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Author Topic: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?  (Read 1848 times)

adriano2

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Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« on: May 22, 2018, 08:50:13 AM »
Why is it not recommendable to grow young trees in big pots. I have made mistake with my trees, when couple of years ago i planted them in to oversized pots. Now the are losing leaves and not looking good. I thought trees would like to have more space to grow roots. Those, recently planted in smaller pots are doing great.

brian

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 09:23:21 AM »
I've always heard the reason being that the relatively small plant isn't absorbing the majority of the moisture retained by the soil, so it stagnates.

laidbackdood

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2018, 10:24:03 AM »
Brian is right......its always better to pot up...one stage at a time....a pot 2 to 4 inches bigger around.......teh roots never get to drink the water around the outside of the pot.....so its stagnates and remains wet.....the roots suffocate.....leaf drop and twig die back ensue........I killed heaps of trees like that.

z_willus_d

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2018, 11:18:50 AM »
See Brian's post here below for some pics and description of something like this in action, although in my case the potting up was from 5G to ~20G (more like 15G).  In theory, that wasn't such a large jump (about 3-4" outward from the circumference), but I'm having the symptoms: leaf drop, twig die back, etc.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28086.0

laidbackdood

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2018, 12:38:24 PM »
I think the ideal is to transplant when the pot is full of rootball.........I transplanted a papaya the other day....i just lifted it straight out the pot and it was one big rootball.......lightly roughed the outside inch and put in a pot 2 - 4 inch bigger all around...........You can tell when its rootbound because it wont stay wet for 2 minutes......next day.....its dry again......
If you have those brown mushy roots which are dead.....you have to prune them off.....put in fresh mix......give it a water(perhaps with hydrogen peroxide 3%).........this helps provide oxygen to the roots which they have been lacking......then put your tree in the shade to settle down and check every day with your meter.......let it dry out some....then you know you are getting new root growth........I never water two days in a row....If its really hot...I give trees a big soak early morning ready for the hot day.

raggashack

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2018, 07:56:29 PM »
almost everything said here, the main reasons are the growth rate of the roots and also citrus absolutely doesnt like wet soil in the container, when its not rooted yet.. i can add another 4 trees to my "killed ones" list...

i already looked for new plants at tintori but with the new shop system they want almost 60€ shipping fee for 3 plants.. anyone any experience?

adriano2

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 07:55:24 AM »
Thanks everyone. I learned my lesson with price of 2 dying trees.

laidbackdood

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 11:02:12 AM »
Not too bad...I must have killed 20 haahha

raggashack

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 03:21:42 PM »
 ;D citruskiller inc.

Millet

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 05:19:53 PM »
There are only two ways for soluble salts (fertilizers, bio-carbonates, sodium etc) to get out of a container.  Either the plant absorbs them, or they are flushed out with a lot of water. If the water used to flush the container is not either rain water, or distilled water, it too could be adding additional soluble salts with each watering.  If the  small tree's root system does not fill the complete volume of the container, these soluble salts quickly begin to accumulate causing many problems for the tree.  If the medium is frequently flushed to remove the harmful ingredients, the unused portion of the medium is constantly water longed and compacted.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 03:51:45 PM by Millet »

laidbackdood

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 07:11:44 AM »
True millet.........over feeding is just as bad as overwatering....because too much feed and the plant stops absorbing nutrients (which looks like nutrient deficiency)....I have been a serial over waterer and a serial over feeder in my time.....Both cause problems.

Mando408

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 02:24:24 PM »
I know this is the citrus forum but does gradually moving up pot sizes apply to avocados also?
I heard the bigger the better because they hate being repotted, makes sense to me since my Wurtz was beautiful when I brought it home but after moving it up from a #5 to about a 20 gallon it looked bad for months.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 03:20:57 AM »

Put those Avo tree's in the ground. Shade it from midday sun until 5-6 feet tall. They're not going to fruit in a pot and want to be in the ground from 5 gallon size.

I know this is the citrus forum but does gradually moving up pot sizes apply to avocados also?
I heard the bigger the better because they hate being repotted, makes sense to me since my Wurtz was beautiful when I brought it home but after moving it up from a #5 to about a 20 gallon it looked bad for months.

containerman

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 09:49:18 AM »
I have all my citrus in 1/2 wine barrels and 6 avocado trees in 1/2 barrel and larger containers and all my trees are fruiting. So it depends on allot of factors, soil mixture, watering, ferts, drainage, climate conditions, etc.......

I've been told to never mulch a fruit tree in a container but I mulch all mine including my 12 blueberries in 1/2 wine barrels. All my trees went from the nursery into the 1/2 wine barrels. I have 14 citrus in containers all real healthy and I never had any problems. It has worked well for me and I have heard lots of horror stories as well.

Here are a few pics of my avocados a mexicola and wurtz.









« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:55:58 AM by containerman »

Bush2Beach

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2018, 10:53:10 AM »
Your yard and tree's are looking great Containerman! I'm sure the wood helps keep the root temperatures happier than in plastic pots and looks better too. I am in the process of planting out Pixie, Page, Fukushu, Eustis and Smith Red Citrus that I have had in pots for 6 years. They are in 25, 45, and 65 gallon pots. Not that fun wrangling them into the ground but they are rootbound and drying out daily right now during flower and fruit set. I know they will be much happier and fruit tenfold soon come now.

containerman

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2018, 11:03:09 AM »
Your yard and tree's are looking great Containerman! I'm sure the wood helps keep the root temperatures happier than in plastic pots and looks better too. I am in the process of planting out Pixie, Page, Fukushu, Eustis and Smith Red Citrus that I have had in pots for 6 years. They are in 25, 45, and 65 gallon pots. Not that fun wrangling them into the ground but they are rootbound and drying out daily right now during flower and fruit set. I know they will be much happier and fruit tenfold soon come now.

You guys have a great avocado nursery in your area I would love to see sometime and maybe pick up a tree that I don't have like a sharwill or another type you don't find at most nurseries.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2018, 09:18:41 PM »
I've got extra Sharwil and Green Gold scion wrapped and ready to mail right now if you want some.

Mando408

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 05:18:59 PM »

Put those Avo tree's in the ground. Shade it from midday sun until 5-6 feet tall. They're not going to fruit in a pot and want to be in the ground from 5 gallon size.

I know this is the citrus forum but does gradually moving up pot sizes apply to avocados also?
I heard the bigger the better because they hate being repotted, makes sense to me since my Wurtz was beautiful when I brought it home but after moving it up from a #5 to about a 20 gallon it looked bad for months.

I didn't have the space at the time but I think a spot opened up for 1, so I might just do that.
Please don't tell me if I do I'm going to have to wait ANOTHER 2 years before I see flowers again.

I've got extra Sharwil and Green Gold scion wrapped and ready to mail right now if you want some.

Please don't do that either, I'm already fighting the urge to order some Reed and Sir Prize scions from you (the rootstocks I have are way too small for grafting at the moment), that Green Gold ain't helping LOL

Bush2Beach

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 11:35:53 PM »
They should flower fine.
Ive got the scion ready wrapped in parafilm , ready to go and no use for it. Just pay me $7 to ship it and Ill send out 3 each green gold and Sharwil.
I don't have Sir Prize anymore and no Reed to cut right now:)

z_willus_d

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 08:20:21 PM »
I have all my citrus in 1/2 wine barrels and 6 avocado trees in 1/2 barrel and larger containers and all my trees are fruiting. So it depends on allot of factors, soil mixture, watering, ferts, drainage, climate conditions, etc.......

I've been told to never mulch a fruit tree in a container but I mulch all mine including my 12 blueberries in 1/2 wine barrels. All my trees went from the nursery into the 1/2 wine barrels. I have 14 citrus in containers all real healthy and I never had any problems. It has worked well for me and I have heard lots of horror stories as well.
Containerman-

Have you ever managed to mature any of the Avocado fruit in your barrels.  Those plants all look supreme.  If you do mature fruit, I'll have to schedule a visit South to your place to see what you're doing that I'm not.  It all looks great!  Best of luck.

containerman

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 09:22:14 PM »
I have all my citrus in 1/2 wine barrels and 6 avocado trees in 1/2 barrel and larger containers and all my trees are fruiting. So it depends on allot of factors, soil mixture, watering, ferts, drainage, climate conditions, etc.......

I've been told to never mulch a fruit tree in a container but I mulch all mine including my 12 blueberries in 1/2 wine barrels. All my trees went from the nursery into the 1/2 wine barrels. I have 14 citrus in containers all real healthy and I never had any problems. It has worked well for me and I have heard lots of horror stories as well.
yes
Containerman-

Have you ever managed to mature any of the Avocado fruit in your barrels.  Those plants all look supreme.  If you do mature fruit, I'll have to schedule a visit South to your place to see what you're doing that I'm not.  It all looks great!  Best of luck.






z_willus_d

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 11:16:50 PM »
Well there's a touché well scored.  Nice stuff.  During the 90-100+ temps, how often do you water and how much per watering (per pot).  Just curious.
Thanks for the pics.

containerman

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Re: Why are big pots not recommendable for small trees?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2018, 10:02:59 AM »
Well there's a touché well scored.  Nice stuff.  During the 90-100+ temps, how often do you water and how much per watering (per pot).  Just curious.
Thanks for the pics.

I'm not scientific about watering but I do spend 1/2 - 1 hours every morning before work and the same after work in my back yard so I can tell by looking at my trees when they need water. As an example up until the hot weather last weekend I was watering twice a week. But I watered Thursday, Saturday and again on Monday with the 100* weather.

 

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