Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?  (Read 1332 times)

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
Recently I bought a few yellow dragon fruits from the store.  The sticker label on the fruit had the company name as "Organpit" - Palora-Morona Santiago - Ecuador.  So, I visited their website and a quick search showed this fruit mentioned as Hylocereus triangularis.
http://www.organpit.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8

I thought these were referred by Latin name either Selenicereus megalanthus or Hylocereus megalanthus. 

So, which is correct?  I didn't take photos of the fruit, but this is how it looked.







These pictures are from the company website for reference.

ricshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
    • USA, Southern California, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • ricshaw805 YouTube Channel
Good question!  I asked one of my fluent Spanish speaking Dragon Fruit growing friends for help.

So_Cal_Mike

  • Zone 10a
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Hmmm... I have seedlings going from these fruits that I bought here in L.A., same company from Ecuador. As far as I know they are Selenicereus megalanthus.
I never thought about looking at their site. Now I’m wondering what I have.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:05:54 PM by So_Cal_Mike »
[size=85]Sunset Zone: 21 • USDA Zone: 10a • AHS Heat Zone: 6-7[/size]

pineislander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
    • Bokeelia, FL
    • View Profile
IUCN lists H. triangularis as a Caribbean species with red fruit.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/152652/0

I think the company website made an error.

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
So, can I safely assume it's Hylocereus megalanthus?  Also, how long will it take from seed to fruit?

pineislander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
    • Bokeelia, FL
    • View Profile
I think most here are calling the plant Selenecereus Megalanthus. Palora is the Canton -Morona Santiago is the main Province for Pitahaya production. I don't know how long a seed grown plant would take to bear in Tamil Nadu but would guess at least more than a year.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7324
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
The pictured one is not H.megalanthus or a typical one at least which is the small common yellow from northern South America. The plant and fruit look different. The fruit are rounder ,larger and have fewer thorns. It gets called Ecuadorian yellow. Whether it is undescribed, has a name that isn't in general circulation yet or is a subspecies of the common yellow perhaps, doesn't look like it has been pinned down. They flower in 2 years from seed. Did they taste like the small yellow?

So_Cal_Mike

  • Zone 10a
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
I’ve only tasted this one...
it was very sweet (but flavor could be attributed to the climate it was grown in) with larger seeds than the standard white and red Hylocereus dragon fruit that I grow.

Here are the seedlings.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 05:03:20 PM by So_Cal_Mike »
[size=85]Sunset Zone: 21 • USDA Zone: 10a • AHS Heat Zone: 6-7[/size]

pineislander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
    • Bokeelia, FL
    • View Profile
They specialize in this fruit around Palora. They appear to have fewer thorns and larger sizes because they are sorted out for size before exporting. Here are some videos describing what they do. You can see the fruit in field, before sorting, and packed/selected for export. No doubt they have quality productive selections.
 
This image from the video shows you the range of sizes the crop is actually producing before quality control, they are encouraging the best quality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT2--pYkJPY

Video called "La producción ecológica de la Pitahaya en Palora con miras a mercados extranjeros."
"Ecological Production of Pitahaya in Palora looking towards foreign markets".

They speak of seeking Global GAP certification, understanding BMP (Best Management Practices), and understand that they need to maintain a reputation for quality. Their Ministry of Agriculture officials state that they are in a "Lucha" ( Fight ) for millions of dollars. They are aware that the fruit sells for $2-3 in the US markets. They process undersized fruits into value added products, and seek to industrialize the industry in their area. They are educating their farmers to compete in the global export market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFAYKrRT148

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wg4ehznsvc











Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7324
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
I have the standard yellow megalanthus and grow the Ecuadorian yellow also from seeds from Jim West. I notices the plants themselves have a different form with the Ecuadorian being thicker and a little less spikey. My friend commented on the Ecuadorian flowers being quite divergent and different from the standard yellows as well as from all his other dragonfruit. The seeds are a good deal bigger than those of other dragonfruit also.

ricshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
    • USA, Southern California, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • ricshaw805 YouTube Channel
Good question!  I asked one of my fluent Spanish speaking Dragon Fruit growing friends for help.

This was the best answer:

Dear Richard,
If I am not wrong, the consensual name for all the formerly called "Selenicereus megalanthus" is, since 2003, Hylocereus megalanthus ( its genetic proximity to the genus Hylocereus is much greater than with the genus Selenicereus).
Hylocereus triangularis, formerly cereus triangularis, or cactus triangularis, is an old name for hylocereus that has been widely applied in Latin America, France and Spain, especially to the yellow pitaya, but also to other clones of almost any subspecies (including the undatus). Britton et Rose designates as Hylocereus triangularis a subspecies of Jamaica that coincides descriptively with what is currently agreed Hylocereus trigonus.
Anyhow, taxonomy is a young science, and sometimes is a bit arbitrary... Maybe we need a botanist in the group :_).
In relation to Palora, it is a natural ecotype captured by Félix Zabala Haro in the jungle of the same canton (Morona Santiago province), and is very close to another yellow pitaya ecotype called, in Ecuador, "Pichincha" that is more similar to the Colombian pitaya but more productive and resistant to diseases. From northern Ecuador to northern Perú there are who knows how many wild ecotypes still to "domesticate". Many of them are spontaneous Megalanthus hybrids or retrohybrids with economic potential...
My theory about Palora is that it is a spontaneous retrohybrid. The slight wax coverage of the stems, its greater resistance and habit of vigorous growth, and its morphological similirarity makes me think that has yellow costaricensis genetics (less known but morphologically very similar to Cebra, orejona, etc).
When INTA starts its program of sellection of superior Costaricensis, the yellow clone in the essay was discarded in the process of selection because it loses the production trial (the winners were Cebra, Orejona, Lisa, Rosa and San Ignacio). But the yellow costaricensis are not difficult to find in Central America. And due to the total genetic compatibility, the migration of genes with the ability to improve the vigor and sun resistance of the megalanthus does not seem impossible.
Anyhow, the megalanthus are still a quite unknown genetic group. Probably, in the coming years, new megalanthus will emerge in the markets. Peru has yellow and red giants, Brazil has a yellow giant, etc...
Pitayaworld is an exciting universe ....
Ps: I'm sorry my english
Bauernhoff Drachenfrucht

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7324
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Now that is a great description. I think that like Citrus the taxonomy principles that apply to defining genera, species and subspecies are out the window. They are already divided into more species and different genera when they probably should be lumped on genetic grounds. The species cross freely and produce fertile young as do genera but it is convenient for differentiating if they are divided more on phenotypic differences.

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
I am having trouble germinating these seeds.  I simply sowed them in potting mix.  It's more than 3 weeks now, and yet no signs of germination. 

Another batch of dried seeds, I soaked overnight and the outer jelly-like coating bloated up as in the picture.  Will removing this coating speed up germination or will it be a hindrance? 


FamilyJ

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
I am having trouble germinating these seeds.  I simply sowed them in potting mix.  It's more than 3 weeks now, and yet no signs of germination. 

Another batch of dried seeds, I soaked overnight and the outer jelly-like coating bloated up as in the picture.  Will removing this coating speed up germination or will it be a hindrance? 


I always removed and it felt like it speeds it up

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
I always removed and it felt like it speeds it up

Thanks for that reply, FamilyJ.  I asked this question a couple of times and even started a thread on this topic, but got no replies so far.  I will remove the coat, soak for another day and then sow.  BTW, which ones have you grown?  The common red ones or these yellow?

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
Ok.  So, finally some of the seeds I planted initially have germinated about 10 days back.  But, again a minor problem.  So far, these germinated seedlings have not passed the primary leaves stages.  Still waiting for spiny succulent stem.  Any reason for this slow progress? 



PS: You can see some tiny spines on the largest seedling in the picture, but that's it.  It seems very slow to grow :(

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4632
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Dragonfruit seedlings, especially the Yellow dragon are extremely slow growing in its juvenile phase. Once they reach about 3-6 inches, they start growing much faster.

Many of my Giant Yellow S\H Megalanthus seedlings started out with one branch but once they start gaining some size, they will form multiple branches at the base of the plant. I thinned out several of my seedlings to a few branches which seems to have enabled the remaining branches to grow at a faster rate.

Simon

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4632
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
If you don’t fertilize or properly water the seedlings, they can take a year or longer to grow just a few inches. Here’s a picture of a giant Yellow Megalanthus plant that I didn’t thin, rarely fertilized and hardly watered. This is a Peruvian strain and the parent Fruit was about 1 pound. I also grow the Ecuadorian strain. This seedling is about 3 years old!



If you’re in a more Tropical area, I’m sure you can get it to fruit in 2-3 years from seed but in a subtropical climate, I’m guessing it will take 4-5 years unless you graft the seedlings like what Brad( Spaugh) and I are doing.

Here’s a giant Yellow plant that was fertilized and watered properly.





Simon

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
15 days since my last message.  Still no signs of any spiny succulent stem  :'( :'( :'( 

I had given a few seeds to someone.  He's got his pot in direct sun.  His seeds germinated, but the growth rate of his seedlings are far slower compared to mine.  I had them on the window sill where there was no direct sun.  For the past 1 week, I have moved them to a position where the pot get at least 4 hours of direct sunlight.  As for fertilizer, I fed them with some liquid seaweed based fertilizer. 

A few questions:
1) Should they be in direct sun or shade? 
2) What type of fertilizer to use?


guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
Re: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 01:36:39 PM »
Almost a month since my last post.  Seem very slow to grow compared to H. undatus :(



FamilyJ

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • South Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2018, 07:14:05 PM »
I always removed and it felt like it speeds it up

Thanks for that reply, FamilyJ.  I asked this question a couple of times and even started a thread on this topic, but got no replies so far.  I will remove the coat, soak for another day and then sow.  BTW, which ones have you grown?  The common red ones or these yellow?
I have done many different ones including the yellow
Sorry have been busy and havent been on here as much




Jct

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Zone 10b
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2018, 02:55:59 PM »
Direct sunlight for the seedlings.  If they are indoors, don't let them brush up against the window as they grow taller or the sun will burn them.  If they haven't been exposed to direct sunlight, I'd slowly aclimatize them to it. 
LaVerne Manila Mango; Pixie Crunch, Honeycrisp & Gala Apple Trees; Violette De Bordeaux & Black Mission Fig; Santa Rosa Plum & Snow Queen Nectarine; Nagami Kumquat, Pixie Tangerine, Lemon, Australian Finger Lime & Washington Navel Citrus; White & Red Dragon Fruit; Miracle Berry Plant

JandJPalms

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13
    • Kilauea, Kauai HI Z11
    • View Profile
Re: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2018, 06:57:14 PM »
I bought some seeds from Dragonfruit101 on this forum a couple of months ago.  He suggested I water them (once sprouted) with club soda, as it helps to aerate the soil and provide the seedlings with minerals.  I can't really tell one way or another, but I thought I'd mention it to you all.  - Jen

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
Re: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2018, 01:31:44 PM »
I had given some seeds to a cousin.  His seedlings are short and stout whereas mine are tall and slender.  Mine have been getting direct sunlight for about 6-7 hours daily.  So, it's definitely not due to the light. Should I be concerned about the tall growth?

Direct sunlight for the seedlings.  If they are indoors, don't let them brush up against the window as they grow taller or the sun will burn them.  If they haven't been exposed to direct sunlight, I'd slowly aclimatize them to it.

guardian123abc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
    • India, Chennai 13°N 80°E Köppen: Aw Elevation 6 m (20 ft)
    • View Profile
Re: Yellow dragon fruit - Hylocereus triangularis or Hylocereus megalanthus?
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2018, 01:37:44 PM »
Jen, water the soil or seedlings with soda?  Did you try it?  How old are your seedlings now?

I bought some seeds from Dragonfruit101 on this forum a couple of months ago.  He suggested I water them (once sprouted) with club soda, as it helps to aerate the soil and provide the seedlings with minerals.  I can't really tell one way or another, but I thought I'd mention it to you all.  - Jen

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers