fire break for them.

I have 2 kinds.  41% and 41% with premerchent (total control).

I am thinking remove everything and nail it with the nuclear stuff and then move back in.

Its more pain for me mark because I have lots of small propogation pots crammed together.  I have to move them all out to spray or risk getting on all the plants.
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2018, 08:38:35 AM »
I hold a barrier in one hand against my fave and spray using a qt. bottle with the other hand for such close up work.

If you really want to kick up the burn add 1 tsp. of sprayable ammonium sulfate and additional surfactant to your mix.  I use a non-ionic surfactant, about a tsp/gallon.  1 to 1.5 oz will get grasses and some broadleaves, 2 oz. will even get thistle and hard to kill broadleaves like silver nightshade.

All of this converted of course if I'm mixing 40 gallons at a time.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2018, 06:17:55 PM »
I used total control on the greenhouse floor mark, no more weeds.

Its 99F and 16% humidity outside today.  The mist pump is having no problems keeping the temperature down inside.  I have 7 .006" misters running.  I am going to start running bigger misters soon but looks like keeping the HH cool is not going to be a problem even when its 110 outside.
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2018, 08:21:19 AM »
That's wonderful news Brad.   Have a friend who knows the R/O technology well.  He advises to run the system year round daily if only a few minutes.  He's been on his for 2 years and not changed out filters.  His water is harder than mine, same aquifer.  His water filters thru more limestone than mine.

Based on my greenhouse design you think I could get by with foggers on oscillating fans rather than hassle with the ring nozzles?  Could cut down on the system size versus 2 rings attached to the fan housings, 8 nozzles and 4 nozzles hanging a foot or so down from the rafters.  Am still pondering this.  (I tend to over think this stuff)

Two high speed fans, 5000 cfm each.  Had wrens nesting in the housing!



2' H roof vent, facing leeward north side.



4' wall vent, oriented south, windward.



spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2018, 11:09:52 AM »
That's wonderful news Brad.   Have a friend who knows the R/O technology well.  He advises to run the system year round daily if only a few minutes.  He's been on his for 2 years and not changed out filters.  His water is harder than mine, same aquifer.  His water filters thru more limestone than mine.

Based on my greenhouse design you think I could get by with foggers on oscillating fans rather than hassle with the ring nozzles?  Could cut down on the system size versus 2 rings attached to the fan housings, 8 nozzles and 4 nozzles hanging a foot or so down from the rafters.  Am still pondering this.  (I tend to over think this stuff)

Two high speed fans, 5000 cfm each.  Had wrens nesting in the housing!



2' H roof vent, facing leeward north side.



4' wall vent, oriented south, windward.



So I have been running a lot of RO water for my pump and for my plants.  I have gotten a new RO membrane that is larger and rated at 400gpd.  Im not sure it makes that much but it flows pretty well.  It always keeps my barrel topped off.  69$ off ebay for the membrane and the housing.  Then it needs 2 (1/4" threaded elbows to 1/4" tube) and 1 (3/8" threaded elbow to 3/8" tube) and an autoshutoff valve.  Whole setup is under 100$.  It needs a prefilter which is already done upstream near my well to 5microns.



For oscilating fans and rings I just run cheapo fans and use the regular flexible tubing and make my own.



I think you will be fine whatever you decide.  The mist evaporates best whererver there is air moving.  Either above an air inlet to the GH or on a fan.  You could do both.  For sure put some nozzles whever air is entering the GH.  And if you run some down the middle above everything use .006 nozzles since they evap really fast.  You can always buy more tubing and fittings and adjust it.  I am sure you will need to. Based on the photos, I would probably just run a row of misters above the air intake and one aling the rafters in the middle of the GH about 10' high. 

Do your fans blow in or suck out?

Heres some photos of my HH.

Tomato and watermelon starters



Cherimoya starters




Avocado grafted starter trees







Coffee starters


Mango starters





Desert rose



Cherry tomatos year round



Dragon fruit mother plants



« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 11:19:00 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2018, 02:20:19 PM »
Damn!   Everything looks great and thanks for sharing the info and photos.

Wait to you see this rectangular RootBuilder pot I built.  As soon as get thru pulling a mile of irrigation line to sell to a peach grower and gonna backfill and plant Sugar Pitaya, Santa Barbara Red, Purple Haze.

Fans inject.  Principle is to use both injected air and air coming off the south prevailing winds thru the wall vent.  They get bad too.  Recently had gusts to 38 mph.  Pollinators and hummingbirds come and go when the vents are open.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2018, 03:10:20 PM »
Damn!   Everything looks great and thanks for sharing the info and photos.

Wait to you see this rectangular RootBuilder pot I built.  As soon as get thru pulling a mile of irrigation line to sell to a peach grower and gonna backfill and plant Sugar Pitaya, Santa Barbara Red, Purple Haze.

Fans inject.  Principle is to use both injected air and air coming off the south prevailing winds thru the wall vent.  They get bad too.  Recently had gusts to 38 mph.  Pollinators and hummingbirds come and go when the vents are open.

Thanks, if your fans inject I would run a ring on them or above them.  And above the other vent.  And maybe above everything. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 06:19:31 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2018, 08:57:29 AM »
Thanks, if your fans inject I would run a ring on them or above them.  And above the other vent.  And maybe above everything.

That's what I was thinking, a ring with 4 nozzles on each fan housing and a couple hanging from the rafters.  I also have HAF fans that point down a few degrees.

 

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