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Author Topic: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!  (Read 20120 times)

PahoaJo

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2018, 12:26:57 AM »
Funny, the second video is blocked in Iceland, of all places. I'm watching the first video and keep cringing at the bad pronunciation, mixing up of place names and other such things  ;)

Are there any sites that are mapping where the lava flows in Hawaii have reached?

There are many Puna/Lava related groups on Facebook.  Those groups, along with a website called Punaweb have the most updated sources of information.

Luisport

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2018, 03:01:01 PM »
Fissures got a lot bigger overnight. Way more lava erupting.
https://www.facebook.com/travis.sanders.35/videos/1914908885195696/

Luisport

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2018, 03:32:39 PM »
BREAKING: Happening Now!

7th eruption in Leilani Estates.

The 7th and possibly longest/largest fissure has opened up in Leilani Estates.

Reported By USGS: Likely going to be a long duration event.

HIfarm

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2018, 03:45:33 PM »
According to the news this am, we are now up to 8 fissures in Leilani.

Luisport

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2018, 03:50:52 PM »
LEILANI ESTATES, Hawaii - Hawaii Fire Department reports extremely dangerous conditions due to high levels of Sulfur Dioxide gas in the evacuation area.

full article:
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/05/04/10-am-eruption-update-dangerous-levels-of-sulfur-dioxide-gas-reported/

ScottR

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2018, 07:26:58 PM »
Luis, thank you for the continued up dates, we haven't heard from Oscar yet but i think the worst for him might be the gases if the wind blows his way! He's outside of Pahoa  so unless fissures grow more which they can an more open up his way he should be fine.

HIfarm

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2018, 09:04:09 PM »
I don't know for sure but I suspect Oscar may be traveling -- his site is closed at present.  Even if it is not right in his neighborhood, the SO2 can really do a number on plants -- hopefully his will be ok.  There are at least 2 or 3 collections of rare palms in the Leilani subdivision and I suspect this eruption might be quite a blow to palm enthusiasts.

Luisport

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2018, 03:43:39 AM »
PM Breaking News
@PMBreakingNews
Hawaii Volcano Eruptions:
-  8 eruptive fissures in Leilani Estates
- At least five homes destroyed due to lava
- 8 earthquakes magnitude 4.5 or over hit the island in the last 48 hours
- USGS: "We see no slow down in activity"



Allyson Blair

@AllysonBlairTV
Sulfur Dioxide Exposure Update: Just heard from Dr. Bronstein, from the DOH, he says masks bought from the store, even the N-95's will do little to protect from SO2. W/ levels as high as they are in Puna- staying indoors may not be enough either. Should leave area. #Kilauea

04:27 - 6 de mai de 2018

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2018, 06:31:03 AM »
Hello folks, i am fine, my family is fine, my trees are fine, there are no gases. Scariest have been all the constant small tremors. Yesterday there were 2 big quakes, one 5.6 and another 6.9. Missed both of those shakers as flew to Kauai on that day for vacation. My place is about 3 miles from active zone, maybe about 2.5 as the crow flies. Am not downhill from active zone, so am fine for now unless there are new fissures opening right above our place. Lava is like any liquid subtance, and flows downhill. So unless the breakout is right above us will not be affected.
Really most troubling of all, not brought up by any of you, is possibility of lava flowing over roads that lead to our farm. If that happens we are locked out. Roads are long things, so probability of lava flowing over them is way greater than it flowing over particular house or farm. If you can't access your place, then it's almost as bad as losing it. Unless you rent a helicopter.
There is a lot of misinformation and dramatization in the news, like the one about Pahoa belng evacuated. The best source of news right now is the USGS website. Good place to start https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_chronology.html
About Karen's point of stopping lava, i wish she were right, but she isn't. If she thinks she can do it i welcome her to fly over and try it. It has been attempted here several times before and always failed. It's sort of like people that think they can stop a hurricane or an earthquake. Well maybe some future century, but not possible yet.
Thanks for everyone's concern. Keep in mind that the greatest danger here is to property, land, roads, trees, wild animals, and not life and limb. This is a shield volcano, not like Mt. St. Helens. Lava here is usually very slow moving, there is plenty of time to get out of harm's way. Harder to move a house or a farm.
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2018, 08:18:23 AM »
Glad to see you, your family and your trees are fine Oscar. Hopefully the lava doesnt flow over your access roads. Stay safe Everyone.

Simon

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2018, 08:34:28 AM »
Happy to hear you and your home are okay Oscar. Wishing you and all your family, friends, and neighbors well and that this tragedy soon comes to an end.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2018, 08:38:41 AM »
Good news Oscar.  I witnessed the progression of lava across the road, the explosion of trees, etc. in a flow down your way in the 80's.  It is scary but also fascinating.   Good luck!

Luisport

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2018, 10:41:40 AM »
One pregnant hiker kiled on Hawaii!

ScottR

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2018, 11:00:42 AM »
Good to hear from you Oscar an glad all is good so far, yeah road access that would be terrible to be lock out as you say from property.

sytanta

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2018, 11:04:11 AM »
Great to hear from you and to know that you're safe Oscar!

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2018, 11:31:19 AM »
Thank God your safe Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2018, 11:38:18 AM »
So great to hear that you're okay and the gas isn't too bad - that was my biggest concern!  Hope the lights are staying on.  Up here we don't normally have to deal with the "isolated people getting cut off" problem; volcanoes frequently take out major roads via jkulhlaup (huge volcanic outburst floods which can be several times bigger than the flood stage of the amazon river), but you can get past them by going the other way around the island.  Huge inconvenience, but there is a workaround.

As for me controlling your lava, I don't think I can fit that into my schedule at the moment  ;)  But if the residents of Leilani Estates wanted to contract with the government of Iceland, I'm sure they'd be glad to send a team.  I imagine we'd be competing for the contract with Sicily,  who has twice successfully redirected lava flows from Mount Etna.  Of course, even this was decades old tech (before we even had computer modeling), let alone the century-old tech last attempted on Hawaii  :)  I suppose we could also argue that lava redirection doesn't work because the 1669 attempt by villagers of Catania using pickaxes didn't work  ;)

$3m barrier by the tourist complex on Mount Etna.  Estimated to have prevented up to $25m in damage.





The other barrier, to protect populated areas. One minor breach, but a small secondary barrier contained it.



I do understand (although I have trouble internalizing it) the cultural resistance on Hawaii to interfering with volcanism.  Sort of like how you have such resistance to geothermal energy projects, while we love them up here (we actually have one plant producing power directly from a magma chamber).  To an outsider, the notion of deferring to the volcano it just comes across like casting ohelo berries into the crater once did. The vikings here did have a volcano "god", the giant Surtr, but he was more like a demon / devil, not one to be respected. If you had a problem with Surtr misbehaving, you'd appeal to the sir to stop him.  ;)

« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 12:02:47 PM by KarenRei »
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki klikku. Jja, kannski...

palmcity

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2018, 01:02:01 PM »
Am not downhill from active zone, so am fine for now unless there are new fissures opening right above our place. Lava is like any liquid subtance, and flows downhill. So unless the breakout is right above us will not be affected.

The best source of news right now is the USGS website. Good place to start https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_chronology.html

About Karen's point of stopping lava, i wish she were right, but she isn't. If she thinks she can do it i welcome her to fly over and try it. It has been attempted here several times before and always failed. It's sort of like people that think they can stop a hurricane or an earthquake. Well maybe some future century, but not possible yet.
Lava here is usually very slow moving, there is plenty of time to get out of harm's way. Harder to move a house or a farm.

I am glad your ok & hope all survive for another day.

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/hawaiian
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/flow-rates

Both locations have similar areas of fissures and both have volcanic activity frequently vs. much less in continental U.S. However Iceland is Latitude about 64.9631 North vs. Hawaii Big Island 19.5429 degrees North. Average sea temperature in Iceland is about 46 F vs. Big Island about 80 F. Air temperature ex. Reykjavik about 26F - 55F  vs. Big Island about 75 -90 F winter to summer.

It has already been proven that lava can be diverted if hot moving lava is cooled enough to form a significant enough blob to divert the hotter moving stream.

As you can tell, the Big Island is at a worst starting point to try to cool the hot mass with available cooler resources and the resources are not as cool as what is present in Iceland. So a much larger supply of warmer water would be needed to cool a slow moving mass of lava as you described presently for the Big Island.

I personally think it would be possible to divert the flow from some areas onto other areas if enough water were used. I think it would be unlikely to succeed in diverting a fast moving flow with a lot of volume being pushed up from a fissure (like a 60 mph stream of lava as has been reported after large volcano eruptions) unless a trench area had previously been dug.

In the U.S. the military risks lives on U.S. soil and abroad to save liberty & our freedom.

In the U.S. anyone else sending another into harms way with unacceptable risks is open to lawsuits. A building can be rebuilt and a tree replaced. It is unlikely that you will ever see the same attempt made in Iceland... repeated in any part of the Big Island.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 02:48:53 PM by palmcity »

zands

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2018, 01:06:41 PM »
I do understand (although I have trouble internalizing it) the cultural resistance on Hawaii to interfering with volcanism.  Sort of like how you have such resistance to geothermal energy projects, while we love them up here (we actually have one plant producing power directly from a magma chamber).  To an outsider, the notion of deferring to the volcano it just comes across like casting ohelo berries into the crater once did. The vikings here did have a volcano "god", the giant Surtr, but he was more like a demon / devil, not one to be respected. If you had a problem with Surtr misbehaving, you'd appeal to the sir to stop him.  ;)

Hosing down the lava flow in 1973...... spraying of seawater on the lava in Eldfell eruption in Iceland to stop it from filling in a harbor full of fishing boats. In the video go to 33 minutes in. The villagers were able to stop the lava
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg    use freeVPN  option on the Opera browser to see blocked youtube videos

Video Was posted above by Mr PalmCity
Oscar --glad everthing is OK and hope it stays this way.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 01:09:48 PM by zands »

Luisport

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2018, 01:13:38 PM »
One pregnant hiker kiled on Hawaii!
Sorry, this death wasn't related with volcanic activity...

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2018, 02:55:47 PM »
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0), there's a temperature difference of  1100C.  If you're spraying hot 30 seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30 and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100 (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100C), it would only be a 5% difference in energy.

Water spraying is of course only one way.  With Mount Etna, the successful means used were just building berms.  Indeed, the guy who saved his house in Hawaii in 2014 did it by building berms.  It's very cost effective.  The least effective technique, historically, has been the one overwhelmingly used in Hawaii (bombing).   But even with that, that was a really primitive method, using outdated, small, unguided bombs haphazardly deployed without regard to impact modeling or flow simulation. Even just knowing what materials you're hitting makes a huge difference in bomb penetration.

There's also new techniques that haven't even had a chance to be tested yet (remember, the successful redirects were all in the 1970s and early 1980s, there hasn't been need for new attempts since then... that's ages as far as tech goes).  One, for example, is chemical deflection; you dump carbonate rock (such as limestone) in front of the flow, which reacts with the flow to cool it and reduce its viscosity (ability to flow).  Works well in testing, but there's never been a chance to actually try it out in the real world.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 03:46:36 PM by KarenRei »
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki klikku. Jja, kannski...

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2018, 03:30:35 PM »
These sort of people... this is something that I understand, on a conscious level... but have trouble internalizing:

https://youtu.be/_1gFhY6iq8I?t=124

So the neighbors are left to try to defend everything their own with comparable tiny resources compared to an organized effort  :(  Like the guy out there with a garden house, which is a totally meaningless amount of water compared to what an industrial pump can deliver.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 03:37:52 PM by KarenRei »
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki klikku. Jja, kannski...

palmcity

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2018, 03:36:23 PM »
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0), there's a temperature difference of  1100C.  If you're spraying hot 30 seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30 and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100 (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100C), it would only be a 15% difference in energy.
...I would say huge disagree as the cooling substance is water...........
...The colder water temperature is very significant for cooling............
You are forgetting quite a bit...  ;) Water boils at sea level pressure at 100 C.... Thus the cooling occurs only from the current water temperature up to 100 C. unless under more pressure. (They did not put your lava flow in a pressure cooker to allow the water to stay in liquid form above 100 C. did they Karen  ;) )

Thus a few degrees C. cooler is very significant as approximately 100 C is the max. for heat transfer of cooling lava at sea level pressure....    ;)




KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2018, 03:42:05 PM »
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0), there's a temperature difference of  1100C.  If you're spraying hot 30 seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30 and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100 (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100C), it would only be a 15% difference in energy.
...I would say huge disagree as the cooling substance is water...........
...The colder water temperature is very significant for cooling............
You are forgetting quite a bit...  ;) Water boils at sea level pressure at 100 C.... Thus the cooling occurs only from the current water temperature up to 100 C. unless under more pressure. (They did not put your lava flow in a pressure cooker to allow the water to stay in liquid form above 100 C. did they Karen  ;) )

Thus a few degrees C. cooler is very significant as approximately 100 C is the max. for heat transfer of cooling lava at sea level pressure....    ;)

Please re-read my post.  You're forgetting that the energy required to convert water at just under the boiling point, to steam, is much more than the energy required to raise water from just above freezing to the boiling point. 

To put it in an easier way to envision: put a pot of water on the stove and turn it on high.  How long does it take to reach boiling?  A couple minutes maybe?  Now how long does it take the pot to boil dry?  Much longer, right?  That's because it takes far more energy to convert water to steam than it does to bring it up to the boiling point.

And beyond that, you are incorrectly assuming that steam is never hotter than 100C.  Around here, for example, the steam we use for geothermal power plants is around 250C.  The exact temperature steam will reach depends on the situation, but it does not stop at 100C.  But that's more of a side point; the primary issue is that most of the energy in boiling water lies in the phase change, not bringing the water temperature up to 100C.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 03:44:20 PM by KarenRei »
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki klikku. Jja, kannski...

palmcity

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2018, 03:46:00 PM »
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0), there's a temperature difference of  1100C.  If you're spraying hot 30 seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30 and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100 (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100C), it would only be a 15% difference in energy.
...I would say huge disagree as the cooling substance is water...........
...The colder water temperature is very significant for cooling............
You are forgetting quite a bit...  ;) Water boils at sea level pressure at 100 C.... Thus the cooling occurs only from the current water temperature up to 100 C. unless under more pressure. (They did not put your lava flow in a pressure cooker to allow the water to stay in liquid form above 100 C. did they Karen  ;) )

Thus a few degrees C. cooler is very significant as approximately 100 C is the max. for heat transfer of cooling lava at sea level pressure....    ;)

Please re-read my post.  You're forgetting that the energy required to convert water at just under the boiling point, to steam, is far more than the energy required to raise water from just above freezing to the boiling point. 

To put it in an easier way to envision: put a pot of water on the stove and turn it on high.  How long does it take to reach boiling?  A couple minutes maybe?  Now how long does it take the pot to boil dry?  Many times longer, right?  That's because it takes far more energy to convert water to steam than it does to bring it up to the boiling point.

And beyond that, you are incorrectly assuming that steam is never hotter than 100C.  Around here, for example, the steam we use for geothermal power plants is around 250C.  The exact temperature steam will reach depends on the situation, but it does not stop at 100C.  But that's more of a side point; the primary issue is that most of the energy in boiling water lies in the phase change, not bringing the water temperature up to 100C.
The geothermal plants are using pressure to increase the steam temperature. ... You must mention pressure to increase steam temperature...

 

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