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Author Topic: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method  (Read 5803 times)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #100 on: June 22, 2018, 09:39:37 AM »
Don't cut off all the root-stock's leaves before there are matured scion leaves.  What must be destroyed are root-stock's buds, not the leaves.

That's what I usually do, leave the "nurse" leaves until the scion leaves are filled out and producing for the tree.  Almost daily I knock off foliar buds pushing from below the graft.

MANGOJOY

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #101 on: June 22, 2018, 12:13:17 PM »
Can we do this method of grafting for top working multiple varieties into one tree?

Cookie Monster

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #102 on: June 22, 2018, 03:07:09 PM »
Yes, but it's more difficult than a side veneer. Not much point in budding mango unless you're a commercial grafter looking to maximize budwood. Side veneer is generally best for top working.

Can we do this method of grafting for top working multiple varieties into one tree?
Jeff  :-)

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2018, 11:17:31 PM »
My first successful push from a Mango bud graft. I didnít use any chemicals but trimming back some of the apical dominance seems to have helped. This bud has been completely unwrapped for about a month and the heat seems to have been the final push it needed. For those members in SoCal, right now is a good time to attempt bud grafts because rootstocks are usually pushing vigorously in the warm weather.

I know, I know, itís really still too early to call it a success but all the other buds have already died off and this is the only one showing signs of life. The union looks pretty good although this bud graft is on a relatively weak branch.

The rootstock is one of my California Super Mango Rootstocks and the tree grew too vigorously. The branches that formed on this potted Mango were too large and the branches had too many divets from growth buds to put on a regular cleft, side cleft or veneer graft. Bud grafting seemed like the best option because of all the growth bumps.

The tree has since exploded with more normal growth that is much smoother which I plan on cleft, side and veneer grafting. I may put on a few more bud grafts just for fun.

This bud graft that is beginning to push is one of the buds that I posted pictures of one or two pages back.





Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2018, 12:05:00 AM »
My first successful push from a Mango bud graft. I didnít use any chemicals but trimming back some of the apical dominance seems to have helped. This bud has been completely unwrapped for about a month and the heat seems to have been the final push it needed. For those members in SoCal, right now is a good time to attempt bud grafts because rootstocks are usually pushing vigorously in the warm weather.

I know, I know, itís really still too early to call it a success but all the other buds have already died off and this is the only one showing signs of life. The union looks pretty good although this bud graft is on a relatively weak branch.

The rootstock is one of my California Super Mango Rootstocks and the tree grew too vigorously. The branches that formed on this potted Mango were too large and the branches had too many divets from growth buds to put on a regular cleft, side cleft or veneer graft. Bud grafting seemed like the best option because of all the growth bumps.

The tree has since exploded with more normal growth that is much smoother which I plan on cleft, side and veneer grafting. I may put on a few more bud grafts just for fun.

This bud graft that is beginning to push is one of the buds that I posted pictures of one or two pages back.





Simon

Looking good Simon!  I think I'll try bud grafting next year.
Warren

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2018, 12:47:30 AM »
Congrats. That's a take.

My first successful push from a Mango bud graft. I didnít use any chemicals but trimming back some of the apical dominance seems to have helped. This bud has been completely unwrapped for about a month and the heat seems to have been the final push it needed. For those members in SoCal, right now is a good time to attempt bud grafts because rootstocks are usually pushing vigorously in the warm weather.

I know, I know, itís really still too early to call it a success but all the other buds have already died off and this is the only one showing signs of life. The union looks pretty good although this bud graft is on a relatively weak branch.

The rootstock is one of my California Super Mango Rootstocks and the tree grew too vigorously. The branches that formed on this potted Mango were too large and the branches had too many divets from growth buds to put on a regular cleft, side cleft or veneer graft. Bud grafting seemed like the best option because of all the growth bumps.

The tree has since exploded with more normal growth that is much smoother which I plan on cleft, side and veneer grafting. I may put on a few more bud grafts just for fun.

This bud graft that is beginning to push is one of the buds that I posted pictures of one or two pages back.





Simon
Jeff  :-)

Jose Spain

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2018, 03:08:29 AM »
Once it takes, bud graft heals faster and better than other grafts. If rate of success was the same than veneer and cleft, it would be a great method for mangoes, but it isn't. Bud grafting of Maha on Gomera 3, 6 months later: 


Jose

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #107 on: August 08, 2018, 09:16:30 AM »
In this video, Sal lifts the cambium in order to disturb it. Has anyone tried this?

I did not lift the cambium but I plan on testing it out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HrfKElaaO14

Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2018, 11:13:56 AM »
Great bud work Simon, congrats ;) 8)

Jose Spain

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #109 on: August 08, 2018, 03:08:03 PM »
In this video, Sal lifts the cambium in order to disturb it. Has anyone tried this?

I did not lift the cambium but I plan on testing it out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HrfKElaaO14

Simon

I did for the Maha Chanok I posted before, following the instructions of that video. Out of 3 grafts, that one took. Later this summer I tried 2 more bud graft with an Alphonso scion, I didn't lift those ones, none took, all the rest I did (veneer, cleft and even one tongue graft) did take. BTW, the bud grafted Maha is growing better and faster than veneer and cleft, but that could be because of the rootstock. With these numbers I can just guess.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 03:10:54 PM by Jose Spain »
Jose

behlgarden

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #110 on: August 08, 2018, 05:48:01 PM »
with 100's of grafts that took for me, I tried budgrafting too and for me I found it to be waste of time and resource. Cleft or veneer is so simple and get 100% take in current weather.

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #111 on: August 08, 2018, 06:35:40 PM »
Behl, I wonder if our success rate will be a lot higher now that is August. I have the best success when itís warm, especially at night.

Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #112 on: August 08, 2018, 06:40:49 PM »
might be, but when I am hitting 100% in other ways I dont normally take chances. yes, will try if I run out of branches to graft. I will have plenty of open branches to experiment with now thru Sept. Keep us posted on your success.

CA Hockey

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #113 on: August 09, 2018, 02:50:34 AM »
I havenít tried bud grafting mangoes but my experience with citrus is that the buds seem delayed in terms of growth potential compared to grafting actual branches with multiple buds. My citrus grafts of 6-8 inches from this early summer already equal or exceed bud grafts from m lay summer in terms of growth and also in terms of branching.

The only caveat I see with this comparison is that my mango veneer and cleft grafts usually only push through 1 node from the scion. Anyone with different experience?

Otherwise congrats Simon! And good luck with your rootsctock experiments.

behlgarden

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #114 on: August 09, 2018, 10:43:18 AM »
I havenít tried bud grafting mangoes but my experience with citrus is that the buds seem delayed in terms of growth potential compared to grafting actual branches with multiple buds. My citrus grafts of 6-8 inches from this early summer already equal or exceed bud grafts from m lay summer in terms of growth and also in terms of branching.

The only caveat I see with this comparison is that my mango veneer and cleft grafts usually only push through 1 node from the scion. Anyone with different experience?

Otherwise congrats Simon! And good luck with your rootsctock experiments.

not true, mango will push only thru one node if the top bud is intact. If you knock off the top bud, you get multiple pushes. I have in fact given up top node now, when I prep scions for others, I remove the leading bud, leaving behind at least 4 swelled nodes, you get takes from most of them.

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #115 on: August 09, 2018, 08:34:30 PM »
Iíve done a bunch of successful citrus bud and cleft grafts and from my experience, the cleft grafts initiate growth much faster and grow faster overall. I allow my citrus bud graft to heal for about a month and if they havenít pushed by then, I trim off nearby growth to re direct energy towards the bud and this usually kicks the bud into gear.

Iíve had equally good success with mango cleft grafts whether using apical bud scions or scions with the apical bud removed. I sometimes get apical buds pushing 2 stems such as this Peach Cobbler.





This ST Maui




And this Juicy Peach look like they will push multiple sprouts from the apical bud as well


Hereís one that Behl was talking about. This is a CAC/COC scion with the apical bud removed. It will form multiple branches that are nicely spaced. It got a little messed up in the heat but should be fine.

Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #116 on: August 09, 2018, 10:09:28 PM »
In this video, Sal lifts the cambium in order to disturb it. Has anyone tried this?

I did not lift the cambium but I plan on testing it out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HrfKElaaO14

Simon

Hi Simon,

I think that will ensure there are some cambium making contact to the bud just in case the rootstock cut was not deep down to the cambium top surface. (If he cut a little too deep then there is no cambium.)

Btw, toward the end Sal talked about the bird attacked the green tape thinking it was a worm; well, I think the bird wanted it for nesting material.

sapote

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #117 on: August 09, 2018, 10:14:36 PM »
For small scale gardener I still think the best graft is either cleft (wedge down the center) with pencil size rootstock  or veneer on 1" diameter rootstock. Bud graft is just too weak too slow.

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #118 on: August 09, 2018, 11:43:16 PM »
Sapote, I agree although there are special cases that bud grafts work better. The bud grafts are easier to place and if one becomes proficient at it, you can instantly create a multigraft Mango tree on a whip. This is how Dave Wilson Nursery creates their multigraft stone fruits.

Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2018, 09:13:40 AM »
Many attempts at multi-grafting young mango seedlings, several different ways, never worked--- at Zill's nurseries.  Citrus multi-grafts, cocktail trees, often diminish in number of varieties, after several years.

Cocktail trees are best accomplished on trees that have been in the ground for several years.
Har

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2018, 10:13:40 AM »
Many attempts at multi-grafting young mango seedlings, several different ways, never worked--- at Zill's nurseries.  Citrus multi-grafts, cocktail trees, often diminish in number of varieties, after several years.

Cocktail trees are best accomplished on trees that have been in the ground for several years.

Agree.  For some strange reason I've had terrible luck on avocado seedlings using Reed, Sir Prize, Oro Negro seedlings.  In ground and they go bonkers. 

Probably done about 20 grafts to a big key lime of 3 varieties of oranges, persian lime, limequat, etc.  Cleft green on green, mostly T-bud, my favorite for citrus.   The t-bud shoots sometimes come off 3 to a budeye and the branches I did a few months ago are already 1/2" thick and 2-3' long.  Have done cocktail mangos with great success too.



Cocktail mango about 3 weeks ago.  Pineapple Pleasure output has been tipped/topped at least once.  It is vigorous. Pineapple Pleasure, Juicy Peach and Orange Sherbet are going gang busters on a Malika that froze back to its turpentine rootstock:



simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2018, 11:20:41 AM »
Many attempts at multi-grafting young mango seedlings, several different ways, never worked--- at Zill's nurseries.  Citrus multi-grafts, cocktail trees, often diminish in number of varieties, after several years.

Cocktail trees are best accomplished on trees that have been in the ground for several years.

Har, great information! Iíve had great luck multigrafting secondary branches on sapling Mangos but I usually only put on two varieties. Hereís one I posted before of a Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart multigraft.

I believe there is a mechanism in young trees that senses damage. If the damage is too great, the seedling will abort the main sprout and push a new sprout. Iíve had this happen on many occasions.


Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2018, 11:30:31 AM »
Many attempts at multi-grafting young mango seedlings, several different ways, never worked--- at Zill's nurseries.  Citrus multi-grafts, cocktail trees, often diminish in number of varieties, after several years.

Cocktail trees are best accomplished on trees that have been in the ground for several years.
Har, I always start with number of varieties that are on number of branches on a seedling that is 2-3 yr old. usually I have 2 to 4 branches. all these get different mango types and they grow into trees of their own. later on if I see opportunity on grafted branch to graft other varieties to add more, I do that but with caution. I do have some trees that have over 15 varieties but that is for budwood sourcing only.

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #123 on: August 11, 2018, 12:00:56 PM »
Hereís a quick update of the Mango bud graft. It is growing fast in this heat.







Simon

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Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2018, 01:48:40 PM »
Nicely done, Simon. I experimented with bud grafting a while back and contrary to common belief, bud grafts are more vigorous and therefore grow much faster than normal traditional grafts. BUT depending on conditions, they are maybe slow to kickstart. Once they start, however, to go bonkers like Mark would say. I have chip budded atemoyas with the same ease as with mangos and the behavior is confirmed again and again.

Below is my LZ experimental chip bud graft back in 2015 on a mature branch of Bombay on main in ground Manila. Chip bud is very versatile as it could be done practical anytime and on young or mature branches.


An example of a chip budded Pink's Mammoth on Jumbo AP on main in ground Minh atemoya with modified side grafted soursop at the end of the branch.

Thera

 

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