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Author Topic: what deficiency please?  (Read 1404 times)

laidbackdood

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what deficiency please?
« on: May 30, 2018, 02:15:04 AM »
This leaf is off my lime tree....i suspect its a magnesium deficiency...Am i right please? or is it iron?


Millet

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 10:45:11 AM »
Magnesiiium = in a magnesium deficiency the older leaves lower center portion shows a green delta shape while tips and leaf sides are yellow.

laidbackdood

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 12:09:40 PM »
Thanks Millet......I thought so.........my trees are in very sandy soil......so i will sprinkle some epsom salts around them.

Millet

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 03:12:32 PM »
In citrus, a magnesium deficiency always shows up on the tree's older leaves.  This is because magnesium is a mobile element, capable of moving within the tree,   When the tree's new leaves become deficient in magnesium, the tree "realizes" that the new foliage are much more important to the trees growth and the tree's life span than are the old mature leaves. The tree is in it for the long run.  Therefore, it takes the magnesium out of old mature older leaves and sends it to the new foliage. Therefore it is the older leaves that actually show the deficiency.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 03:14:54 PM by Millet »

Isaac-1

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 05:34:48 PM »
As a person that is also dealing with magnesium deficient soil it is important to keep in mind that the correct Ca, Mg, K ratios as they effect the plants  Magnesium absorption see http://www.extension.umn.edu/agriculture/nutrient-management/soil-and-plant-sampling/soil-cation-ratios/ for an introduction into the concept.     To put it another  way simply adding Mg to soil that is also deficient in Ca and K will not solve the Mg deficiency shown in the leaves as the Mg will not be properly absorbed by the plant.

Also see http://www.cannagardening.com/interactions_between_nutrients
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 05:41:32 PM by Isaac-1 »

Mike T

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 08:54:35 PM »
The ratios suggested to be ideal don't always work in the field and it is part of the broader concept of antogonisms. Creating a deficiency of one nutrient by applying excess of another.
Nutrient in Excess            Induced Deficiency
NH4, K, Ca, Mg, Na                   K
K and/or Ca                             Mg
Cl                                          NO3, SO4
N                                             K
Ca                                         Mg
Mg                                            Ca
Ca                                              B
PO4                                     Fe, Mn, Zn, or Cu
Fe                                            Mn
Mn                                            Fe
Mo                                             Cu

Millet

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 10:25:27 PM »
I remember Dr. Malcolm Manners writing in a thread on the old forum, that in all his years with citrus, he never seen a citrus tree deficient in calcium.

Mike T

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 11:36:21 PM »


This is a symptom of clacium deficiency in Citrus.

raggashack

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 10:22:37 AM »
1 of my 2 plants, is showing a deficiency right now. i added NPK, Mg and trace elements.

Whenever i added MG it got a little better, but the new growth is still showing deficiency, but the older leaves got greener.

i now added Calcium nitrate, with 26CaO + 14,5N.

If it gets better now i know for myself, that it was either the CaO or the N, but i dont think its the N.

If not i know i have to add even more Mg.

Millet

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 03:42:33 PM »
Mike T, I have never heard nor read that rind split was caused by a calcium deficiency,  Splitting is most common in sweet orange and mandarin cultivars.  Splitting normally results from the failure of the rind  to expand as fast as the interior locules of the fruit.   It is thought to be related to fluctuations in temperature, humidity, soil moisture, and cultural practices including irrigation and nutrition. Splitting of Navel oranges is commonly seen in response to winter rains.

Mike T

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 11:10:43 PM »
Millet,
See below for some extracts on Calcium deficiency in citrus. It is more common in areas where soils are acid and high in Na and aluminium which is common in my area. I had splitting of fruit and a citrus grower said to me don't assume weather and soil moisture issues as calcium is naturally low in my area of the humid tropics. It is not as crazy as you may think and the foliage signs are subtle.


Calcium deficiencies in citrus
There are few visual signs of calcium deficiency in the leaf. Leaves may show interveinal symptoms similar to iron or manganese deficiencies but these are rare. Leaves with calcium levels below 1.6% are deficient, however, trees lack vigor and start defoliating when the leaf calcium level falls below 3%.
Calcium deficient trees are stunted due to poor root development, with dark green foliage. The main impacts of calcium deficiency are root systems that are more susceptible to root diseases and fruit which is more prone to albedo breakdown and splitting.
Calcium (Ca)
A deficiency of calcium in citrus is expressed as a fading of the chlorophyll along the leaf margins and between the main veins during the winter months. Small necrotic (dead) spots can develop in the faded areas. Calcium deficiency produces small, thickened leaves and causes loss of vigor, thinning of foliage and decreased fruit production. Severely deficient trees can develop twig dieback and multiple bud growth of new leaves. Trees grown under Ca deficiency produce undersized and misshapen fruit with shriveled juice vesicles. Fruit from Ca-deficient trees are slightly lower in juice content but higher in soluble solids and acids.
Calcium deficiency usually occurs on acidic soils where native Ca has leached. Continuous use of ammonium-containing fertilizer, particularly ammonium sulfate, accelerates Ca loss from soils. Use of muriate of potash and sulfur cause similar losses of soil Ca. Liming the soil not only neutralizes soil acidity but also supplies available Ca. Calcium deficiency can also occur in highly saline soils due to the excessive sodium (Na) concentration. Under such a situation, gypsum can correct the deficiency and reduce the deleterious effect of Na. Calcium deficiency can also be corrected by foliar spraying with a water-soluble Ca source.
Made worst by
Acidic soils. Sandy or light soils (leaching). Acid peat soils. Soils rich in sodium. Soils rich in aluminium. Drought conditions. Fruit high in nitrogen or potassium. Large fruit.

Millet

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 12:57:21 AM »
Well I guess I will amend my above post to:  peel splitting can be caused by sever calcium deficiency in very RARE conditions.  However, Fruit splitting occurs the world over in areas of good calcium soils.   Thanks for the info.

Mike T

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 01:27:11 AM »
It probably just increases how prone fruit are to splitting when the major environmental causes are in play. My point originally was that it can be induced by antagonistic compounds and elements like heavy ammonium use, and even heavy potash use in acid soils and it isn't easy to detect. Anyway sorry for the side track.

Millet

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 10:53:46 AM »
Mike, by the way, what type of orange was it in your picture, was it a Navel orange?

Mike T

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Re: what deficiency please?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 03:45:33 AM »
The orange pic was lifted from an article on calcium deficiency in citrus but it wasn't labelled.

 

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