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Author Topic: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida. Also, EBAY MANGO FRAUD EXPOSED!  (Read 4954 times)

jbaqai

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This is big
Can you pls share the details , how you come to this conclusion

I need this information to start my refund from Ebay or PayPal

pineislander

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This is big
Can you pls share the details , how you come to this conclusion

I need this information to start my refund from Ebay or PayPal
Yes, it would be good to do a complete write up of the facts of the matter. This thread runs 4 pages and someone arriving here is likely to become very confused.
Standard question which need to be explained are who, what, where, how, and why, with timeline.

One thing I see when looking at the seller's feedback if that the claimed indian variety mangos have been sold for over a year.
https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&userid=guavaking&iid=112709675976&de=off&items=25&interval=0&searchInterval=30&mPg=16&keyword=112709675976&page=5
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 07:29:01 PM by pineislander »

Squam256

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This is big
Can you pls share the details , how you come to this conclusion

I need this information to start my refund from Ebay or PayPal

Send me your email address

DuncanYoung

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I have sent the Fraudster a letter requesting a full refund.  Legal
Action will be taken if he doesn't oblige.  He will be reported to eBay, PayPal and the United States Postal Service for mail fraud if a prompt refund isn't received. 

Squam256

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So here’s the recap:

Last month I was told someone was selling grafted trees of several rare Indian and Pakistani mangos on eBay . Upon looking I found a seller named “GuavaKing” listing grafted trees of Langra, Anwar Ratol, Chausa, and Banganpalli. These varieties are not grafted by ANY of the major mango-producing nurseries in the United States, making them fairly highly sought after.

I inquired to the seller asking him where he obtained these varieties, but didn’t get a response. My friend Jack (DuncanYoung) did get a response from the seller who claimed to have the trees in his yard, and ordered several.

He received the trees in the mail and I was immediately suspicious about 2 things: the Banganapalli, a variety I’ve had exposure to and whose foliage I was very familiar with, was not a Banganpalli. DuncanYoung requested a photo of the man’s Banganapalli. He provided a photo of a small tree that clearly was not Banganpalli based on the foliage. Banganpalli produces long, flat , pointed leaves and has extremely thin stems. The tree in the photo had short, stout curled or wavy leaves, and regular thick stems.

The second red flag was that the trees (in 1 gallon pots) were not the cleft or veneer grafts you would see from an amateur, but “T” buds that only 2 nurseries in Florida know how to do with mango. And only one of those wholesells them as 1 gallons: Zill High Performance Plants.

I then observed that one of the small trees Labelled “Anwar Ratal” appeared to be a Julie mango. Julie has distinctive leaves, and tends to flower as a 1 gallon size tree. Coincidentally, this tree was also flowering and had inflorescence resembling Julie too.

Later while stepping these 1 gallon trees up to 3 gallon, a small yellow tag dropped out of one of the pots of the “Langra” tree: the tag, pictured in the thread, reads “NDM #4” (Nam Doc Mai #4). The foliage on this tree appeared to be that of NDM, and the sap smell was identical too. I immediately recognized this as a small tag used by Zill High Performance Plants to label their young grafted trees. I knew then the guy was obtaining the trees from Zill, and selling them under different names, knowing full well he could get high prices for 1 gallon trees under these false names.



DuncanYoung then emailed GuavaKing asking about the tag. He responded claiming no knowledge of it and claimed that he was obtaining his pots from a local garden center. I can supply email proof of this. He evidently also fed this lie to other buyers.

Forum member Scott then informed me last week that he had purchased 12 trees from GuavaKing. He also knew his real name. This was different than the name that he had shipped the trees under: , but both names were associated with the same companies.

As final confirmation of this fraud, I went into Zill and was able to ascertain that this man had indeed purchased in 2017 50 Alphonso, 50 Nam Doc Mai, 50 Julie, and 50 Himsagar, all as 1 gallon trees. I suspect he also purchased trees in 2016 under a different name, but did not search for additional invoices. It was implied he may have purchased Lancetilla as well.

This person is a disgusting scam artist, a thief and a liar. What he is doing is completely illegal, and he should be exposed for it.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:38:32 PM by murahilin »

jbaqai

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Really appreciate your due diligence here

This post needed to permanent post for sometime on this forum , to maker sure that rest of forum read it 

Hopefully from now on, no one will be deceived by him

I filled a complained on PayPal , will let you know of any outcome

knlim000

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Does police get involve with this type of fraud?  He should be locked up in jail for deceiving people and stealing money from them.  Those trees are not cheap!!!

So here’s the recap:

Last month I was told someone was selling grafted trees of several rare Indian and Pakistani mangos on eBay . Upon looking I found a seller named “GuavaKing” listing grafted trees of Langra, Anwar Ratol, Chausa, and Banganpalli. These varieties are not grafted by ANY of the major mango-producing nurseries in the United States, making them fairly highly sought after.

I inquired to the seller asking him where he obtained these varieties, but didn’t get a response. My friend Jack (DuncanYoung) did get a response from the seller who claimed to have the trees in his yard, and ordered several.

He received the trees in the mail and I was immediately suspicious about 2 things: the Banganapalli, a variety I’ve had exposure to and whose foliage I was very familiar with, was not a Banganpalli. DuncanYoung requested a photo of the man’s Banganapalli. He provided a photo of a small tree that clearly was not Banganpalli based on the foliage. Banganpalli produces long, flat , pointed leaves and has extremely thin stems. The tree in the photo had short, stout curled or wavy leaves, and regular thick stems.

The second red flag was that the trees (in 1 gallon pots) were not the cleft or veneer grafts you would see from an amateur, but “T” buds that only 2 nurseries in Florida know how to do with mango. And only one of those wholesells them as 1 gallons: Zill High Performance Plants.

I then observed that one of the small trees Labelled “Anwar Ratal” appeared to be a Julie mango. Julie has distinctive leaves, and tends to flower as a 1 gallon size tree. Coincidentally, this tree was also flowering and had inflorescence resembling Julie too.

Later while stepping these 1 gallon trees up to 3 gallon, a small yellow tag dropped out of one of the pots of the “Langra” tree: the tag, pictured in the thread, reads “NDM #4” (Nam Doc Mai #4). The foliage on this tree appeared to be that of NDM, and the sap smell was identical too. I immediately recognized this as a small tag used by Zill High Performance Plants to label their young grafted trees. I knew then the guy was obtaining the trees from Zill, and selling them under different names, knowing full well he could get high prices for 1 gallon trees under these false names.



DuncanYoung then emailed GuavaKing asking about the tag. He responded claiming no knowledge of it and claimed that he was obtaining his pots from a local garden center. I can supply email proof of this. He evidently also fed this lie to other buyers.

Forum member Scott then informed me last week that he had purchased 12 trees from GuavaKing. He also knew his real name: Babar Majeed. This was different than the name that he had shipped the trees under but both names were associated with the same companies.

As final confirmation of this fraud, I went into Zill and was able to ascertain that this man had indeed purchased in 2017 50 Alphonso, 50 Nam Doc Mai, 50 Julie, and 50 Himsagar, all as 1 gallon trees. I suspect he also purchased trees in 2016 under a different name, but did not search for additional invoices. It was implied he may have purchased Lancetilla as well.

This person is a disgusting scam artist, a thief and a liar. What he is doing is completely illegal, and he should be exposed for it.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:35:48 PM by murahilin »

JF

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Great detective work Squam. We bought anwar and chausan from this person last year and the unique T bud grafts caught my attention. I told my friend whoever grafted these trees must have worked for Zill. I was assure this guy was legit. According to your research I have a Julie and Alfonso or a  Himsagar which I have no interest in growing.

Squam256

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Really appreciate your due diligence here

This post needed to permanent post for sometime on this forum , to maker sure that rest of forum read it 

Hopefully from now on, no one will be deceived by him

I filled a complained on PayPal , will let you know of any outcome

Yes there should be a separate post and one in the buy/sell section as well. I’ll discuss with Murahilin about how best to handle it since the eBay fraud discussion is clearly distinct from the general Himsagar issue and Sonpari question.

As far as the research, it’s no problem. After all We got scammed too.

And I’d like to say that Gary Zill and the folks at Zill HP Plants showed great integrity in assisting at coming to the bottom of this. They could have done nothing in the interest of continuing to sell trees to this guy, but were honest and upfront and actually pretty outraged that anyone would do this. We’re really blessed to have them in this industry.

OCchris1

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I would like to thank DuncanYoung and Squam 256 for their tenacity in this caper. I have had my index finger on the "Buy" button for this seller for quite a while. Good thing I am highly indecisive/highly skeptical! Thank you for your effort and hard work- saved me a pile of cash! Take care, Chris
-Chris

EJO8

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Squam that is some legendary detective work. Thanks for putting all that work into exposing this ebay seller, I know I have thought from buying him in the past.

Eric

pineislander

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Forum member Scott then informed me last week that he had purchased 12 trees from GuavaKing. He also knew his real name: Babar Majeed. This was different than the name that he had shipped the trees under: , but both names were associated with the same companies.


Adila is a female first name.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:38:51 PM by murahilin »

behlgarden

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its a shame that he did that. oh well, keep us posted on refunds etc. I will topwork mine, Glad i put both in same hole.

johnb51

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A crook and a total A-hole!  Thanks for exposing him.
John

knlim000

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lesson learned. never buy from eBay or amazon. There are lots of crooks hidden behind eBay and amazon.

Bush2Beach

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Thank You Squam! F the Scammers. Please post this Loser's contact info if possible.

JF

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The Zill family is a pillar in the mango community. I hope we can resolve the sonpari mystery when behl get's more pix from his contacts in India.

PltdWorld

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Why does this ebay seller only have ONE (1) negative feedback in the last 12 months?  Leaving negative feedback will also help others avoid the same debacle.




skhan

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Why does this ebay seller only have ONE (1) negative feedback in the last 12 months?  Leaving negative feedback will also help others avoid the same debacle.




I think it would be hard for the average buyer to know the minute differences between the varieties.
I definitely wouldn't.
One probably won't get a fruit for a few years after and he may re-open his business under a different name by then.
Khan's Edible Oasis
Yard as of Jan 2018

Squam256

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Why does this ebay seller only have ONE (1) negative feedback in the last 12 months?  Leaving negative feedback will also help others avoid the same debacle.




I think it would be hard for the average buyer to know the minute differences between the varieties.
I definitely wouldn't.
One probably won't get a fruit for a few years after and he may re-open his business under a different name by then.

Yup.

Squam256

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Thank You Squam! F the Scammers. Please post this Loser's contact info if possible.

Phone number on his ads: 810-348-8292

I called him other day, he was quite defiant. Initially claimed he had all his trees grafted in Ormond Beach, even though I have an invoice proving otherwise. He then got angry and dropped a lot of F bombs.

He’s changed his story several times with different people apparently.

jbaqai

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Thank You Squam! F the Scammers. Please post this Loser's contact info if possible.

Phone number on his ads: 810-348-8292

I called him other day, he was quite defiant. Initially claimed he had all his trees grafted in Ormond Beach, even though I have an invoice proving otherwise. He then got angry and dropped a lot of F bombs.

He’s changed his story several times with different people apparently.

F words.
red flag right there , any genuine business person will never use them with customers 

DeeMango

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2018, 05:50:24 PM »
Lives in a gated community, can't get in.


So I guess crime does pay.  >:(
Dee (I can haz a) Mango

knlim000

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can't get in and can't get out I hope.

 

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