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Author Topic: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project  (Read 4224 times)

Ilya11

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2017, 10:46:17 AM »
Millet,
The seeds, are they also restricted?
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Millet

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2017, 11:02:46 AM »
Llya11, no I think seeds would be OK.  I have sent seeds of various citrus cultivars to Europe and Asia, and by the time they arrived 60 percent  were dead or damaged.   I assume that poncirus+ is as slow growing as regular poncirus, therefore how many years do you think it would take from germination to fruiting.?

mikkel

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2017, 11:46:23 AM »
seed import is forbidden by the EU since about 1 year.

starch

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2017, 12:00:24 PM »
Walt,

This is an ambitious and exciting project. Thank you for sharing it with us!

I have family in Middle Tennessee (Zone 7a) and they all love citrus. And years ago I used to ship them citrus that I grew on my trees. But now with the psyllid and the quarantine on citrus, I can't send them citrus from my yard in AZ anymore. But I would love for them to be able to grow some of their own citrus.

I have one family member in TN who is a little more enthusiastic about growing plants and I think he would be very interested in being part of your trial process.

- Mark

Ilya11

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »
Llya11, no I think seeds would be OK.  I have sent seeds of various citrus cultivars to Europe and Asia, and by the time they arrived 60 percent  were dead or damaged.   I assume that poncirus+ is as slow growing as regular poncirus, therefore how many years do you think it would take from germination to fruiting.?
Of course it depends on conditions, when grown in the winter under the lamps for two years and then planted outside I observe that most of the poncirus seedlings flower in 5-7 years.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2017, 12:39:36 PM »
There was some talk about using early maturing citrus. The earliest maturing mandarin I know of is the Xie Shan satsuma (which can easily be purchased in the USA).  Xie Shan can mature as early as mid-September

Mid September would be very good here.  Most would have to ripen inside even if they were winter-hardy.  I have assumed that early ripening genes would come from P. trifoliata as they ripen here.  But they don't ripen sweet.

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 12:44:33 PM »
Walt, I looked up Livingston Creek in NC: it's crossing hwy 74 just west of Delco in Columbus county, on the south coast of NC just one county east of Wilmington. I've driven through there several times this year. I'd love to look for swamp lemons over there, but since that's 4.5 hours from where I live, don't know when I'll be able to go out there. My husband's father grew up in Whiteville in Columbus county, and he tells me he used to season fish they caught from local rivers with a small wild citrus that grew there, but he says he didn't call it a lemon.

Thank you.  Any lead is useful.  I'd certainly help with gas money.  I don't know about you, but I wouldn't recognize P. trifoliata during the winter.  So there is time for planning.

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2017, 12:54:50 PM »
I think two new varieties Iwasaki and Nichinan are slightly earlier than Xie Shan.

Walt I can send you a cutting from my FD now if you think you can work with it but if not we can wait until later in spring.

Any chance we can get poncirus + into the US?

Thanks for the information about early ripening mandarins.  Ill be trying all three that have been recommended. 
About the FD cutting, my P. trifoliata that are big enough for me to graft are all outsice and dormant.  I do have 3 citranges that are inside and big enough to graft are just surviving due to not enough light.  I like to graft onto rapidly growing stocks so they heal fast, before the scion dries out.
I have grafted apples in late spring with dormant scions onto leafed out stocks.  I assume that would be best for citrus, right?

Citradia

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2017, 06:44:05 PM »
Walt, I do know what PT looks like in winter and some brightly colored fruits may still be in branches, so I'd like to try to find the trees you spoke of. I also intend to call some of Whiteville's nurseries to see if they may already have some of their local PT for sale. I'd drive 4 hours on a weekend to get my hands on a better quality hardy citrus. I need to wait until after the holidays though.

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2017, 02:25:24 PM »
I want everyone to know that, while i have read read about citrus from many sources, most of what I know I learned from the now gone citrus forum, whose name I don't remember.  But I do see many names here that I recognize, people who I highly respect, from that forum.  It good to have such experts taking this project seriously.

Tom

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2017, 10:10:01 PM »
I think the old forum was  citrusforumup.com  it is long gone but there are efforts being made to resurrect it or at least try to make the archives accessible. It was owned and operated by Laaz and he had several administrative assistants [including Millet who started this site] but he called them something else. Seems that nobody’s heard from Laaz lately.

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2017, 04:13:19 PM »
That's the one.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2018, 08:01:22 AM »
Millet,
but it should be possible to send seed from Europe, or not? The other way it was no problem. USDA sent me a lot of seeds years ago. Without charging anything very nice!

Millet

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 12:43:51 PM »
Zitrusgaertner, I'm not sure on European regulations, perhaps someone living in the EU can answer your question.  I know in the USA seeds can be sent anywhere.

Ilya11

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 01:09:34 PM »
I believe European regulations concern only plant material send to EU, not vice versa.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

mikkel

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 02:42:50 PM »
It is a mess with these regulations.
I owe an official paper saying I am allowed to import Citrus seeds. But USDA and NIAS are claiming EU regulations prohibit seed import.
At least I am ready to accept that foreign officials understand EU regulatzion better than german offcials do.
Both are referring to the same regulations :(

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2018, 08:31:36 AM »
Mikkel

There is an old proverb saying: He who asks a lot of people will loose his direction (auf Deutsch: Wer lang fragt, geht weit irr). Sending citrus seed to a private person will not bring you in jail. And deseases are not transferred via seed as far as I know.

mikkel

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2018, 05:02:20 PM »
I am not concerned about jail but I am interested in getting seeds. The hard fact is UCR and others refuse to send them because of this regulations :( 

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2018, 03:48:18 PM »
Mikkel, don't you have a friend in the US who could order and send on the seeds to you?

mikkel

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2018, 03:35:46 PM »
 ::) ich bin unschuldig... English = I am innocent
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 09:49:22 PM by Millet »

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2018, 04:40:44 PM »
Does citrus pollen store well and ship well?
I ask because I am impatient to get some crosses made and hybrid seeds started.  Breeding trees takes patience, and I'd be OK with that if I had no other options. 
But I know there are people here who have mature plants of some I've been growing on, and might make some pollinations if they had pollen.  and there may be people with mature plants who might donate pollen.  Yes?
When I started this thread, I was thinking in long term plans.  But since there are mature plants of non-disgusting P. trifoliata, and US 852, for example, such a cross might be made this spring and we'd be that much closer to having something edible and more hardy than now exists.
But first step is to see if it is possible.
I realize that P. trifoliata blooms earlier than citranges or citanderins, etc.  So it might not work making the cross in the direction I'd like, unless the P. trifoliata is much further north than the US 852.  Perhaps a  US 852 x citrange?
Anyone have information or ideas?

Ilya11

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2018, 03:56:11 AM »
Depending on weather conditions there is some overlap between poncirus and its hybrids  flowering. Otherwise, pollen can be dried and stored up to one year at -20C in containers with  a small bag of silica gel.
Last year I succeeded in getting citrumelo 5* x  Flying Dragon hybrid seedlings, but it was after several years of failures.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2018, 12:53:00 PM »
This is the first 3/4 P. trifoliata, 1/4 citrus I've heard of.  Any idea of how hardy it will be?  I know, or believe, that the citromelo, being a hybrid will be segregating, so there could be great variation in such hybrids.  I'm willing to go to 7/8 P. trifoliata, 1/8 citrus, but I hope I don't have to.

Walt

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2018, 12:56:09 PM »
Also 2 other question.
Do you know of other 3/4 P. t., 1/4 citrus?
Did you use a P.t. with their usual flavor or one of the mutants with better flavor?

Ilya11

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Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2018, 01:58:02 PM »
This is the first 3/4 P. trifoliata, 1/4 citrus I've heard of.  Any idea of how hardy it will be?  I know, or believe, that the citromelo, being a hybrid will be segregating, so there could be great variation in such hybrids.  I'm willing to go to 7/8 P. trifoliata, 1/8 citrus, but I hope I don't have to.
The seedlings currently  are growing under the lamps, the largest is ~20 cm high, they will go in ground in May. Citrumelo 5* is a chance seedling of Swingle citrumelo, most probably from self pollination, it is "nearly edible", more hardy than Swingle and it gives a fair amount of zygotic seedlings.   The hybrids I got now ( with FD) are indeed very heterogeneous , some are pretty strong but most are dwarfs.

Also 2 other question.
Do you know of other 3/4 P. t., 1/4 citrus?
Did you use a P.t. with their usual flavor or one of the mutants with better flavor?
B.Voss in his book on hardy citrus reproduces from "Citrus growing in Florida" book by L.K.Jackson  a scheme where a backcross of citrange by poncirus is named cicitrange, so most probably such hybrids were already made.
 I  have plans to use other strains of poncirus, but it seems it is more difficult than to cross 5* with regular citrus.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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