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Author Topic: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges  (Read 2470 times)

simon_grow

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Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« on: March 23, 2018, 11:43:51 PM »
I would like to know a hat everyone is getting for their Brix readings of the various citrus you are growing. It would be great if you can provide the variety name and what month you harvested. Iíd would be great if you can provide any additional info such as flavor descriptions or anything else you feel is relevant. Thanks,

Gold Nugget, March, 14% Brix
Tango, March, 16% Brix

Even though the Tango has higher Brix, it tasted much more tart than the Gd Nugget because of the sugar acid ratio. My pH meters membrane dried out so I canít get an acidity reading but Iím sure the Tango has a lot more acid than the Gold Nugget.

On a side note, I like to cure my Tango and/or any other citrus that tastes a bit too tart for me by allowing them to cure at room temperature for about 2-3 weeks. The acidity level seems to drop off which brings out the sweetness of the fruit.

Simon


Vlad

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2018, 12:00:11 AM »
Simon, don't they dry out after 2-3 weeks?

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2018, 12:06:27 AM »
The skin dries out a bit but the inside is still juicy. I believe they do this with Dekopons. The skin would look much nicer if I waxed the fruit after harvest but Iím too lazy. Hereís a picture of some fruit harvested on 03/11/18


Simon

fyliu

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2018, 12:38:53 AM »
I cure some of my citrus too. The dekopon Sumo I get from the markets are still too tart the few times I've had them. Others keep saying they're sweet, so I'm thinking they can stand the acidity. Even the ones that felt cured were too tart. Then I ate a miracle fruit and discovered they were overdone and already started rotting, but still tart for me.

fyliu

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2018, 12:41:10 AM »
Simon, where do you get the juice to do the brix? I mean, is there a standard way like take it from the stem end or flower end or middle of the segments?

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2018, 10:34:15 AM »
Hey Fang, I donít have a standard way of taking the Brix readings. Next time I take a reading, Iíll try taking a reading from the stem end and the button end to see if thereís a difference. Iím looking for the highest Brix so I would guess that the button end will have higher Brix if thereís a difference at all since sugars settle downward as in the case with pineapples.

Simon

Millet

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2018, 11:24:09 AM »
Fruit picked from the south side of the tree will have the highest brix count.  Fruit growing on the external portions of the tree have higher brix then fruit growing in the internal areas of the tree.  I have an in ground Dekopon but don't have the equipment to test for brix.  There is a link on the Internet showing a Japanese grower storing his Dekopon fruit in crates inside a shed.  I don't remember the length of time the fruit are stores to lower the acid content.  Also the Japanese wrap the fruit in white tissue paper while storing, further some growers wrap their fruit while still on the tree.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 03:14:50 PM by Millet »

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 09:55:52 AM »
Thanks for the info Millet!

I took one segment of a Gold Nugget and took a reading from the stem end of the segment and the Brix reading was 14%, I then took another reading from the same segment but from the bottom end and the reading was 15.5%. I guess there is a difference. The fruit was sitting on my counter for several days.

Simon

beicadad

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2018, 01:06:53 PM »
Dekopon/Sumo from HMart scores Brix of 18.5.

I noticed some batches were not as sweet. fyliu, maybe you got a batch thatís not so good. They are not as tart as other good tasting mandarins.

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2018, 01:57:42 PM »
I e noticed some inconsistency with Dekopons. Some years they taste more tart than in other years. There is also a big difference in the size of fruit. Some are about Gold Nugget Size and others are the more normal naval Orange size.

Dancy tangerine from my friends house, March 11% Brix. Iím going to start adding pictures to my Brix readings whenever I remember.

For anyone that does not currently have a refractometer, it is a great way to track the progress of your fruit to know when to pick it at its sweetest. If you keep good records, you can forecast what month your fruit will be ready. Refractometers are also her affordable at $22 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M1GLSSF/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522000391&sr=1-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&dpPl=1&dpID=417ht0vTBKL&ref=plSrch

Simon

jim VH

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2018, 11:03:35 AM »
LA Early Satsuma in Vancouver Wa. -near Portland Ore.

Brix level 12.1%
Titratable  acid level 1.6%

taken February 4th 2018

Millet

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2018, 05:58:42 PM »
Jim VH  with a brix of 12.1 and an acid content of only 1.6  your La Early Satsuma must have really taste sweet.

jim VH

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2018, 08:50:51 PM »
Hi Millet!

Yes, they're usually sweeter than the 'Wonderful Halos' in the store, though not as sweet as some of the other types of store bought Satsumas.  They're also sweeter in mid-winter than they are when they first turn fully orange in early-mid November.    The same measurements on January first were :  Brix=11.1%    Acid=1.8%, so the sugar level must rise for some reason even during cool weather-at the expense of the acid?

The flavor is also quite good and rather different (and often better) than the store bought ones-possibly our cool mediterranean  climate?  It's been in the ground since 2008 and the flavor gets better every year.


simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 07:00:49 PM »
Store bought Moro blood orange from March reading, 10% Brix

Store bought Cara Cara from March reading, 13% Brix

Store bought Sky Valley Heirloom Navel Orange from March reading, 15% Brix


The Moro was not as good as in previous years and this Cara Cara was ok but the flavor was not in its prime. The Sky Valley Heirloom Navel was fantastic and tasted like how a good orange should taste like.

Jim, how are you taking your acid readings? I would like to start including this info and I was just going to take a pH reading. Do you perform an actual titration? Thanks,
Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 10:50:45 PM »
Home grown Tango harvested in April, 17%Brix

Home grown Gold Nugget, April, 16% Brix

Simon

jim VH

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2018, 11:38:18 AM »
Hi Simon

Yes, I do an actual titration.  Last year I found my dad's old wine making kit while going through his effects and decided to try it on the citrus.  Brix is determined with a hygrometer, using juice squeezed from about six fruit to supply the necessary 90 ml volume.

Titration uses 15 ml of that juice, with three drops of Phenolphthalein.  Then 0.2N NaOh solution is added until the color changes.  Acid is determined from the volume of the Sodium Hydroxide solution- each ml = 0.1% acid.  Because the juice is orange , it's a bit of an art form to detect when that color change occurs, requiring careful observation and a lot of swirling.  I screwed up the first couple tries by adding too much NaOh until I got the hang of it; I found it  helps a lot to keep an untitrated juice sample to compare color against. 

Just For grinnies, I  also took brix and acid levels for some Yuzu juice I had in the freezer from my crop harvested in mid-November 2016

Yuzu:

Brix    12.2%
Acid     6.2%

I was rather surprised how high the Brix was

fyliu

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2018, 03:20:52 PM »
That's awesome! You sacrificed whole fruits for science. I just use a cheap brix meter from ebay.

Do you just make a batch of solutions and store them?

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2018, 09:16:45 PM »
Jim, thank you so much for the response. I wonder if a simple pH probe reading would give us usable information in regards to the sourness of a Fruit?

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2018, 09:57:54 PM »
Store bought Oro Blanco, April, 14% Brix. Very low acidity, almost no acidity and super sweet. Absolutely delicious!





Simon

beicadad

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2018, 11:22:21 PM »
Simon where did you get the oro blanco?

Did it have bitter aftertaste? Thatís the part I donít like about GF. Thatís why I like pomelo better.

jim VH

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2018, 11:12:22 AM »
Hi fyliu,

It wasn't a complete sacrifice.  I only titrate 15 ml of the 90ml juice I used for Brix measurements.  I drank the rest  :)
One advantage of using multi-fruit juice is that it averages out inhomogenieties  in the distribution of sugar in a single fruit, and provides a good average reading of the tree as a whole.  The UCR citrus collection does that for the brix and acid levels reported on it's website.

The wine kit came with solutions pre-mixed; They keep forever if tightly sealed.  I'll run out of Sodium Hydroxide soon, though, but you can buy more either on-line, or at the local beer and winemaking store (Portland is big on microbrews, so such stores abound locally).
Or, you can simply buy some Roebic Crystal Drain opener -which is nearly 100% NaOh-and mix up your own  0.2N NaOh solution, if you're confident of your measuring skills and basic Chemistry.  You need a good scale.

Simon, yes you can use a Ph meter to determine the acid level, with some kind of calibration or conversion factor which I don't remember.  I found how to do so somewhere on-line when I was considering purchasing one, but am now too lazy to look again.  I eventually decided to stick with what I've got- it works.

Perhaps a new kind of sourness App can be developed using the camera on your cell-phone to measure the shape of your mouth and the number of wrinkles around it as a kind of 'Puckerometer'  ;).



simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2018, 04:01:26 PM »
I got the Oro Blancos from either Mitsuwa Market, Nijiya Market or Hmart. I forget which one but I will be purchasing more this week and Iíll report back when I find out where I got them. They were not bitter at all. I hate most grapefruit I have tried with the exception of Oro Blanco. It is extremely sweet with just enough acidity to make the fruit delicious. I recommend OB for people that normally donít like grapefruit.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2018, 01:53:15 AM »
Home grown Gold Nugget Mandarin, April, Brix = 18.5%
Unbelievably sweet, low acid, deep rich citrusy mandarin/Tangerine flavor. The gold Nuggets in this state tastes better to me than Dekopons/Shiranui which I am also growing. Iím comparing to supermarket Dekopons because I removed all fruit from my Shiranui this year.

I only wish I didnít harvest most my Gold Nuggets last month. The problem with leaving the Fruit on for so long is that it overlaps with flowering and can decrease next years crop. I see this as a good thing however because tangerines/Mandarins tend to overproduce to the point of breaking branches and inhibiting blooms or fruit set can decrease the need to thin Fruit.

Simon

jim VH

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2019, 03:34:45 PM »
Early St Anne Satsuma readings taken January3rd 2019

Brix: 11.1
Titratable acid: 1.5%

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2019, 01:50:02 PM »
Anyone have Brix readings on their home grown Shiranui(Dekopon)? I know a lot of people got scions from CCPP that should be fruiting already. Iím trying to figure out the best time to harvest these fruit in SoCal. Thanks,

Simon

fyliu

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2019, 03:24:48 AM »
I remember my friend harvested her Shiranui that fruited the same year it's grafted. Maybe I talked about it above already. I remember she brought it to a T-budding demo I did for the local CRFG chapter. It was still not ready in early April. The skin was not completely orange, and the taste was kind of bland. So I'm not sure if I'm supposed to wait longer to harvest them like for Gold Nugget.

There's a blemished fruit I need to pick. I hope I remember to take brix readings.

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2019, 06:21:29 PM »
Hey Fang, a couple branches from my Shiranui grafts broke about 1-2 weeks ago from the heavy weight of the fruit. The fruit was fully colored but I think they could have ripened up more on the tree.

I took a Brix reading and my home grown fruit harvested in January had a Brix reading of 14%. I also bought a couple Dekopon from the supermarket and they also had a Brix reading of 14%.

I have a couple smaller Shiranui hanging on a graft on a different tree so Iíll let these ripen a bit more to see if they get sweeter. They are on different rootstocks however so this may affect the Brix readings.

Simon

beicadad

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2019, 11:42:35 PM »
Just tested a Sumo from H-mart and I got Brix of 20. Confirmed that itís calibrated correctly.

fyliu

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2019, 02:42:17 AM »
Oh man, my mom had an upside-down cluster of 3 large shiranui fruits. This past weekend I went back and they're all off the branch... Apparently, the fruits were so heavy that the rind broke under the weight and the fruits fell off and rooted.

Should we set an amount of time for these to ripen before testing them so that we get kind of consistent conditions? Like 2 weeks or 4 weeks? Or does the brix not change much, only the acidity decreases?

beicadad

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2019, 09:40:26 PM »
Oh man, my mom had an upside-down cluster of 3 large shiranui fruits. This past weekend I went back and they're all off the branch... Apparently, the fruits were so heavy that the rind broke under the weight and the fruits fell off and rooted.

Should we set an amount of time for these to ripen before testing them so that we get kind of consistent conditions? Like 2 weeks or 4 weeks? Or does the brix not change much, only the acidity decreases?

Sorry to hear. What is the root stock was the shiranui grafted onto? From what I read itís better to use rigorous rootstock. I also read that the fruits are ready 2-4 momths after fully colored.

fyliu

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 01:48:24 AM »
Oh man, my mom had an upside-down cluster of 3 large shiranui fruits. This past weekend I went back and they're all off the branch... Apparently, the fruits were so heavy that the rind broke under the weight and the fruits fell off and rooted.

Should we set an amount of time for these to ripen before testing them so that we get kind of consistent conditions? Like 2 weeks or 4 weeks? Or does the brix not change much, only the acidity decreases?

Sorry to hear. What is the root stock was the shiranui grafted onto? From what I read itís better to use rigorous rootstock. I also read that the fruits are ready 2-4 momths after fully colored.

Grafted onto gold nugget. The graft and rootstock branch are stiff, which is why the fruits are formed upside-down rather than hanging. Next year's will be better.

So have you harvested your fruits or are you letting them hang more? I see them on my tree and I only cut the one off that has dried skin on one side.

simon_grow

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2019, 09:28:27 AM »
Hey Fang, the acidity definitely decreases as you age the fruit off the tree. I do not believe the sugars increase but I do believe the perceived sweetness increases due to the decrease in acid level which shifts the sugar/acid balance.

I still have the fruit ripening in my garage and Iím positive they will taste better now than they did a couple weeks ago. I also have a few fruit hanging on my tree so Iíll see if the February Fruit is sweeter than the December/January fruit.

Simon

beicadad

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2019, 09:37:43 PM »
Oh man, my mom had an upside-down cluster of 3 large shiranui fruits. This past weekend I went back and they're all off the branch... Apparently, the fruits were so heavy that the rind broke under the weight and the fruits fell off and rooted.

Should we set an amount of time for these to ripen before testing them so that we get kind of consistent conditions? Like 2 weeks or 4 weeks? Or does the brix not change much, only the acidity decreases?

Sorry to hear. What is the root stock was the shiranui grafted onto? From what I read itís better to use rigorous rootstock. I also read that the fruits are ready 2-4 momths after fully colored.

Grafted onto gold nugget. The graft and rootstock branch are stiff, which is why the fruits are formed upside-down rather than hanging. Next year's will be better.

So have you harvested your fruits or are you letting them hang more? I see them on my tree and I only cut the one off that has dried skin on one side.

I also grafted shiranui onto my gold nugget. The tree is still young so I didnít let it fruit. I wonder if the rootstock of a grapefruit or pomelo tree is better for shiranui.


Millet

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Re: Brix readings of Mandarins, Tangerines and Oranges
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2019, 11:18:06 AM »
Bicadad, here is what U. Of Florida writes about root stocks for satsumas :

Trifoliate orange (Poncirus trifolata (L.) Raf) is the most commonly used rootstock for satsuma mandarins, especially in cool climates where maximum cold tolerance develops. However, in Florida, where the winters can be relatively short and interrupted by brief periods of warm temperatures, trifoliate orange does not provide consistent protection from cold south of Gainesville.

Trifoliate orange grows well on fertile, clay to loamy type soils. It does not develop a very deep or wide-ranging root system and is poorly adapted to saline or calcareous conditions, but its resistance to foot rot, a soil-borne disease, makes it a good choice for soils with poor drainage. Trifoliate orange is susceptible to exocortis, a virus-like disease; blight, a disease whose causal agent is unknown; and the burrowing nematode, with some selections resistant to the citrus nematode. Many selections of P. trifoliata are available, including a dwarfing rootstock named Flying Dragon.

'Swingle' citrumelo is a cross between P. trifoliata and 'Duncan' grapefruit (Citrus paradisi Macf.). 'Carrizo' citrange is a cross between P. trifoliata and Washington Navel (Citrus sinensis L.). Satsumas are often propagated on 'Carrizo' and especially 'Swingle' rootstocks. This is due to the fact that budding and early tree growth are better for satsumas on 'Swingle' compared to P. trifoliata. The performance of satsuma on 'Swingle' or 'Carizzo' rootstocks compared to P. trifoliata has not been adequately compared, although they are believed to be less cold tolerant than when grafted on P. trifoliata. We have observed 'Navel' on 'Carrizo' and 'Owari', and 'Brown Select' on 'Swingle' to withstand 14įF without appreciable cold injury at the North Florida Research and Education Center in Quincy, FL, when fully cold acclimated.

 

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