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Author Topic: Sex and the Salaks . . .  (Read 1013 times)

Doug

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Sex and the Salaks . . .
« on: March 24, 2018, 11:20:09 AM »
Maybe this question is for Peter in here in Costa Rica. I have three Salak Palm trees which are now four years old. One has flowered and is male. The other two haven't flowered as yet so I don't know if I have any females. My question is if there is any way to distinguish the plants by sex before they flower. The two which haven't flowered are somewhat smaller in size than the male but are the same age, planted at the same time in the same area. Thanks!

Gouralata

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2018, 11:29:40 AM »
Hi Doug,

   For me before flowering it's impossible to distinguish male and female. The only good new I can give you it's that I noticed than male plants flower before in age than female plants.
  So wait ans see...

Gouralata

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2018, 03:41:09 PM »
Hi Doug,
Frequently people figure they don’t have any females because the males flower first.  Hang in there.
Saludos

sahai1

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2018, 09:34:08 PM »
not for seed grown, thus big push and big sales of tissue cultured sala here in Thailand.  Even palm oil tree is going to tissue cultured now, too much risk, waste of time, space, etc.. to be messing around with seed grown.

Seeds are free here, but I shelled out $30 per 1 year old tissue cultured seedling for a single female and a single male.  Figure eventually the female will throw out 2 suckers which I'll keep and I'll keep the male down to a single palm or two.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 06:48:44 PM »
I would think that you could buy divided suckers for a lot less than $30.  Tissue culture makes sense when planting thousands, even hundreds, but the suckers will probably grow faster for the small farm.
Peter

aroideana

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2018, 06:54:32 PM »
Would not be easy removing suckers from a salak

Doug

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 07:04:43 PM »
Thanks for your info, Peter. So, what's the best way to separate the suckers from the tree? And, is it better for the tree to remove the suckers?

Chupa King

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 08:33:20 PM »
I find it difficult to separate the keiki. One plant has several large growths but no roots coming from them. Makes me feel a little iffy to be taking them off. Same thing for my Magnifica.
Biodiversity is key.

sahai1

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2018, 09:04:59 PM »
yes I would gladly pay that or less for divided suckers.. just not available.  Perhaps it is too difficult, or what I assume is that all the tissue culture is prepared from suckers...  So instead of 1 $30 sucker, it is tissue cultured into 100 or 1000 tissue cultured plants that can be sold in a year. 

If anybody knows a good way to remove the sucker please give some tips, perhaps I will run into some charitable grower around here that will let me at their tree.  Problem is most home gardeners, small farmers, they do not want Salak because of the thorns and the pollination issue.

I would think that you could buy divided suckers for a lot less than $30.  Tissue culture makes sense when planting thousands, even hundreds, but the suckers will probably grow faster for the small farm.
Peter

Mvule101

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2018, 10:09:23 AM »
Can you get S. Magnifica seeds in Thailand?  If so from where?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2018, 11:27:49 AM »
Sucker removal in Indonesia is routine from what I understand.
We have removed plenty but it is a chore.  We select a low growing sucker and prepare a pot by making a slit on one side and slipping it on to the sucker, then fill the pot with medium.  With a pruning saw I cut half way through the connection of the sucker to the mother plant.  After 3-4 weeks I cut half way through the remainder and again until the sucker has rooted and separates easily.
Suerte, Peter

Chupa King

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2018, 02:51:16 PM »
See ... Ive seen this technique and have tried it. The sucker just still hasnt sent out roots and I am afraid to cut into it more.
Biodiversity is key.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2018, 09:39:34 PM »
Try some more, some suckers have roots to start.  Not everyone works.

HIfarm

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2018, 10:49:13 PM »
Division of suckers is common place in Bali & Java.  I have no idea of what kind of hit rate they get on them but markets will sell you rooted suckers that will come true to type.

Peter's tip sounds like the way to go.  Perhaps the hit rate might improve a bit if you sprinkle a little rooting hormone on the cut you make on the "rhizome".

John

sahai1

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2018, 11:14:47 PM »
awesome, sounds like a great way, much better than just hacking one off :)

Sucker removal in Indonesia is routine from what I understand.
We have removed plenty but it is a chore.  We select a low growing sucker and prepare a pot by making a slit on one side and slipping it on to the sucker, then fill the pot with medium.  With a pruning saw I cut half way through the connection of the sucker to the mother plant.  After 3-4 weeks I cut half way through the remainder and again until the sucker has rooted and separates easily.
Suerte, Peter

Mike T

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2018, 07:40:37 AM »
Sucker division is usual for all wallichiana and zalaccas. They are cut through and left in place and removed later.Dont plant Thai sala seeds from fruit that are one or two loculed as they nearly always turn out male.

shafak

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 02:51:09 PM »
Mike, you frequently mention about the locules for sex determination.  I just have a small doubt.  Supposing a fruit has 3 locule, but only 2 have seeds and the third is an immature one.  Would the remaining 2 seeds be females?

Sucker division is usual for all wallichiana and zalaccas. They are cut through and left in place and removed later.Dont plant Thai sala seeds from fruit that are one or two loculed as they nearly always turn out male.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 10:25:36 PM »
Keep in mind that you don’t want all females, you need males.

shafak

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 12:49:39 PM »
Of course.  No one would want only males or females.  But, more females is better.

Keep in mind that you don’t want all females, you need males.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 06:50:02 PM »
Could be, but with many diocious crops one male to ten females will work out alright.  Salak is different and to achieve maximum pollination of diocious salak you need lots of males. I’ve  been growing salak commercially for almost 30 years.  we remove the sheath from around the female cone, then when the female flower is receptive we handpollinate to get maximum set..it’s not unusual that you can’t find a male flower on a single male tree that has good pollen at that moment.  With more males you will do better.  There is a neighbor who comes over sometimes to get male flowers!  You don’t want to be in that situation.
Peter

shafak

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 01:09:18 AM »
Thanks for the explanation, Peter.  I was thinking of one male to five females.  BTW, which cultivar are you growing? 

I guess this video demonstrate your method of pollination.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WuKVfJPDgY

Do you have any video on how to separate the pups/suckers from the main plant? 


Could be, but with many diocious crops one male to ten females will work out alright.  Salak is different and to achieve maximum pollination of diocious salak you need lots of males. I’ve  been growing salak commercially for almost 30 years.  we remove the sheath from around the female cone, then when the female flower is receptive we handpollinate to get maximum set..it’s not unusual that you can’t find a male flower on a single male tree that has good pollen at that moment.  With more males you will do better.  There is a neighbor who comes over sometimes to get male flowers!  You don’t want to be in that situation.
Peter

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2018, 05:51:13 PM »
No, I don’t have any videos on sucker division.  We select low growing suckers and place a growing pot with the back cut away around the sucker.  The pot should be filled with a good medium, maybe with some charcoal.  We cut about halfway through the connection between the sucker and mother plant and wait 2-3 weeks, then cut halfway through what’s left and wait again, checking for rooting.  Eventually we cut the sucker free and establish it in a larger pot before field planting.
Our pollination process is simpler than the one in the Thai video.  We remove the sheaths way before the female cones become receptive.  When we see the flowers are pink then we pick male flowers that show pollen, tap them around the female cone shaking the pollen onto the flowers.  We drape the male flower over the female and leave it like that.
This process seems arduous but goes quickly.  Someone passes by every salak plant 3 times a week, removing dead material, cutting away sheaths on swollen female cones, and pollinating when necessary. 
You can get some fruit by doing nothing but the more of this you carry out the more fruit you will harvest and the longer your harvest season will be, by far.
Suerte, Peter

shafak

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2018, 03:05:24 AM »
Ok.  You have not mentioned which cultivar you are growing?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2018, 01:51:28 PM »
We have made our own selections and work with selecting seedlings. I also have some very good salacca affinis.

shafak

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Re: Sex and the Salaks . . .
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2018, 12:22:39 AM »
I just received some already peeled salak from Bangkok.  Often it's mentioned that only fruits with 3 locules would be female.  Unfortunately, almost all the 50+ fruits that I received are either one or two locules  :'( :'( :'(  What are the chances of me getting female from these?

 

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