Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update  (Read 3185 times)

Mr. Clean

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
  • MangosByMail.com
    • US, FL, West Palm Beach, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:51:35 PM »
Many of us know that Turpentine is a common root stock for mangos in Florida.  However, I heard from a very credible source that due to the lack of sufficient Turpentine rootstock, some of the large nurseries are importing Turpentine-like mango seeds from other countries.  Basically, if a mango grafting nursery needs 100,000 seeds for grafting, there are not enough Turpentine mango seeds.  So the nurseries travel to a foreign country, find a mango grower that is growing a Turpentine like mango and buy the entire crop.  Then has the seeds stripped of flesh and lawfully imports the seeds with the proper permits.  The nursery uses these seeds as grafting rootstock.

I use the term "very credible source" because I didn't ask the person's permission to attribute their name to the information.
www.MangosByMail.com

110+ fruit trees/plants; 70+ mango trees; 12 jackfruit; 6 avocado; 3 persimmon; 2 longan; and a dog that keeps raccoons and squirrels away.

Capt Ram

  • 33461
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • Lake Worth, Fl
    • View Profile
    • Sailing-charters.org
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 01:09:51 PM »
Yes Mark- was interesting at the RFC  -One of the things that I learned from him was spraying minor elements this time of year is not much, if any good- ,because the trees do not absorb it in cool weather-- --ive been doing this for years and wasting time and money----the Palm Beach chapter of the Rare Fruit Council seems to always have great speakers and I learn a lot from being a new member there.--
Www.sailing-charters.org

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5632
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 07:16:41 PM »
Thanks for the information! I wonder if this other Turpentine rootstock will grow any better than the other Turpentine rootstock that the Florida Nurseries have been using? The Puerto Rican Turpentine rootstock that Leo Manuel uses on some of his trees are excellent growers and extremely heavy producers on that rootstock. Leo Manuel’s Todos Santos is on PR Turpentine rootstock and that tree is loaded with fruits and does not show any signs of disease although the grafted variety(Todos Santos) has a lot to do with it.

Simon

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5632
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 07:18:16 PM »
Here is some more information on Mango rootstocks in case anyone is interested.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

Simon

Squam256

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2114
  • Mangos and budwood for sale
    • USA, West Palm Beach, FL, 33405, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • https://www.facebook.com/TropicalAcresFarms
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 09:53:01 PM »
Thanks for the information! I wonder if this other Turpentine rootstock will grow any better than the other Turpentine rootstock that the Florida Nurseries have been using? The Puerto Rican Turpentine rootstock that Leo Manuel uses on some of his trees are excellent growers and extremely heavy producers on that rootstock. Leo Manuel’s Todos Santos is on PR Turpentine rootstock and that tree is loaded with fruits and does not show any signs of disease although the grafted variety(Todos Santos) has a lot to do with it.

Simon

The overwhelming majority of mangos that come out of Florida are Zill nursery trees grafted to turpentine from Costa Rica. Been that way for a long time. So this Costa Rican turpentine evidently struggles in California.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 09:55:06 PM by Squam256 »

pineislander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
    • Bokeelia, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 09:57:57 PM »
Hey I was wondering about that recently. In Florida we get a summer crop of turpentine but the larger growers must need root stock year round. It makes sense they might go abroad to get them.

arc310

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • arcadia/glendora, ca 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2018, 11:34:52 PM »
Hey I was wondering about that recently. In Florida we get a summer crop of turpentine but the larger growers must need root stock year round. It makes sense they might go abroad to get them.

so if we order any type of mango from florida, it's most likely turpentine then?

Capt Ram

  • 33461
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • Lake Worth, Fl
    • View Profile
    • Sailing-charters.org
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 07:20:16 AM »
Yes correct
Www.sailing-charters.org

zands

  • wango_tango_mango_zango
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4100
    • Zone 10b, Florida, USA, 33321
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 12:03:59 PM »
Thanks for the information! I wonder if this other Turpentine rootstock will grow any better than the other Turpentine rootstock that the Florida Nurseries have been using? The Puerto Rican Turpentine rootstock that Leo Manuel uses on some of his trees are excellent growers and extremely heavy producers on that rootstock. Leo Manuel’s Todos Santos is on PR Turpentine rootstock and that tree is loaded with fruits and does not show any signs of disease although the grafted variety(Todos Santos) has a lot to do with it.

Simon

Puerto Rico is an island of volcanic origin thus many clay soils and some are heavy clay soils/ You can ask Leon Manuel about this.
South Florida has a light sandy soil that has been washed on top of ancient calcium formations made by sea creatures

So the turpentine rootstock from Florida-Costa Rica-Zills can vary greatly from Leon Manuel's from Puerto Rico.  If you can ask Zill and Leon directly you will find more truth for California mango growing.

Me saying that mango genius Leon is using turpentine seeds that are used to burrowing into heavy clay soils. In Miami the traditional reddish clay tile roofs were made from tiles manufactured in (volcanic) Cuba and Puerto Rico. No clay in South Florida except a bit in The Redlands

Anyone can call anything turpentine root stock, it is an anarchy. My guess is Leon is using the word loosely and generically. The key is that his rootstock seeds work in California heavy clay soils/
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 12:31:30 PM by zands »

Guanabanus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2542
  • SE Palm Beach County, East of I-95, Elevation 18'
    • USA, Florida, Boynton Beach, 33435, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2018, 10:12:55 PM »
Zands is right about the name anarchy.

A friend in Homestead did an experiment with good-sized seed batches, grown in professional-nursery conditions, of about a dozen "turpentine" types, sourced from experiment stations, parks, and private properties in southeastern Florida, including the Keys.  These batches ranged from fungus-ridden-and-not-a-single-plant-fit-to-graft-onto, to excellent.  The leaves of some batches bore no resemblence to other batches.
Har

Guanabanus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2542
  • SE Palm Beach County, East of I-95, Elevation 18'
    • USA, Florida, Boynton Beach, 33435, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2018, 10:16:10 PM »
Seed batches from some common named varieties can look even healthier than good Turpentines, and can produce just as standard-looking stand of plants.
Har

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5632
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2018, 11:27:38 PM »
Thanks for the information! I wonder if this other Turpentine rootstock will grow any better than the other Turpentine rootstock that the Florida Nurseries have been using? The Puerto Rican Turpentine rootstock that Leo Manuel uses on some of his trees are excellent growers and extremely heavy producers on that rootstock. Leo Manuel’s Todos Santos is on PR Turpentine rootstock and that tree is loaded with fruits and does not show any signs of disease although the grafted variety(Todos Santos) has a lot to do with it.

Simon


The overwhelming majority of mangos that come out of Florida are Zill nursery trees grafted to turpentine from Costa Rica. Been that way for a long time. So this Costa Rican turpentine evidently struggles in California.


Thanks for the clarification Squam256, it’s good to know where the source is coming from.

Zands and Har, I agree. The term Turpentine is used very loosely and I brought up the point about Leo having success with the PR Turpentine rootstock in order to inform readers that not all Turpentine rootstocks perform poorly here in SoCal.

Har, I also agree with you that random Mango seedlings can perform excellent in any given area. The issue will be with the consistency of the results. In my “Growing Mango trees in Southern California” thread http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0. I have been recommending that people plant a variety of different types of Mangos directly seeded into the ground in the hopes that any one of those seedlings may perform better than another seedling in a particular yard.

By planting various Monoembryonic and Polyembryonic varieties within a given yard, you are more likely to find one that performs better at that particular location. A CRFG Mango Fruit facts suggested that Polyembryonic varieties may be more resistant to Anthracnose and Monoembryonic varieties may be more resistant to Powdery Mildew. I know this is a very very broad generalization but it may have some truth to it.

I hope we will get better rootstocks that are highly productive and more disease resistant in the near future. Hopefully some of the hybrid work that Dr Ledesma is doing now will give us a new and better rootstock in the near future.

Simon

zands

  • wango_tango_mango_zango
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4100
    • Zone 10b, Florida, USA, 33321
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 07:03:29 PM »
By planting various Monoembryonic and Polyembryonic varieties within a given yard, you are more likely to find one that performs better at that particular location. A CRFG Mango Fruit facts suggested that Polyembryonic varieties may be more resistant to Anthracnose and Monoembryonic varieties may be more resistant to Powdery Mildew. I know this is a very very broad generalization but it may have some truth to it.

Simon

I read similar years ago so planted poly mango trees to diversify. I had only mono-embryonic trees before that. But This may not apply so much to your dry climate.

raimeiken

  • Zone: 9b
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 09:12:37 PM »
The overwhelming majority of mangos that come out of Florida are Zill nursery trees grafted to turpentine from Costa Rica. Been that way for a long time. So this Costa Rican turpentine evidently struggles in California.

struggles here in AZ too. Others that are successful basically dig giant holes in ground and heavily amend the soil. Makes it so like having a giant pot in ground.

zands

  • wango_tango_mango_zango
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4100
    • Zone 10b, Florida, USA, 33321
    • View Profile
Re: Mango Turpentine Rootstock Update
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 07:22:17 AM »
The overwhelming majority of mangos that come out of Florida are Zill nursery trees grafted to turpentine from Costa Rica. Been that way for a long time. So this Costa Rican turpentine evidently struggles in California.

struggles here in AZ too. Others that are successful basically dig giant holes in ground and heavily amend the soil. Makes it so like having a giant pot in ground.

It seems like turp root stock via Zill grafting needs this babying in heavy clay soils of California..      FWIW....In Florida sandy soils I always dug out my soil and kept the topsoil. Dug nice and deep (two and three feet) and threw in cheap Home Depot topsoil that was black. I tossed the sub soil and threw the top soil into the planting hole. Tossed the sub soil  into the trash barrel. To be put into the town dump.

Your amending into a giant pot in the ground sounds good. This enables the mango tree to achieve liftoff     Then it has the strength to deal w your hostile soils.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 07:33:34 AM by zands »

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers