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Author Topic: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?  (Read 1473 times)

BonsaiBeast

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Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« on: February 23, 2018, 03:38:27 PM »
I plan on putting 4 or 5 varieties of mandarin very close to each other. These would include seedless Kishu, golden nugget, and satsuma.

My question is: These individual mandarin varieties are normally seedless. But if I group them together in my yard and allow them to cross pollinate, will the fruits become seedy?

mrtexas

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 07:41:15 PM »
no

wslau

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 01:51:41 AM »
If your mandarin trees are cross pollinated (by bees) by a neighboring orange or lemon tree, yours may develop seeds.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-lz1f07produce18226-why-are-there-seeds-my-seedless-2009jan07-story,amp.html
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 02:04:36 AM by wslau »
Warren

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 12:15:23 PM »
I've read that in Spain there is a law against putting bee hives within two miles of a mandarin field.

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 04:46:20 PM »
If I were to plant only mandarin trees in my yard, would that fix the issue of seediness? Or will mandarins cross pollinating between each other cause seeds?

wslau

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 07:22:33 PM »
If I were to plant only mandarin trees in my yard, would that fix the issue of seediness? Or will mandarins cross pollinating between each other cause seeds?

1.  No, planting only mandarins in your yard will not guarantee seedless on some varieties. Any nearby citrus pollinator (neighboring yard) can be a problem for some varieties.  In fact, certain mandarins placed next to each other could result in seedy fruits
http://www.westernfarmpress.com/pollination-evaluated-mandarin-compatibility-and-seediness-studied
The article infers that gold nugget will always be seedless.

2.  Mandarins do not need to be pollinated to produce fruit, but can be, which can be a problem for some varieties.
3.  If some mandarins varieties are pollinated, it may result in fruits with seeds.

Correction: Gold nugget will always be seedless.
I'll trust MrTexas about kishu and satsuma always being seedless.
But you have to me careful about the 4th or 5th variety you put in.
Probably not a good idea to put in clementine.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 12:05:16 AM by wslau »
Warren

mrtexas

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2018, 08:01:56 PM »
" seedless Kishu, golden nugget, and satsuma. "

The answer is no, these are always seedless.  However some seedy mandarins like clementine
can be seedless if planted in a large block with no other citrus nearby.

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2018, 04:23:32 PM »
Currently i have planted together, owari satsuma mandarin, cara cara navel orange, rio red grapefruit, moro blood orange, and valencia orange.

If I want to have seedless mandarins, which of the above varieties do I need to replace with seedless kishu, golden nugget, etc?

mrtexas

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2018, 09:27:43 PM »
Only ones to have a few seeds are moro and valencia. Some valencias are seedless like midnight.

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2018, 09:30:06 PM »
Only ones to have a few seeds are moro and valencia. Some valencias are seedless like midnight.

I think you misinterpreted my question. I mean:

Given the list of citrus I planted in my yard, which if any will cause my satsuma mandarin to become seedy (via cross pollination)?

wslau

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2018, 10:15:23 PM »
From what I understand now and the trail of posts and articles....I think you are okay as is and do NOT have to make any citrus/mandarin tree changes to achieve seedless satsuma, kishu, and gold nuggets mandarins....those 3 varieties will always be seedless no matter the external conditions.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 10:16:58 PM by wslau »
Warren

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 03:08:28 PM »
From what I understand now and the trail of posts and articles....I think you are okay as is and do NOT have to make any citrus/mandarin tree changes to achieve seedless satsuma, kishu, and gold nuggets mandarins....those 3 varieties will always be seedless no matter the external conditions.

Even the Valencia orange? I swear that one should be affecting the mandarins...

fyliu

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2018, 03:25:26 PM »
There are different conditions that produce seedless fruit:
1. Tree can set fruit without pollination, cross pollination will produce seeds, no other compatible variety is present to pollinate.
2. Tree can set fruit without pollination, other varieties present but the tree won't accept foreign pollen.
 a. Flower has a genetic defect where the pollen won't reach the ovules.
 b. Flower has a genetic defect and fails to recognize compatible pollen, rejects everything.
 c. Other causes I don't know.
3. Other combinations I don't know.

#2a is the condition I think seedless kishu, gold nugget, etc., exhibit.
Your concern has always been on achieving #1, I think.

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 03:47:16 PM »
There are different conditions that produce seedless fruit:
1. Tree can set fruit without pollination, cross pollination will produce seeds, no other compatible variety is present to pollinate.
2. Tree can set fruit without pollination, other varieties present but the tree won't accept foreign pollen.
 a. Flower has a genetic defect where the pollen won't reach the ovules.
 b. Flower has a genetic defect and fails to recognize compatible pollen, rejects everything.
 c. Other causes I don't know.
3. Other combinations I don't know.

#2a is the condition I think seedless kishu, gold nugget, etc., exhibit.
Your concern has always been on achieving #1, I think.

this is very helpful!

Do you know if the owari satsuma mandarin falls under 1 or 2?

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 04:28:52 PM »
I found an amazing resource for anyone seeking answers to mandarin seeds.

http://ceventura.ucanr.edu/newsletters/Volume_5,_no_1_--_Jan-March_200729903.pdf

wslau

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Re: Does a seedless fruit become seedy when it is cross pollinated?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2018, 09:18:25 PM »
I found an amazing resource for anyone seeking answers to mandarin seeds.

http://ceventura.ucanr.edu/newsletters/Volume_5,_no_1_--_Jan-March_200729903.pdf


Excellent article.  I believe all your questions have been answered.  I learned a lot more after reading this.
Thanks for sharing.
Warren

 

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