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Author Topic: For the Cerrado fruit lovers  (Read 11191 times)

fruitlovers

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2012, 08:35:03 PM »
Luc, you bought the book in Brazil?
Adam, with your plant interests i suggest a crash course in Portuguese. Actually i should do the same thing myself!

If you can read Spanish, you can understand 90% of Portuguese . I download Brazilian botanical articles all the time. It's EASY for Spanish speakers!

Yes that's true. But surprisingly their spoken language i was lucky if i got 5% of what they were saying. Their pronounciation is completely different! Big mistake if you think you will get by with spanish in a portuguese (or italian) speaking country!

When I was in Portugal I noticed something weird, people understood me fine when I spoke to them in Spanish, but I didn't understand a word that was said to me

That;s because Portugal borders Spain, and they are probably used to lots of Spanish tourists. You won't have such luck in Brazil!

Brazilian Portuguese is the easiest language to learn for a Spanish speaker -  I minor in Portuguese in college. I had a very difficult time understanding fellow students from Portugal and Azores. Rioplatense Spanish( voseo) has Portuguese influence.... didn't you say you were born in Buenos Aires???

Yes i did. But there is extremely little influence of portuguese in Argentinian spanish, and vice versa for influence in Brazil. Argentina is much more influenced in its Spanish language by its european settlers, mostly Italians and Spaniards. Argentina and Brazil though they share a border are really worlds apart in many ways.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 08:56:33 PM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2012, 08:46:41 PM »
Surprisingly and good that not all Cerrado plants have " the curse " , Alibertia edulis grows and fruits well but then again this one is not exclusive to the Cerrado .
In other rare fruit groups we have gone over the list of the real tough ones like , mama cadela , cagaita , mangaba etc....
I trust Adam will do the job and let us know what we are doing wrong ....my guess more coffee grounds to keep these plants happy...??

no! I think sulfur and chelated Fe!

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2012, 08:58:35 PM »
I think best thing to do to overcome these difficulties with cerrado plants is to study the cerrado climate and soils. I also have a difficulty growing these plants. But it's not surprising given our high rainfall and very low rainfall for great part of the year in the cerrado. Also cerrado soils are very sandy. Very different from here.
Oscar

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2012, 01:05:21 AM »
Pouteria torta (smaller plant, larger pot, greener leaves)

and pouteria ramiflora (bigger leaves and more  yellow, in smaller pot)


these have been super slow growing, and the P. torta sent down a tap root like no ones business, but only grew an inch up top.

I hope these make it through winter, and grow fast next year.  I'd like to taste these one day.




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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2012, 03:52:59 PM »
Luc, you bought the book in Brazil?
Adam, with your plant interests i suggest a crash course in Portuguese. Actually i should do the same thing myself!

If you can read Spanish, you can understand 90% of Portuguese . I download Brazilian botanical articles all the time. It's EASY for Spanish speakers!

Yes that's true. But surprisingly their spoken language i was lucky if i got 5% of what they were saying. Their pronounciation is completely different! Big mistake if you think you will get by with spanish in a portuguese (or italian) speaking country!

When I was in Portugal I noticed something weird, people understood me fine when I spoke to them in Spanish, but I didn't understand a word that was said to me

That;s because Portugal borders Spain, and they are probably used to lots of Spanish tourists. You won't have such luck in Brazil!

Brazilian Portuguese is the easiest language to learn for a Spanish speaker -  I minor in Portuguese in college. I had a very difficult time understanding fellow students from Portugal and Azores. Rioplatense Spanish( voseo) has Portuguese influence.... didn't you say you were born in Buenos Aires???

JF. I would expect Galician influence to be more likely.
But Galician and Portuguese are even closer between them than to Spanish. Galician sounds a bit like Portuguese words spoken with a Spanish accent.
Sérgio Duarte
Algarve, Portugal

--Vale sempre a pena, quando a alma não é pequena!

siafu

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2012, 04:13:29 PM »
Saifu,

What is this "cerrado curse" you speak of?

Decline in the fall, death by spring type of thing?

I believe the "Cerrado curse" was coined by Luc.

For me, it is generic term for saying that most Cerrado plants seem doomed to die sooner or later when grown outside their range.
Rather than dying from cold, they have a very narrow tolerance for soil and water parameters outside their confort zone.

My rarefruit fever as abated over the years, and I'm not trying every species as fervently as I used to, but my experiments
with Annona crassifolia and Duguetia lanceolata have improved with each try.

Overall, the challenge seems to keep them dry in the winter. Provide quite acidic soil that is very fast draining.  And use pure rain water.

The first precludes me from growing them outside in my zone, because winter is our rainy season. Most years, rain is scarse and concentrated on just
a few episodes, so it is difficult to store. And I cannot quite find how to recreate soil that is acidic and fast draining. Sand alone does not seem to cut it.
It would have to be some sort of the red laterite soil, which is common in tropical regions.

I seem to recall reading that Cerrado soils is so acidic that it it very rich in aluminium, to the point that it is poisonous to non native plants.
I have wondered if they might need the aluminium, besides the low pH. But it has been a while since I have researched the subject, so take that
with a grain of salt...


Sérgio Duarte
Algarve, Portugal

--Vale sempre a pena, quando a alma não é pequena!

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2012, 04:29:53 PM »
Saifu.

thanks for the detailed explanation,and great info.

I hope to break the spell by using a fast draining mix, and chelated Fe, and rain water...and sulfur.

and of course everything I grow stays in a container.


luc

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2012, 05:16:07 PM »
anyone growing eugenia dysenterica?

or anacardiaceae humile?

I want to try anacardiaceae humile in a pot.

E. disenterica died .

A. humile doing great , has been fruiting for 3 years
Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2012, 06:52:59 PM »
Luc, you bought the book in Brazil?
Adam, with your plant interests i suggest a crash course in Portuguese. Actually i should do the same thing myself!

If you can read Spanish, you can understand 90% of Portuguese . I download Brazilian botanical articles all the time. It's EASY for Spanish speakers!

Yes that's true. But surprisingly their spoken language i was lucky if i got 5% of what they were saying. Their pronounciation is completely different! Big mistake if you think you will get by with spanish in a portuguese (or italian) speaking country!

When I was in Portugal I noticed something weird, people understood me fine when I spoke to them in Spanish, but I didn't understand a word that was said to me

That;s because Portugal borders Spain, and they are probably used to lots of Spanish tourists. You won't have such luck in Brazil!

Brazilian Portuguese is the easiest language to learn for a Spanish speaker -  I minor in Portuguese in college. I had a very difficult time understanding fellow students from Portugal and Azores. Rioplatense Spanish( voseo) has Portuguese influence.... didn't you say you were born in Buenos Aires???

JF. I would expect Galician influence to be more likely.
But Galician and Portuguese are even closer between them than to Spanish. Galician sounds a bit like Portuguese words spoken with a Spanish accent.

Wouldn't the influence be Castillian? That is what they call the language there: Castellano.
Oscar

siafu

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2012, 07:12:58 PM »
Luc, you bought the book in Brazil?
Adam, with your plant interests i suggest a crash course in Portuguese. Actually i should do the same thing myself!

If you can read Spanish, you can understand 90% of Portuguese . I download Brazilian botanical articles all the time. It's EASY for Spanish speakers!

Yes that's true. But surprisingly their spoken language i was lucky if i got 5% of what they were saying. Their pronounciation is completely different! Big mistake if you think you will get by with spanish in a portuguese (or italian) speaking country!

When I was in Portugal I noticed something weird, people understood me fine when I spoke to them in Spanish, but I didn't understand a word that was said to me

That;s because Portugal borders Spain, and they are probably used to lots of Spanish tourists. You won't have such luck in Brazil!

Brazilian Portuguese is the easiest language to learn for a Spanish speaker -  I minor in Portuguese in college. I had a very difficult time understanding fellow students from Portugal and Azores. Rioplatense Spanish( voseo) has Portuguese influence.... didn't you say you were born in Buenos Aires???

JF. I would expect Galician influence to be more likely.
But Galician and Portuguese are even closer between them than to Spanish. Galician sounds a bit like Portuguese words spoken with a Spanish accent.

Wouldn't the influence be Castillian? That is what they call the language there: Castellano.

Yes, Spanish = Castillian/Castellano, but I would not say English was influenced by English.

The reason I say Galician is because over the centuries, many Galicians settled specific parts of the Spanish Empire.
If I recall correctly, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Argentina received many Galician settlers. I'd think the number of Portuguese
the went to Argentina is too small and arrived too late to influence the local language...
 
Maybe Felipe could shed some clues. If the Canary Islands are an example, they seem to use there some words that are
not common in continental Spanish and are either archaic or even influenced by Portuguese/Galician.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 07:52:35 PM by siafu »
Sérgio Duarte
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--Vale sempre a pena, quando a alma não é pequena!

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2012, 07:31:27 PM »
I thought spanish = espanol, not castellian? Correct me, but i thought castillian is a certain dialect of Spain? If not, then what does castillian really mean? Are you saying it is synanym for espanol?
Oscar

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2012, 07:47:00 PM »
I thought spanish = espanol, not castellian? Correct me, but i thought castillian is a certain dialect of Spain? If not, then what does castillian really mean? Are you saying it is synanym for espanol?

Castillian was/is the language indigenous to the Castile region of Spain. But it is not the only language spoken in Spain, but it is the dominant one. That has to do with the fact that the unification of Spain was brought by the Crown of Castile. Since many colonist that came to the Americas and colonial bureaucrats came from the Castile region of Spain Castillian became the dominant language of the Americas. And since there was no longer a need to distinguish between Castillian and the other languages spoken in Spain like Catalan, Aragonese, Galician or Basque it simply was referred to as Spanish.

Thus, Castillian is Spanish
- David Antonio Garcia

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2012, 02:38:26 AM »
Sergio, thanks for the explanation.
Oscar

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2012, 07:33:19 AM »
And another nice video about Cerrado fruits

Conheça os frutos do Cerrado

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2012, 06:53:57 PM »
Luc, you bought the book in Brazil?
Adam, with your plant interests i suggest a crash course in Portuguese. Actually i should do the same thing myself!

If you can read Spanish, you can understand 90% of Portuguese . I download Brazilian botanical articles all the time. It's EASY for Spanish speakers!

Yes that's true. But surprisingly their spoken language i was lucky if i got 5% of what they were saying. Their pronounciation is completely different! Big mistake if you think you will get by with spanish in a portuguese (or italian) speaking country!

When I was in Portugal I noticed something weird, people understood me fine when I spoke to them in Spanish, but I didn't understand a word that was said to me

That;s because Portugal borders Spain, and they are probably used to lots of Spanish tourists. You won't have such luck in Brazil!

Brazilian Portuguese is the easiest language to learn for a Spanish speaker -  I minor in Portuguese in college. I had a very difficult time understanding fellow students from Portugal and Azores. Rioplatense Spanish( voseo) has Portuguese influence.... didn't you say you were born in Buenos Aires???

Yes i did. But there is extremely little influence of portuguese in Argentinian spanish, and vice versa for influence in Brazil. Argentina is much more influenced in its Spanish language by its european settlers, mostly Italians and Spaniards. Argentina and Brazil though they share a border are really worlds apart in many ways.

Oscar

We are talking about Rioplatense Spanish (el voseo) which was influenced by the languages ​​spoken there before the Spanish arrived.......mainly by the Portuguese and indigenous language (Guarani).

Of course the Argentina dialect is heavily influence by Castellano. It follows its accentuation rules and it's recognize by la Real Academia. I know Argentinos like to boast about being the most European country in Latin American but there is a large indigenous population.


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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2012, 07:02:07 PM »
I thought spanish = espanol, not castellian? Correct me, but i thought castillian is a certain dialect of Spain? If not, then what does castillian really mean? Are you saying it is synanym for espanol?

Castillian was/is the language indigenous to the Castile region of Spain. But it is not the only language spoken in Spain, but it is the dominant one. That has to do with the fact that the unification of Spain was brought by the Crown of Castile. Since many colonist that came to the Americas and colonial bureaucrats came from the Castile region of Spain Castillian became the dominant language of the Americas. And since there was no longer a need to distinguish between Castillian and the other languages spoken in Spain like Catalan, Aragonese, Galician or Basque it simply was referred to as Spanish.

Thus, Castillian is Spanish


Castellano thrived in the new world and REA had no choice but to call it Spanish....of course that's with the Royal seal of approval.


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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2012, 08:05:15 PM »
 you say tomato I say toemahtoe.

you say sirradoe, I say cerrado.

now let's talk about some plants!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 08:58:24 PM by ASaffron »

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2012, 09:21:43 PM »
Our pronunciation (argentinian) is darker than spaniards from Spain, in fact our pronunciation is closer to portuguese speakers ;)

Just to complicate the things...

anyway, I am from Argentina and maybe can understand 30 to 50% what the brazilian people say, and if we talk about text, maybe 90% or so

If someone wants me to translate some brazilian videos, I can do at least a resume

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2012, 09:56:21 PM »


POUTERIA TORTA

lets talk about fruit baby, lets talk about u and me, lets talk about all the good things and the bad things may be. (concerning cerrado sp.  ;D )

fruitlovers

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2012, 10:01:30 PM »
Great shot Adam! That P. torta from cerrado is toughest and slowest of the tortas. All the other subspecies of P. torta are much faster and easier to grow. Surprise, right?  ;)
Oscar

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 10:04:39 PM »
HEY BTW! not my photo!

but it is a great shot!

thanks for assisting with the rerouting of the derail.

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2012, 10:09:32 PM »

Hymenaea stigonocarpa

related to inga


fruitlovers

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2012, 10:10:25 PM »
Our pronunciation (argentinian) is darker than spaniards from Spain, in fact our pronunciation is closer to portuguese speakers ;)

Just to complicate the things...

anyway, I am from Argentina and maybe can understand 30 to 50% what the brazilian people say, and if we talk about text, maybe 90% or so

If someone wants me to translate some brazilian videos, I can do at least a resume

I wish the portuguese videos had subtitles in either english or spanish. I really can't hardly understand most of what they're saying. I guess if you are used to being around Brazilians and their language it gets easier and it's a different story.
Oscar

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2012, 10:17:22 PM »
Oh BTW...after considering that some of these cerrado sp are growing in soils with insane amounts of acidity/metals, etc...I decided to start using some other chelated drenches that are not organic...just to see if the more powerful stuff give these plants a boost.

I got some stuff called Chem Plex Turf and Ornamental Iron and Manganese 12-0-0.

I have a feeling this stuff might give some of these acid loving Brazilian plants a nice boost when they are small or struggling with deficiencies.

This stuff has sulfur in it to...so I'd imagine that helps lower the ph.

I'll let u know how the plants react.

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Re: For the Cerrado fruit lovers
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »
It was a great deal of talking..that I wish I could understand.  It just sounded like she was talking about all of the benefits of the fruits, and trying to encourage people to appreciate the cerrado and its treasures.

Our pronunciation (argentinian) is darker than spaniards from Spain, in fact our pronunciation is closer to portuguese speakers ;)

Just to complicate the things...

anyway, I am from Argentina and maybe can understand 30 to 50% what the brazilian people say, and if we talk about text, maybe 90% or so

If someone wants me to translate some brazilian videos, I can do at least a resume

I wish the portuguese videos had subtitles in either english or spanish. I really can't hardly understand most of what they're saying. I guess if you are used to being around Brazilians and their language it gets easier and it's a different story.

 

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