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Author Topic: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method  (Read 5764 times)

behlgarden

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Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« on: April 09, 2018, 11:40:11 AM »
Hello All Master Grafters,  I know T and Inverted T bud grafting is done on citrus, roses and many other fruits and flowers, however has anyone tried T-bud graft on mangoes?

I tried T-bud graft mango recently (2 days ago), and bark was peeling quite easily. I did both chip bud and T bud grafts. I will report progress here on how it went, but wanted to know if anyone else has had success in T-Bud grafting of Mangoes.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 12:15:54 PM by behlgarden »

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 01:13:24 PM »
Yes, it's a highly successful method of grafting mangoes and the principal means of grafting mango trees at larger nurseries, such as zills hpp and excalibur. The benefit of t-budding is more scions -- half dozen or more per donor branch tip -- making it possible to graft hundreds or thousands of specimens for a particular cultivar.

My favored budding technique was inverted-T / shield budding. Leaving a partial leaf attached to the bud and enclosing in a plastic bag (to preserve humidity) and placing in shade can help rate of take. (Remove bag after 4 - 5 weeks in warmer periods, longer in colder periods). In good conditions, you can get above 90% rate of take.

Grafting to green rootstock helps ensure success. Much lower rate of take on brown rootstock (for me at least). This can mean grafting very high on older stock (on the top two growth flushes) or low on 2 - 3 month old seedlings.

If you're extra special, you come up with a magic fungicide potion that you dip your scions into before grafting.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 01:46:04 PM »
PS -- One of the harder aspects of shield budding mangoes is getting the bud eyes to spring, depending on your timing. If you're bud is still green after a month in warm weather (perhaps 6 weeks in cooler weather), then your graft is good and you just need to figure out a way to get the bud to spring.

Here in FL, shield budding from Oct to Dec was best for me, as bark was still slipping during this period, and the spring push is so strong, that nearly all bud eyes would begin growing on their own in April. If you're on your game and want to crank out hundreds of grafts, you plant the seeds in June. Then in Oct they are ready for budding. Then in spring you have little grafted 1 gallon trees growing. (The timing would probably be different for socal.)

If bud eyes don't spring on their own, you need to head back the rootstock, leaving only a couple of leaves above the grafted bud. You can also head back the rootstock at time of budding -- just keep an eye on the shoots that try to emerge from the rootstock (pick those off).

But if you are not grafting dozens / hundreds of trees, easiest is to just cleft or side veneer. A great way to get instant grafted trees (with high rate of success) is to graft onto seedlings when they are literally only 3 weeks sprouted (with foliage still reddish), using a cleft graft. Rate of take is high, and there is still plenty of energy in the seed to push scion growth (you don't even need to leave foliage on the rootstock, though it can be helpful to leave a couple of half-leaves on the scion and bag the whole thing).
Jeff  :-)

behlgarden

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 01:48:12 PM »
Yes, it's a highly successful method of grafting mangoes and the principal means of grafting mango trees at larger nurseries, such as zills hpp and excalibur. The benefit of t-budding is more scions -- half dozen or more per donor branch tip -- making it possible to graft hundreds or thousands of specimens for a particular cultivar.

My favored budding technique was inverted-T / shield budding. Leaving a partial leaf attached to the bud and enclosing in a plastic bag (to preserve humidity) and placing in shade can help rate of take. (Remove bag after 4 - 5 weeks in warmer periods, longer in colder periods). In good conditions, you can get above 90% rate of take.

Grafting to green rootstock helps ensure success. Much lower rate of take on brown rootstock (for me at least). This can mean grafting very high on older stock (on the top two growth flushes) or low on 2 - 3 month old seedlings.

If you're extra special, you come up with a magic fungicide potion that you dip your scions into before grafting.

Thanks Jeff. I am optimistic over takes, will keep you posted. my T-budding was not inverted. I opened the flaps of bark, and simply pushed down the bud, and aligned the top part of bud section to the top of T cut. wrapped with buddy tape. it was full of sap flow. We have intense heat next 3 days so I am hopeful it might get good energy flow into the bud.

behlgarden

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 01:52:27 PM »
PS -- One of the harder aspects of shield budding mangoes is getting the bud eyes to spring, depending on your timing. If you're bud is still green after a month in warm weather (perhaps 6 weeks in cooler weather), then your graft is good and you just need to figure out a way to get the bud to spring.

Here in FL, shield budding from Oct to Dec was best for me, as bark was still slipping during this period, and the spring push is so strong, that nearly all bud eyes would begin growing on their own in April. If you're on your game and want to crank out hundreds of grafts, you plant the seeds in June. Then in Oct they are ready for budding. Then in spring you have little grafted 1 gallon trees growing. (The timing would probably be different for socal.)

If bud eyes don't spring on their own, you need to head back the rootstock, leaving only a couple of leaves above the grafted bud. You can also head back the rootstock at time of budding -- just keep an eye on the shoots that try to emerge from the rootstock (pick those off).

But if you are not grafting dozens / hundreds of trees, easiest is to just cleft or side veneer. A great way to get instant grafted trees (with high rate of success) is to graft onto seedlings when they are literally only 3 weeks sprouted (with foliage still reddish), using a cleft graft. Rate of take is high, and there is still plenty of energy in the seed to push scion growth (you don't even need to leave foliage on the rootstock, though it can be helpful to leave a couple of half-leaves on the scion and bag the whole thing).

I did a LZ graft on a 3 week old seedling and it was instant success. to allow energy flow via sun to leaves, I did a modified cleft/veneer where I left leaves and top part intact and went on a diagonal and about 3/4 deep into the rootstock width and about an inch long. once graft pushed I cut the head of seedling off.

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2018, 02:03:46 PM »
I don't think there is any difference in rate of take due to inverted vs standard shield bud. I just found that inverted was easier to insert the bud due to how the hand is positioned.

Yes, it's a highly successful method of grafting mangoes and the principal means of grafting mango trees at larger nurseries, such as zills hpp and excalibur. The benefit of t-budding is more scions -- half dozen or more per donor branch tip -- making it possible to graft hundreds or thousands of specimens for a particular cultivar.

My favored budding technique was inverted-T / shield budding. Leaving a partial leaf attached to the bud and enclosing in a plastic bag (to preserve humidity) and placing in shade can help rate of take. (Remove bag after 4 - 5 weeks in warmer periods, longer in colder periods). In good conditions, you can get above 90% rate of take.

Grafting to green rootstock helps ensure success. Much lower rate of take on brown rootstock (for me at least). This can mean grafting very high on older stock (on the top two growth flushes) or low on 2 - 3 month old seedlings.

If you're extra special, you come up with a magic fungicide potion that you dip your scions into before grafting.

Thanks Jeff. I am optimistic over takes, will keep you posted. my T-budding was not inverted. I opened the flaps of bark, and simply pushed down the bud, and aligned the top part of bud section to the top of T cut. wrapped with buddy tape. it was full of sap flow. We have intense heat next 3 days so I am hopeful it might get good energy flow into the bud.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2018, 02:05:48 PM »
Nice! You could probably get good success even without leaves. The seed has enough energy store for a least 2 flushes -- the second flush being your scion.

PS -- One of the harder aspects of shield budding mangoes is getting the bud eyes to spring, depending on your timing. If you're bud is still green after a month in warm weather (perhaps 6 weeks in cooler weather), then your graft is good and you just need to figure out a way to get the bud to spring.

Here in FL, shield budding from Oct to Dec was best for me, as bark was still slipping during this period, and the spring push is so strong, that nearly all bud eyes would begin growing on their own in April. If you're on your game and want to crank out hundreds of grafts, you plant the seeds in June. Then in Oct they are ready for budding. Then in spring you have little grafted 1 gallon trees growing. (The timing would probably be different for socal.)

If bud eyes don't spring on their own, you need to head back the rootstock, leaving only a couple of leaves above the grafted bud. You can also head back the rootstock at time of budding -- just keep an eye on the shoots that try to emerge from the rootstock (pick those off).

But if you are not grafting dozens / hundreds of trees, easiest is to just cleft or side veneer. A great way to get instant grafted trees (with high rate of success) is to graft onto seedlings when they are literally only 3 weeks sprouted (with foliage still reddish), using a cleft graft. Rate of take is high, and there is still plenty of energy in the seed to push scion growth (you don't even need to leave foliage on the rootstock, though it can be helpful to leave a couple of half-leaves on the scion and bag the whole thing).

I did a LZ graft on a 3 week old seedling and it was instant success. to allow energy flow via sun to leaves, I did a modified cleft/veneer where I left leaves and top part intact and went on a diagonal and about 3/4 deep into the rootstock width and about an inch long. once graft pushed I cut the head of seedling off.
Jeff  :-)

behlgarden

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2018, 02:08:20 PM »
I don't think there is any difference in rate of take due to inverted vs standard shield bud. I just found that inverted was easier to insert the bud due to how the hand is positioned.

ok, fun fact. we know that when bud has healed and not springing out, we make a horizontal cut above the bud to stop flow of sap, causing the bud to accumulate more sap and eventually push. If that theory works, then having a T would and should work better as bottom of bud is flowing sap as as it hits the top of T there is cut, it should force bud to push even better? remains to be seen.  ;D ;D

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2018, 03:09:50 PM »
Jeff, do you remove wood from back of bud you harvest OR leave it as is?

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2018, 03:33:32 PM »
Generally I leave as is. I don't think it matters either way. A razor blade (eg, schick injectable) is best for those cuts.

Jeff, do you remove wood from back of bud you harvest OR leave it as is?
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2018, 03:36:12 PM »
ok, fun fact. we know that when bud has healed and not springing out, we make a horizontal cut above the bud to stop flow of sap, causing the bud to accumulate more sap and eventually push. If that theory works, then having a T would and should work better as bottom of bud is flowing sap as as it hits the top of T there is cut, it should force bud to push even better? remains to be seen.  ;D ;D
I do that for citrus bud grafts but not for the reason you say. Sap flows downwards in the bark, so you'd be blocking the flow of sap. Water flows up through the wood layers, but cutting the bark won't stop it going up. Cutting the whole branch would do that. If anything, cutting off the sap will cause the buds above the cut to grow, like when you prepare scions for cutting.

What scoring the bark does is stop the auxin that's produced by the apical tip of the branch, which would have inhibited all the buds below it from pushing. Without the influence of the hormone, all the buds below the score would grow. Because it's not a complete cutoff, only one or a few right below will grow and the hormone will diffuse all the way around pretty soon.

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2018, 03:44:10 PM »
I've never tried that, but a healthy tree would bridge the gap without issue. That's why you need to really scrape away all cambium across a good section when doing air layers. I guess you could try doing an "inverted marcot" by scraping away all cambium above the graft, but it seems like that would just starve the roots and would be practically equivalent to simply snipping the rootstock just above the scion -- which does work in most cases, but it does slow down growth momentum significantly.

FYI -- Citrus buds spring far easier than mango.

I don't think there is any difference in rate of take due to inverted vs standard shield bud. I just found that inverted was easier to insert the bud due to how the hand is positioned.

ok, fun fact. we know that when bud has healed and not springing out, we make a horizontal cut above the bud to stop flow of sap, causing the bud to accumulate more sap and eventually push. If that theory works, then having a T would and should work better as bottom of bud is flowing sap as as it hits the top of T there is cut, it should force bud to push even better? remains to be seen.  ;D ;D
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2018, 03:46:58 PM »
In mango, you can cut out the budeyes of the leaves above the scion / bud, which does help.

ok, fun fact. we know that when bud has healed and not springing out, we make a horizontal cut above the bud to stop flow of sap, causing the bud to accumulate more sap and eventually push. If that theory works, then having a T would and should work better as bottom of bud is flowing sap as as it hits the top of T there is cut, it should force bud to push even better? remains to be seen.  ;D ;D
I do that for citrus bud grafts but not for the reason you say. Sap flows downwards in the bark, so you'd be blocking the flow of sap. Water flows up through the wood layers, but cutting the bark won't stop it going up. Cutting the whole branch would do that. If anything, cutting off the sap will cause the buds above the cut to grow, like when you prepare scions for cutting.

What scoring the bark does is stop the auxin that's produced by the apical tip of the branch, which would have inhibited all the buds below it from pushing. Without the influence of the hormone, all the buds below the score would grow. Because it's not a complete cutoff, only one or a few right below will grow and the hormone will diffuse all the way around pretty soon.
Jeff  :-)


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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2018, 04:53:24 PM »
Why not do what Mark Texas does and get the Schick injector blade mounted on Xacto handle?

I just use my regular grafting knife with the bark lifter head.

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2018, 04:59:37 PM »
Why not do what Mark Texas does and get the Schick injector blade mounted on Xacto handle?

I just use my regular grafting knife with the bark lifter head.

Those handles are rounded and might slip or curve out and I could get potential cut. Rectangle handle might be better option. As long as blades are razor sharp I am good. For bud grafting, I tried two other knives, after sharpening to death they still wont glide like i would like to. Razor blade sound better idea.

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2018, 05:23:31 PM »
But these ones have small handles that look like they're harder to control.

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2018, 05:43:00 PM »
But these ones have small handles that look like they're harder to control.

yes but have finger recess curved so it might be ok. I will test them once I get them. Are Xacto blades razor blades?


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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2018, 05:51:49 PM »
This is exactly what I use. Pretty popular grafting setup. Have never injured myself in probably a decade of use and somewhere around a thousand grafts.

Why not do what Mark Texas does and get the Schick injector blade mounted on Xacto handle?

I just use my regular grafting knife with the bark lifter head.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2018, 06:10:41 PM »
This is exactly what I use. Pretty popular grafting setup. Have never injured myself in probably a decade of use and somewhere around a thousand grafts.

Why not do what Mark Texas does and get the Schick injector blade mounted on Xacto handle?

I just use my regular grafting knife with the bark lifter head.

You convinced me  ;D ;D. ordered Xacto X5282 Basic Knife Set and Schick injector blade. hope shick blade fit perfectly into Xacto holders. 

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2018, 06:50:16 PM »
Jeff, do you use any hormone when you do bud grafting?

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2018, 07:23:17 PM »
No hormones used.

I forget the model number of the handle that fits those schick blades.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2018, 09:00:39 PM »
K2 sounds right.
Jeff  :-)

 

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