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Author Topic: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida. Also, EBAY MANGO FRAUD EXPOSED!  (Read 3706 times)

Squam256

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Recently I met a tree buying customer named Golam who had travelled across India trying different Mangos. He informed me that the Himsagar in Florida was not the same as the Himsagar in India, where it is extremely popular.

I had tried the Florida “Himsagar” before, and found it to be an excellent fruit. But Golam described Himsagar as a large round shaped fruit. The supposed imposter grafted in Florida was an oblong/enlongated mango.

Upon examining these photos from India referencing Himsagar online and comparing them to display photos from the various Mango events in south Florida, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Florida Himsagar contained in the collections of the USDA and Fairchild is indeed a mislabeled variety.




Florida:


Florida:



India:


India:


India:


India:


India:


Florida again:

« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 02:49:00 PM by Squam256 »

Cookie Monster

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 11:47:49 AM »
ha, that's curious. Thanks for the info. I think (imposter?) Himsagar has made it to california as well.
Jeff  :-)

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 12:20:26 PM »
The USDA accession (MIA 17568) states that the assigned name is unverified.
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Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 12:29:10 PM »
The USDA accession (MIA 17568) states that the assigned name is unverified.

That tag also appears on a bunch of their other accessions including a number of well established Florida varieties.

The pdf info does state that it was collected in Pakistan in 1960. I don’t believe Himsagar is common there.

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 12:34:25 PM »
It looks like Him Sagar is from the Eastern side of India, and not as far north as Pakistan.  But Pakistan was still divided in '61 so it might have been collected in East Pakistan (Bangladesh). 

I just love a good mystery :-)
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 12:46:43 PM »
It looks like Him Sagar is from the Eastern side of India, and not as far north as Pakistan.  But Pakistan was still divided in '61 so it might have been collected in East Pakistan (Bangladesh). 

I just love a good mystery :-)

Initially I thought it might be from pre-Bangladesh East Pakistan But according to the accession info it was sent from Lahore. I bet it’s some random Pakistani mango.

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 12:59:23 PM »
It is really strange.  I think you are correct, tho.  The USA and Indian fruits do look completely different.  Nonetheless, I will still grow an imposter Him Sagar at some point, if I can find space for it :-)  I hear it's an excellent fruit.
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

mangokothiyan

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 01:41:24 PM »
Yes, the fruit from India and what we have here do look totally different. Some day, we will know what our "Himsagar" actually is.   

The original fruit is from West Bengal in India but it is not sold much at all in any other part of the country. According to a friend of mine from Kolkota, it is the favorite mango for most people in the state. They love it so much that people in other states do not get to taste it.


I have a Himsagar tree and have topworked it to two of my trees (Keitt and NDM #4). I got fruits off the topworked portion of my Keitt last year. Really good, but not in the top tier, at least for me. It is, however, very productive. Zills describes it as "very productive." 

KarenRei

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 09:12:44 PM »
Affordable, simple genetic tests can't come quickly enough...  ;)
Já, ég er ađ rćkta suđrćnar plöntur á Íslandi. Nei, ég er ekki klikkuđ. Jćja, kannski...

knlim000

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 01:20:12 AM »
i got a florida himsagar.  Shall I rename it hersagar?

wslau

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2018, 01:19:39 AM »
From what I gather from friends, a similar mystery exists for Florida's Son Pari and Langra Benarsi too.
Warren

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 08:20:10 AM »
From what I gather from friends, a similar mystery exists for Florida's Son Pari and Langra Benarsi too.

Langra Benarasi for sure. However Sonpari appears to be the right one from photos from India.

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 10:36:05 AM »
Very interesting. 

Are both of these naming issues a result of the same original sourcing?  I'm assuming that both of these varieties were sourced from the USDA's or Fairchild's collections......
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Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 11:17:08 AM »
Very interesting. 

Are both of these naming issues a result of the same original sourcing?  I'm assuming that both of these varieties were sourced from the USDA's or Fairchild's collections......

I don’t know what Langra Benarasi really is but it was likely brought in by the USDA (as was Himsagar).

Sonpari, as I mentioned above, appears to be the real thing. I believe that was introduced to Florida by Gary Zill

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 12:45:57 PM »
How interesting.  I have Langra which I'm fairly confident that it's not sourced from the USDA collection.  But it will be interesting to compare pics once it's big enough to fruit.
 Hopefully it'll be tasty....whatever it is.
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 12:59:47 PM »
How interesting.  I have Langra which I'm fairly confident that it's not sourced from the USDA collection.  But it will be interesting to compare pics once it's big enough to fruit.
 Hopefully it'll be tasty....whatever it is.

Where did you obtain your Langra? I ask because there’s a guy on eBay selling fakes

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2018, 01:16:07 PM »
I did purchase it on eBay about a year ago.  Now I'm worried.  Do you have a specific vendor name?
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 01:35:44 PM »
I did purchase it on eBay about a year ago.  Now I'm worried.  Do you have a specific vendor name?

GuavaKing I believe . Ormond Beach. Selling 1 gallon trees from Zill as rare Indian varieties.

Check out what fell out of our “Langra” pot we got from him:




Not coincidentally the leaves looked like NDM #4 as well. I suspect the “Anwar Rataul “ we were sent is actually a Julie. Also a Banganpalli we got through him is clearly not a Banganapalli because it lacks the flat pointed leaves and thin stem.

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 01:57:47 PM »
That's bad news.   I just emailed you.  Please call me when you get the chance.
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

gozp

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2018, 01:08:29 AM »
There may be many faked name varieties from florida such as these or possible mislabelling.

Here is a comparison.






Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2018, 09:50:53 AM »
That fake Kesar might be a Pickering

behlgarden

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2018, 10:08:42 AM »
From what I gather from friends, a similar mystery exists for Florida's Son Pari and Langra Benarsi too.

Langra Benarasi for sure. However Sonpari appears to be the right one from photos from India.

My source who is at the heart of Sonpari Growing region, a good friend of mine who has mango orchards confirmed looking at fruit picture and pictures of Florida sonpari leaves to be vastly different than what he grows in India in Gujrat. He will send us closeup pics of fruit and leaves in Summer for us to see. what he described was that majority of leaves tend to bend in the middle of vein.

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 10:30:31 AM »
From what I gather from friends, a similar mystery exists for Florida's Son Pari and Langra Benarsi too.

Langra Benarasi for sure. However Sonpari appears to be the right one from photos from India.

My source who is at the heart of Sonpari Growing region, a good friend of mine who has mango orchards confirmed looking at fruit picture and pictures of Florida sonpari leaves to be vastly different than what he grows in India in Gujrat. He will send us closeup pics of fruit and leaves in Summer for us to see. what he described was that majority of leaves tend to bend in the middle of vein.
Hi Behlgarden,

Any chance that your friend can provide leaf close-ups of other Indian and Pakistani varieties also?  I would be very interested in seeing leaf detail of banganpalle, amrapali, anwar ratol, and the "arka" hybrids, as well as sindu and ratna :-)  I know that's a super-tall "pie-in-the-sky" kinda request :-)
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

behlgarden

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2018, 10:52:59 AM »
Chaunsa, yes, Anwar Ratol no because Anwar Ratol is from Pakistan not grown in India, India has Ratol that most dont grow

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2018, 11:03:40 AM »
Thanks so much.  Any detail that he can send will be most appreciated
Kittens, anyone?  Free kittens to good homes!!!!  I have 3 little furballs that need a place to live :-)

 

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