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Author Topic: Hoop house  (Read 15302 times)

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #125 on: May 09, 2019, 11:33:46 AM »
Mark, you have big vents but its still not enough obviously.  You probably won't like my idea but after dealing with the same problems, its what Im doing.  I'm removing the end walls and lifting the long walls open. 

In your case, it might be easiest to just remove the the panels on E, W, and N Ends of the GH and let it fully breath.  If thry come off easily thats what I would do instead of building a big mist system that sucks water and power and filters...

I'd just open that SOB up half the year. 
Brad Spaugh

SeaWalnut

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #126 on: May 09, 2019, 03:53:22 PM »
I use RODI a lot and continuously and i dont buy allready build systems because im always changing charcoal,DI resin to them,even the 5 microns filters i modifyed and i use my own media instead.Theres no need for those gauges and theyre useless just for marketing reasons added because if the last filter its stuck ,then all the gauges before will show the same pressure.This evaporative cooling system might be       more economic to use than RO foggers. I know its extensively used in USA so you might be allready familiar with it. https://youtu.be/bxxxNtJ8-2o

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #127 on: May 10, 2019, 10:24:00 AM »
Mark, you have big vents but its still not enough obviously.  You probably won't like my idea but after dealing with the same problems, its what Im doing.  I'm removing the end walls and lifting the long walls open. 

In your case, it might be easiest to just remove the the panels on E, W, and N Ends of the GH and let it fully breath.  If thry come off easily thats what I would do instead of building a big mist system that sucks water and power and filters...

I'd just open that SOB up half the year.

This aint cheap polyvinyl. I can't just pull 1,000 self tapping screws out of corrugated polycarbonate panels plus we still get temps in the upper 90's and it's not unusual to have temps over 100F for days on end.  If you knew what it takes to drive one of the screws into this hardened steel you'd understand.  You have to use a carbide/tungsten drill just to start the hole.

Again, I'm not building a big mist system.  I don't have the patience for all the crap that goes into it.  Did you see the Aquafog device for $1,347?  Hang it, plug it in and you're done. 15 gph of fog which studies have shown is much more effective and energy conscious than stuff like wet pads.

https://www.jaybird-mfg.com/applications/

tve

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #128 on: May 10, 2019, 11:15:40 AM »
That fogger looks interesting indeed. I look forward to hearing how it works! It's not cheap enough for me to just buy one to try out...

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #129 on: May 10, 2019, 01:11:31 PM »
Mark, you have big vents but its still not enough obviously.  You probably won't like my idea but after dealing with the same problems, its what Im doing.  I'm removing the end walls and lifting the long walls open. 

In your case, it might be easiest to just remove the the panels on E, W, and N Ends of the GH and let it fully breath.  If thry come off easily thats what I would do instead of building a big mist system that sucks water and power and filters...

I'd just open that SOB up half the year.

This aint cheap polyvinyl. I can't just pull 1,000 self tapping screws out of corrugated polycarbonate panels plus we still get temps in the upper 90's and it's not unusual to have temps over 100F for days on end.  If you knew what it takes to drive one of the screws into this hardened steel you'd understand.  You have to use a carbide/tungsten drill just to start the hole.

Again, I'm not building a big mist system.  I don't have the patience for all the crap that goes into it.  Did you see the Aquafog device for $1,347?  Hang it, plug it in and you're done. 15 gph of fog which studies have shown is much more effective and energy conscious than stuff like wet pads.

https://www.jaybird-mfg.com/applications/

Ok, I didnt know how easy or difficult it would be.  The mist fan looks good, its just all the bullshit you have to do to get low TDS water to it.  Its a major PITA.

Anyway you are a smart guy and been around the block.  I'm sure will get it figured out.  Keep us posted. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #130 on: May 10, 2019, 02:19:06 PM »
Heres the current state of the project.  The door is going up and then it will be time to cover it.  There is no rush since its 95F here today.  Just trying to take my time and do it right the first time.

We do not get frost here but we do get into the mid 30s a few nights a year and also have extreme heat and low humidity in summer.  The HH is equiped with a fan that can replace the air every minute and I am thinking aluminite shade will go over the outside during summer to regulate temps.  The goal is to provide a more moderate environmwnt for my young potted plants and a for fun plants like coffee etc.  Warmer and dryer in winter and cooler more humid in summer.

This would be a good opportunity to try out ground source heating/cooling system. Basically lay down big air pipes around your greenhouse or adjacent field, at least 6 ft down. It will utilize the ground as your heat source and sink providing fresh air of constant temperature come summer or winter, or whenever the thermostat requests it. Only the power consumption of an air blower.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #131 on: May 10, 2019, 03:16:36 PM »
Thats a nice high tech looking fogger but i would find out first in what way does it makes the fog,with high pressure nozzles or by ultrasounds.Also how much electric power it draws its important because at somme point ( if it works on ultrasounds) it might be cheaper/more efficient to just install an AC. I will probably use the cheaper misters that everhybody uses for greenhouse that work on 4 bar pressure and in case they got stuck il use a polyphosphate filter .Mounted on a humidity controller like Spaugh reccomended .https://youtu.be/vfOhrTyGy4I

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #132 on: May 10, 2019, 05:57:20 PM »
Thats a nice high tech looking fogger but i would find out first in what way does it makes the fog,with high pressure nozzles or by ultrasounds.Also how much electric power it draws its important because at somme point ( if it works on ultrasounds) it might be cheaper/more efficient to just install an AC. I will probably use the cheaper misters that everhybody uses for greenhouse that work on 4 bar pressure and in case they got stuck il use a polyphosphate filter .Mounted on a humidity controller like Spaugh reccomended .https://youtu.be/vfOhrTyGy4I

Way ahead of ya. I'm a research freak.  "Aw shit!" is not in my vocabulary. 

Brad, got it, THANKS!

https://www.jaybird-mfg.com/products/gt-500-series/gt-500-hanging-sump/

Product description:  Hanging Sump Fog System

The GT 500 Hanging Sump is a ready-to-operate unit designed for interior humidification, evaporative cooling, and chemical fogging. Components are UV stabilized and suitable for outdoor use.

This centrifugal atomizer has a rear-feed blade system that produces billions of tiny, fog-like particles that evaporate quickly. A hydrophilic front guard helps keep floors dry. The unit’s sump recycles wastewater and conserves water, making this unit great for use in drought-prone areas. The GT Hanging Sump uses a float valve to maintain the water level in the tank, a submersible pump to send water to the fogging head, and ball valve to control the fogging output.

The Hanging Sump comes equipped with an on/off power switch, 20’ of water line, and a 15’ power cord with plug. Units hang by either a single U-bolt or a universal mounting bolt.


So far I'll need a 48,000 grain water softener, Axeon 300 gpd R/O, 80 gal. pressure tank, fogger. Done.  All my research regarding non salt water conditioner have their short comings.  Best choice is TAC or Template Assisted Crystalization water conditioner.

A 9,200 gal. water tank is about $10,000 locally installed and hoping it rains which it doesn't come summer.  A dome of high pressure will soon set up over central Texas and does not move out until Sept.

« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 06:01:16 PM by Mark in Texas »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #133 on: May 10, 2019, 08:04:22 PM »
Thats a nice fan and has no nozzles so it might not necesarely need RO water and should be easy to clean in case it does get jammed.I didnt like the the noize thogh but i think its caused by a diaphragm pump they use to fed water to the rotor ,not by the fan itself.https://youtu.be/KJAGUluWhOc As for that TAC softener ,i went on a site that sells them and they were comparing TAC with magnet softeners and i think its a scam just like the magnets water softeners.Somme people add magnets on theyr car reservoir to improove milleage but they are shallow people.I choose the snake oil filter magnet instead of a  polyphosphate filter for my home because polyphosphates could be bad for a reef aquarium and the
law here says i need to have a filter.For plants the polyphosphate filter alone might work better than even RO water wich has 30-40 tds( its not zero or distilled water ).

tve

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #134 on: May 10, 2019, 09:13:45 PM »
I don't think TAC is a scam. See https://watereuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Webinar-WateReuse-08-06.pdf for example. Since I've added a TAC filter to my house I've had fewer scaling problems with my instant hot water heater. I also see the difference in the rest of the plumbing and cooking. The magnetic "descaler" works as well, but is much less effective than TAC and it's not just a couple of magnets affixed to a pipe. Interesting stuff, actually.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #135 on: May 10, 2019, 09:52:57 PM »
I don't think TAC is a scam. See https://watereuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Webinar-WateReuse-08-06.pdf for example. Since I've added a TAC filter to my house I've had fewer scaling problems with my instant hot water heater. I also see the difference in the rest of the plumbing and cooking. The magnetic "descaler" works as well, but is much less effective than TAC and it's not just a couple of magnets affixed to a pipe. Interesting stuff, actually.
Thats interesting but the comparison with magnets its strange because they compare theyr product with a snake oil and that made me skeptical.And they show no picture with TAC vs polyphosphates wich are the #1 solution to hard water worldwide and also in nature ( phosphorus its mainly found as calcium phosphate).Here is a picture with my magnet water softener wich i call it a snake oil.Its a certifyed product sold in stores but i think they sell them as an alternative for people that dont want to have a filter so that they can trick the law .
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 09:59:48 PM by SeaWalnut »

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #136 on: May 10, 2019, 10:42:04 PM »
The RO water isnt to keep the nozzles from clogging.  A particulate filter takes care of that.  Its to remove the hardness from the water you are going to be blowing all over your special plants and greenhouse.  All that scale will end up on your plants and greenhouse walls etc.  Plants really do not like to be misted with hard water all day long. 
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #137 on: May 11, 2019, 10:58:08 AM »
Thats a nice fan and has no nozzles so it might not necesarely need RO water and should be easy to clean in case it does get jammed.

Brad's right, I don't want my trees to be dusted white with salts.  My TDS is 800 + ppm and hardness is 25 grains, bicarbonates.  Trust me, I've covered every angle of this for 3 years and seem stuck.

One solution to heat gain in greenhouses is choosing a film that has IR inhibitors in it.  Fairly new technology.  Fella who installed nano ceramic film on our new BMW front windows told me he uses the same, but clear, film (for vehicle front windshields) on greenhouse glass glazing.  Says it makes a huge difference.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 10:59:45 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #138 on: May 11, 2019, 11:05:39 AM »
I don't think TAC is a scam. See https://watereuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Webinar-WateReuse-08-06.pdf for example. Since I've added a TAC filter to my house I've had fewer scaling problems with my instant hot water heater. I also see the difference in the rest of the plumbing and cooking. The magnetic "descaler" works as well, but is much less effective than TAC and it's not just a couple of magnets affixed to a pipe. Interesting stuff, actually.

TAC is not a scam. I personally witnessed a nice restaurant that had foggers installed over head at an ourdoor eating patio.  Place was covered in plants too, no white dusting.  I contacted the owner who was nice enough to get me all the details on his TAC installation and the vendor.  TAC conditioned water is used for all his water needs including cleaning dishes, coffee/tea, etc.  Area has the same limestone based soils and water sources.

What brand do you have?  I've looked at quite a few. 

R/O vendor said even with a TAC installed as a prefilter the hardness is still there.  The membranes will tend to foul up prematurely even though scale is mitigated.  I really need 0 hardness which can only be accomplished with a salt based water softener.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #139 on: May 12, 2019, 10:51:09 AM »
Heres the roll up sides.  It rolls up 3ft or so.  Takes about 10 seconds to open up or close.  Can open both sides and the wind passes right through and keeps the HH cool.  The end walls are open for summer too.  The zig zag rope is there to hold the roll up wall from flapping in the wind.


Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2019, 10:51:21 AM »
Heres the roll up sides.  It rolls up 3ft or so.  Takes about 10 seconds to open up or close.  Can open both sides and the wind passes right through and keeps the HH cool.  The end walls are open for summer too.  The zig zag rope is there to hold the roll up wall from flapping in the wind.



"Very cool".  :D

Quite a few folks in Texas cover their hoop houses in vinyl come winter and substitute shade cloth for the vinyl come spring.

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #141 on: May 13, 2019, 11:04:07 AM »
I was very tempted to just remove the plastic and put up shade but its such a PITA.
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2019, 08:08:09 AM »
I was very tempted to just remove the plastic and put up shade but its such a PITA.

Yep.  Can't use it where I live - gusty prevailing winds and an occasion hail with the storms.

brian

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2019, 12:36:51 PM »
I have nearly all the bits now for the fogger setup.  Thanks for all the information, Spaugh.

I just got a TDS meter today.  My city tap water is 195ppm.  Water run through my wifes Brita pitcher is 182ppm, and costco bottled water is 18ppm.

I believe 200pm is the threshold for long term watering, so i should be okay there.  I assume 200 is way too high for continuous fogging though.  Im going to set it to only run at extreme temperatures and see how it goes.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2019, 05:18:03 PM »
195 ppm is a blessing.  I wouldn't hesitate to use it straight thru the foggers and how many months out of the year will you need cooling in PA?  I'd install foggers that are serviceable too.  Right now we're in an early heat wave with a heat index of 100F as I write.  I'm out the door to drench and cool down my trees/floor/walls with cool well water for the 3rd time today.  My old home town of Corpus Christi hit a heat index of 121F the other day.  What a frickin' hot box that place is. 

We laugh down here when the late news shows you NE folks sweating a few days with highs around 100F in August before your next front blows thru in a day or two. 

I have nearly all the bits now for the fogger setup.  Thanks for all the information, Spaugh.

I just got a TDS meter today.  My city tap water is 195ppm.  Water run through my wifes Brita pitcher is 182ppm, and costco bottled water is 18ppm.

I believe 200pm is the threshold for long term watering, so i should be okay there.  I assume 200 is way too high for continuous fogging though.  Im going to set it to only run at extreme temperatures and see how it goes.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2019, 06:56:20 PM »
I have nearly all the bits now for the fogger setup.  Thanks for all the information, Spaugh.

I just got a TDS meter today.  My city tap water is 195ppm.  Water run through my wifes Brita pitcher is 182ppm, and costco bottled water is 18ppm.

I believe 200pm is the threshold for long term watering, so i should be okay there.  I assume 200 is way too high for continuous fogging though.  Im going to set it to only run at extreme temperatures and see how it goes.
Id check the TDS meter wich i think its broked or decalibrated because bottled water 18 ppm  ;D.There is also the possibility that you measured the temperature by mistake,18 C ,instead of 18 ppm tds.In that case the tds meter its good.Low TDS water its bad for your health,thats why atletes and otther people that work phisical work ,are given carbonated water.The CO2 makes the water slightly accidic so that it helps dissolve more solids like calcium and magnesium.It probably has @ 700 ppm.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 07:18:33 PM by SeaWalnut »

spaugh

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #146 on: June 09, 2019, 07:11:10 PM »
Some of the bottled water is just RO water.  So its not surprising if its very low TDS. 

Your 200ppm is kind of marginal but will probably be ok to just use as often as you want.  You will get buildup on fans and vents after a while and get a good idea how the plants respond.  If you find that the pump makes too much mist and it cycles on and off(from a controller) then you should adjust the system to have less nozzles and more water going through the bypass circuit.  That water can be sent to a barrel and used for watering with.  Unless its super hot, your mist setup will most likely not need 10+ nozzles.  It may only need 4 or 5 to keep things cool. 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 07:13:59 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

SeaWalnut

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #147 on: June 09, 2019, 07:20:54 PM »
Even if you drink RO water ,its recomended to have a filter that adds TDS ( calcium,magnesium,etc) as the final stage,and should be replaced if the final TDS goes below 100.

brian

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #148 on: June 09, 2019, 07:42:03 PM »
I believe the meter is accurate.  I just retested and got 195 for my tap water and 21ppm for the costco water.  If you google for "costco water tds" there's a  youtube video here that comes up with 26ppm on their meter.  The costco water is "purified drinking water with minerals added for taste".

I'm going to try using it when greenhouse inside temp hits say 115F and see how often it runs.  This is common on sunny days with the exhaust fans running on low/med.   Last year I don't think I ever saw the inside temp go over 125F even on the hottest days which were just over 100F. 

I'm considering keeping small parrots in my greenhouse and I want to see if I can keep it cool enough for them.

brian

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Re: Hoop house
« Reply #149 on: June 29, 2019, 12:40:24 PM »
I just replicated Spaugh's setup for the most part.  I have my misting system set up now.  Thanks for all the information.





 

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