Hoop house

[spaugh]

Mark, I talked to aeromist and they said no issue gravity feeding RO water to my 1/3gpm mist pump.  So I have one of my barrels feeding the pump now with RO.  Seems to work fine.  I was getting calcium on the fans and figured may as well try it with RO.  Seems fine, just have to make sure the RO keeps up with the pump size and usage.

Thanks for the info again.  Have decided to not include a water softener before the R/O knowing full well I'll be replacing filter membranes often.

Yeah, those Japanese methods are pretty wild Andrew.  Just wonder how they would hold up after 10 years or so.  Note, they can't be getting a lot of light but look at that production, sheesh!

Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.

[Mark in Texas]

Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.

Not yet.  I need to get other farm chores out of the way and we still have about 3 mos. before hot weather hits.  BTW, I did all the calculations a few years ago.

R/O was originally designed for purifying salt water.  Talked to quite a few techs and they parrot the same thing - considering my super hard water which is high in bicarbs of Mg and Ca and sulfates, I should precede the system in order to extend the life of the membranes.  I know, doesn't make sense to me either.

[spaugh]

Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.

Not yet.  I need to get other farm chores out of the way and we still have about 3 mos. before hot weather hits.  BTW, I did all the calculations a few years ago.

R/O was originally designed for purifying salt water.  Talked to quite a few techs and they parrot the same thing - considering my super hard water which is high in bicarbs of Mg and Ca and sulfates, I should precede the system in order to extend the life of the membranes.  I know, doesn't make sense to me either.

I would try it and just see how it goes.  Membranes are an easy fix and you are back to new again.

[Mark in Texas]

Did you settle on a pump?

I think no softener is good.  You would just be paying for salts instead of membranes and more crap to maintain.

Not yet.  I need to get other farm chores out of the way and we still have about 3 mos. before hot weather hits.  BTW, I did all the calculations a few years ago.

R/O was originally designed for purifying salt water.  Talked to quite a few techs and they parrot the same thing - considering my super hard water which is high in bicarbs of Mg and Ca and sulfates, I should precede the system in order to extend the life of the membranes.  I know, doesn't make sense to me either.

I would try it and just see how it goes.  Membranes are an easy fix and you are back to new again.

Everyone including Aeromist has confirmed that if your water is hard you need a salt softener first.  http://blog.watertech.com/is-reverse-osmosis-needed-if-have-a-water-softener/

This dilemna is what has kept me on the fence for years.  Think I'll go with another but much bigger rainwater tank, stuck under the un-used greenhouse gutter, tie the two tanks together and draw off that for both watering plants and the mist system.  Aeromist is working me up a system now - rings on the outputs of swamp coolers and nozzles in the rafters.  Can buy a 1,075 gal. tank for $610 plus a short drive to Austin to pick it up.

[spaugh]

If you get enough rainfall throughout summer to keep the tank from drying up then for sure that is the best option.

I dont doubt a softener helps the RO unit last longer.  What I don't really know is if buying one and then paying for salts will ever offset the cost of membranes.  The membranes are only 20$ and I really can't see needing to replace more than 2 per year.

I will find out though.  I am nonitoring the TDS of my RO water that feeds the mist pump.  As long as its staying at 35ppm or close to that I'm not touching it.  Its been a few months now and still at 35ppm.  I use the water for misting and watering.  Seems like it should last quite a while before replacement is necessary.

I will for sure keep an eye on it and let you know.  If I had rain here, thats what I would use too.

[simon_grow]

I read somewhere that people were using their used membranes as a pre filter to extend the life of the new filter. I’ve never done this myself but it makes sense.

Simon

[Mark in Texas]

Whole house rainwater systems are pretty common around here.  Many have tank capacities of up to 42,000 gal.  Even the drought of 2011 when we got 4.5" or rain sustained my doctor's family of 6. 

Will be interesting to see how those filters hold up.  Your water is softer than mine.  For pre filters this is all I use, Amiad.  No cellulose filters, just a cylindrical S/S that you can take out of the body, wash and you're good to go.  Have one on the  house and field. http://www.amiadusa.com/filters/PL101_2.asp?filterNum=PL101

http://www.amiadusa.com/filters/PL101_2.asp?filterNum=PL101

You can get a 3/4" for as low as $15.  Dripworks is higher. Can't find the vendor link I just got one from.  https://www.dripworks.com/amiad-filters-high-pressure

[Mark in Texas]

After getting a bid from Aeromist, I'm right back where I started.  Based on a 1 GPM pump and an outrageous calculation of (28) .008 misters, we're talking 336 gal. per day will be required.  My best guess is that would put me into a wet spa type environment!

Needless to say a storage tank is out of the question unless I want to go with a 10,000 gal.

[spaugh]

Could you get a system half that size to augment you existing coolers?

[Mark in Texas]

Could you get a system half that size to augment you existing coolers?

The logistics of maintaining the swamp coolers is out of the question.  Salts ruin it.

Aeromist worked up another quote using less nozzles.  12 vs 28.  Nothing's easy.

[spaugh]

Mark, you could always add more nozzles.  I think a 1/2 gpm pump will work for you.

And you can get a humidistat like I got and it will only run a fraction of the time. 

It should use way less than you calculated, that wold be if you ran it non stop all day.  Only on the very hottest days will it be running a lot.  My pump cycles on and off like 100 times a day.  It kicks on for 30 seconds and is off again for 5 miutes or so.  Same with my venting, it is on a thermostat and opens and closes automatically and only runs part time.

[Mark in Texas]

Mark, you could always add more nozzles.  I think a 1/2 gpm pump will work for you.

And you can get a humidistat like I got and it will only run a fraction of the time. 

It should use way less than you calculated, that wold be if you ran it non stop all day.  Only on the very hottest days will it be running a lot.  My pump cycles on and off like 100 times a day.  It kicks on for 30 seconds and is off again for 5 miutes or so.  Same with my venting, it is on a thermostat and opens and closes automatically and only runs part time.

Based on 10 hours run time from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. May thru Sept.  I have clear polycarb on the north wall so those plants under it get direct sun.

Yep, you have to start somewhere and there will be a dozen tweeks like my irrigation system.  Aeromist specked out a 1/3 HP pump.

My metal greenhouse gets hot, always 10 - 25 degrees hotter than ambient air temp.

 

[spaugh]

If you run it non stop it will be so foggy you will not be able to see in there.  And you will have water on everything. Trust me on this you will need to get a humidistat to throttle it back. 

This is the one I use and it keeps the humidity at 40%

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01FQKXRXA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519155758&sr=1-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=humidistat&dpPl=1&dpID=41p3jLw61%2BL&ref=plSrch

[Mark in Texas]

If you run it non stop it will be so foggy you will not be able to see in there.  And you will have water on everything. Trust me on this you will need to get a humidistat to throttle it back. 

This is the one I use and it keeps the humidity at 40%

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01FQKXRXA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519155758&sr=1-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=humidistat&dpPl=1&dpID=41p3jLw61%2BL&ref=plSrch

Thanks for the link.  Yes, I'd put it on a stat.  BTW, Axeon recommends a poly-phosphate pre-filter especially if your water is high in Ca and Mg bicarbs.  It would extend the life of your R/O membranes.

[spaugh]

I have a lot of weeds in the hoop house.  Big surprise I know.  What do you guys think about spraying with a pre emerchant?  I hate to spray chemicals in there but I wonder if I kill the weeds and sterilize it with pre emerchent that weeds will stay gone?

[FrankDrebinOfFruits]

I have a lot of weeds in the hoop house.  Big surprise I know.  What do you guys think about spraying with a pre emerchant?  I hate to spray chemicals in there but I wonder if I kill the weeds and sterilize it with pre emerchent that weeds will stay gone?

I have heard 95% shade cloth pulled tight and staked is the best solution. I used junk plywood on top of visquine, rotted in 2 years...

[Mark in Texas]

I have a lot of weeds in the hoop house.  Big surprise I know.  What do you guys think about spraying with a pre emerchant?  I hate to spray chemicals in there but I wonder if I kill the weeds and sterilize it with pre emerchent that weeds will stay gone?

You're not growing in the ground so it's a moot point.  I am, and I use glyphosate on weeds that grow right up to the pots which are bottomless.   Contrary to the Monsanto haters' drivel....... microbes feed on glyphosate and it's rendered benign upon contact with soil.

[spaugh]

I have a lot of glyphosate.  The power company pays for it so I will maintain a fire break for them.

I have 2 kinds.  41% and 41% with premerchent (total control).

I am thinking remove everything and nail it with the nuclear stuff and then move back in.

Its more pain for me mark because I have lots of small propogation pots crammed together.  I have to move them all out to spray or risk getting on all the plants.

[Mark in Texas]

I hold a barrier in one hand against my fave and spray using a qt. bottle with the other hand for such close up work.

If you really want to kick up the burn add 1 tsp. of sprayable ammonium sulfate and additional surfactant to your mix.  I use a non-ionic surfactant, about a tsp/gallon.  1 to 1.5 oz will get grasses and some broadleaves, 2 oz. will even get thistle and hard to kill broadleaves like silver nightshade.

All of this converted of course if I'm mixing 40 gallons at a time.