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Author Topic: Rollinia Problems  (Read 9758 times)

Mr. Clean

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Rollinia Problems
« on: September 30, 2012, 07:44:58 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 02:13:06 PM by Mr. Clean »
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cbss_daviefl

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 08:19:06 PM »
Spider mites is my guess.  Organicide or neem oil show that they can take care of them.
Brandon

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 09:01:50 PM »
Yes probably spider mites. They hate high moisture, so keep the plants wet. Give the leaves a frequent shot with the hose.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 09:26:39 PM »
cbss_daviefl is right
maybe you can see them traveling where the web is thin
Oscar do not need my approval but I second his water hose suggestion
Just because it works


fruitlovers

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 09:40:13 PM »
Warning: mites can be very difficult to get rid off once they have set up house. The abundant webbing shows you already have high population. So you need to really keep after them with sprays and hosing off.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 01:51:54 AM »
I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem and is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Mr. Clean

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 08:02:40 AM »
Thank you for your insights; I will start spraying Neelam Oil.
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Mr. Clean

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 08:42:12 AM »
I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem and is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Sorry to hear about the doggy damage to your tree.  I learned not to use a retractible leash with my dog in my yard; he wraped the leash around a small mango tree and pulled it down.  I've never eaten a Rollinia fruit, so I'm looking forward to it someday. 
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Guanabanus

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2012, 10:17:04 AM »
Yes, Water-Sprayed-Hard-to-the-Undersides-of -Leaves, is a pesticide, and, so far, you don't need to buy labeled water to use! 

First, while it is dry, you might want to manually brush off most of the webbing.

Mix soap with your neem oil.
Har

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 10:19:38 AM »
I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem ainnd is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Sorry to hear about the doggy damage to your tree.  I learned not to use a retractible leash with my dog in my yard; he wraped the leash around a small mango tree and pulled it down.  I've never eaten a Rollinia fruit, so I'm looking forward to it someday.
I hope you got a good cultivar of Rollinia cause otherwise you will waste a lot of time, effort and space.  I am sure there are good ones though the two I have tried have been off putting taste wise with the texture of, well, snot for a better term.
- Rob

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2012, 10:28:24 AM »
I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem ainnd is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Sorry to hear about the doggy damage to your tree.  I learned not to use a retractible leash with my dog in my yard; he wraped the leash around a small mango tree and pulled it down.  I've never eaten a Rollinia fruit, so I'm looking forward to it someday.
I hope you got a good cultivar of Rollinia cause otherwise you will waste a lot of time, effort and space.  I am sure there are good ones though the two I have tried have been off putting taste wise with the texture of, well, snot for a better term.

If its the one he purchased from me its a seedling of a known good fruiting tree from Gary Zill.  Are there any known grafted varieties available for sale in South Florida?

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2012, 10:59:37 AM »
Most of these snotty textured fruits that have an off putting flavor, were eaten too late.

You must harvest and consume the fruit while still slightly firm and green.

This changes the story completely.  I've eaten fruits from the same tree, and the ones allowed to turn completely yellow were off putting and mushy.

I have got a grafted rollinia (I'm not quite sure of the source for the tree), but the leaves look quite different than the trees I've got flowering now.

I think there definitely are varieties out there, just not many grafting them.

Don't worry too much about getting a tasty fruited tree, all of the trees I've got fruits from tasted great.  Just plant a seed from a tasty fruit, and you should end up with something quite similar.



I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem ainnd is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Sorry to hear about the doggy damage to your tree.  I learned not to use a retractible leash with my dog in my yard; he wraped the leash around a small mango tree and pulled it down.  I've never eaten a Rollinia fruit, so I'm looking forward to it someday.
I hope you got a good cultivar of Rollinia cause otherwise you will waste a lot of time, effort and space.  I am sure there are good ones though the two I have tried have been off putting taste wise with the texture of, well, snot for a better term.

terejiguete

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2012, 02:20:10 PM »
hello


abemectina is very good for mites in general. even allowed in avocado against crystal spider, and can not forget the sulfur.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 02:22:31 PM by terejiguete »

Guanabanus

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2012, 02:53:45 PM »
Here at least, Biriba (Rollinia deliciosa/mucosa) fruits twice a year.  If the winter crop is exposed to a lot of cold and considerable defoliation of the tree, the fruit probably  won't be fit to eat--- bitter and slimy.

Summer fruits are normally delicious.
Har

terejiguete

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2012, 05:23:49 PM »
Here at least, Biriba (Rollinia deliciosa/mucosa) fruits twice a year.  If the winter crop is exposed to a lot of cold and considerable defoliation of the tree, the fruit probably  won't be fit to eat--- bitter and slimy.

Summer fruits are normally delicious.


in my area so with anonna muricata, winter fruit fails to ripen

fruitlovers

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2012, 06:38:28 PM »
Most of these snotty textured fruits that have an off putting flavor, were eaten too late.

You must harvest and consume the fruit while still slightly firm and green.

This changes the story completely.  I've eaten fruits from the same tree, and the ones allowed to turn completely yellow were off putting and mushy.

I have got a grafted rollinia (I'm not quite sure of the source for the tree), but the leaves look quite different than the trees I've got flowering now.

I think there definitely are varieties out there, just not many grafting them.

Don't worry too much about getting a tasty fruited tree, all of the trees I've got fruits from tasted great.  Just plant a seed from a tasty fruit, and you should end up with something quite similar.



I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem ainnd is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Sorry to hear about the doggy damage to your tree.  I learned not to use a retractible leash with my dog in my yard; he wraped the leash around a small mango tree and pulled it down.  I've never eaten a Rollinia fruit, so I'm looking forward to it someday.
I hope you got a good cultivar of Rollinia cause otherwise you will waste a lot of time, effort and space.  I am sure there are good ones though the two I have tried have been off putting taste wise with the texture of, well, snot for a better term.

Adam is right. Degree of ripeness will change the texture. I like them even when fully ripe, but at fully ripe stage i refrigerate them, and that also helps to firm up the texture. This is one fruit i like better chilled.
Rob, as far as i know, there are no rollinia cultivars in Florida. All the nurseries are starting plants from seed. That is true here also. Though some people name their seedling trees this is pretty meaningless when they go about propagating that tree by seed.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2012, 06:47:22 PM »
 Oscar,

they have varieties at fruit and spice park...check the inventory list of their species.

some were even developed in FL.

I have a grafted tree with unique leaves, I bought from a FL nursery (don't know the original grower, the tree was bought wholesale and retailed to me)


fruitlovers

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2012, 06:56:56 PM »
Oscar,

they have varieties at fruit and spice park...check the inventory list of their species.

some were even developed in FL.

I have a grafted tree with unique leaves, I bought from a FL nursery (don't know the original grower, the tree was bought wholesale and retailed to me)

Adam, where is the F&S plant list? I know it used to be on their website, but they seem to have removed that page?
Just to clarify, in my opinion, just because a tree is grafted does not magically turn it into a new cultivar. Something has to be done to show that this plant is really superior in some way. Otherwise every grafted tree would suddenly turn into a new culitvar. But this does seem to happen in Florida with mangos.  ::) :o
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2012, 06:57:08 PM »
Of the two I had, one I definitely let sit too long after picking, it got too soft and tasted blah and texture was horrible.  The second one I had was picked in the evening, refrigerated and eaten later that night. texture was firmer though still not to MY liking but the taste was still not good IMO.  Not sure how the first one was picked but I picked the second one when coloration was solid yellow.  Tips turned brown within 30 minutes or so.  So was the second one I had let get too ripe on the tree and actually lost some of its "good" flavor?

- Rob

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2012, 07:03:15 PM »
Oscar,

they have varieties at fruit and spice park...check the inventory list of their species.

some were even developed in FL.

I have a grafted tree with unique leaves, I bought from a FL nursery (don't know the original grower, the tree was bought wholesale and retailed to me)

Adam, where is the F&S plant list? I know it used to be on their website, but they seem to have removed that page?
Just to clarify, in my opinion, just because a tree is grafted does not magically turn it into a new cultivar. Something has to be done to show that this plant is really superior in some way. Otherwise every grafted tree would suddenly turn into a new culitvar. But this does seem to happen in Florida with mangos.  ::) :o
Oscar - if you take a seed from any type of fruit and plant it out (call it "Plant A").  Say it is good and something one wants to reproduce.  You take a cutting and graft it to say a seedling rootstock.  You grow that out and the tree (growth and fruit characteristics) off of the grafted tree match Plant A.  You graft off of the grafted tree this time and again, results match Plant A.  Since it is not technically identical to anything else since it is a graft from a seedling...wouldn't that technically qualify for a plant that could be named and deemed a new cultivar?
- Rob

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2012, 07:05:04 PM »
Of the two I had, one I definitely let sit too long after picking, it got too soft and tasted blah and texture was horrible.  The second one I had was picked in the evening, refrigerated and eaten later that night. texture was firmer though still not to MY liking but the taste was still not good IMO.  Not sure how the first one was picked but I picked the second one when coloration was solid yellow.  Tips turned brown within 30 minutes or so.  So was the second one I had let get too ripe on the tree and actually lost some of its "good" flavor?

It's not a fruit to everyone's liking. Personally i really love them. But i notice that i have to be in the right mood to eat them. I can also hate them if i'm not in the mood for one. So can change from one eating experience to the next. Don't give up on it.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2012, 07:10:38 PM »
I am envious! Lol

Rollinia plants are next to impossible to find in california.. I was lucky enough to purchase a seedling from a friend.. unfortunately.. I damaged it while playing ball with my  dog..  OOPS... but it has budded out from the broken stem and is making a recovery.. thankfully..

I had also ordered over 20  Rollinia seeds. Only one Germinated I'm calling it Lucky Rollinia.. the rest were moldy duds!!...

Rollinia seeds need to be planted within a week of picking! 
FloridaGreenMan

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2012, 07:21:01 PM »
Rollinia seeds will get moldy if you're not thoroughly careful to remove every little bit of pulp from around the seeds. If you do remove it all and place seeds in zip lock with sp. moss then they will just start to germinate instead of molding. Same is true of rambutans.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2012, 08:58:46 PM »
Wow a lot of responses since last night.

I've learned a lot about rollinia seeds.. I soaked all of the ones I attempted to germinate in a bleach solution for a few days.  I've purchased closer to 30 seeds... all molded and were duds except one... The one I got to germinate was from a batch ordered from top tropicals. I inquired about the source  of the seeds and was only told they were from India.  Lord only knows how old they are.. I know with fresh cherimoya seeds i get a 90 percent germination rate with much more vigorous plants.. this rollinia was germinating in say.. may... and it's only now starting to take off at maybe 4 inches tall.. in comparison with the fresh cherimoya seeds i planted  around the same time are now for the most part at least 1 to 2 feet tall! big difference in vigor!  It's very hard to source fresh rollinia seeds!  As some of you mentioned.. cleaning the seeds after havesting from the fruit is the most important thing.. with all the cherimoya seeds I save I clean them thoroughly and soak in diluted bleach solution before drying and storing.. they have a great germination rate  from my experience and the feedback I've given people.. Most purchased seeds still have fruit residue on them though!  >:(


My "Lucky" Rollinia seedling
 

Mr. Clean

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2012, 09:17:49 PM »

If its the one he purchased from me its a seedling of a known good fruiting tree from Gary Zill.  Are there any known grafted varieties available for sale in South Florida?

Yes, it is the one I got from you; about 70% of my trees came from you. 
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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2012, 02:01:10 AM »
Californiatropicals, you can't really very well comapre storing rollinia and cherimoya seeds. Rollinia seeds are recalcitrant, ie have to be stored moist. Whereas cherimoya seeds can be dried and stored for a very long time. So a tiny bit of pulp on cherimoya after totally dry is not as big of a problem as a tiny bit of sweet pulp on rollinia seeds that will spoil the whole batch. They're like 2 totally different animals.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2012, 04:47:00 AM »
I think freshness or age of the seed would be a better indicator of germination rate.
The seeds I received were all dry and lord only knows how many years old but I still managed to germinate at least one. I won't truly know until I have access to fresh rollinia seeds and am given the opportunity to store some but I do consider them to be like other annona seeds.

 
Californiatropicals, you can't really very well comapre storing rollinia and cherimoya seeds. Rollinia seeds are recalcitrant, ie have to be stored moist. Whereas cherimoya seeds can be dried and stored for a very long time. So a tiny bit of pulp on cherimoya after totally dry is not as big of a problem as a tiny bit of sweet pulp on rollinia seeds that will spoil the whole batch. They're like 2 totally different animals.

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2012, 05:21:21 AM »
I think freshness or age of the seed would be a better indicator of germination rate.
The seeds I received were all dry and lord only knows how many years old but I still managed to germinate at least one. I won't truly know until I have access to fresh rollinia seeds and am given the opportunity to store some but I do consider them to be like other annona seeds.

 
Californiatropicals, you can't really very well comapre storing rollinia and cherimoya seeds. Rollinia seeds are recalcitrant, ie have to be stored moist. Whereas cherimoya seeds can be dried and stored for a very long time. So a tiny bit of pulp on cherimoya after totally dry is not as big of a problem as a tiny bit of sweet pulp on rollinia seeds that will spoil the whole batch. They're like 2 totally different animals.

If the rollinia seeds you received were years old they wouldn't have germinated. If you store rollinia seeds correctly you get 100% germination, or very close to it. I sell these seeds all the time. I also plant them myself, and have mature fruiting trees.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2012, 12:28:48 AM »
Rollinia mucosa/deliciosa seeds do not keep.  Some of the other Rollinia species probably do keep, but I have not tested that.
Har

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2012, 12:44:28 AM »
The other strange thing is that Caltropicals says the rollinia seeds came from India. I've never seen a rollinia fruit there. I doubt this is true.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 11:38:38 AM »
You're quoting CAtropicals quoting TopTrop? 

The other strange thing is that Caltropicals says the rollinia seeds came from India. I've never seen a rollinia fruit there. I doubt this is true.
Tim

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 07:10:52 PM »
You're quoting CAtropicals quoting TopTrop? 

The other strange thing is that Caltropicals says the rollinia seeds came from India. I've never seen a rollinia fruit there. I doubt this is true.

Yeah, i know Tim. I was trying to tell Caltropicals not to believe it!
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 11:25:47 PM »
 That is what  I was told  when I sent an inquiry to top tropicals about where the rollinia seeds were from. I sent an inquiry because of the  zero germination I got on rollinia from other sources.  Chances are that the person who responded didn't really know the source of the rollinia seeds. All I know is that I ordered 20 + seeds, they came dry, and only this one germinated.  I know the rollinia seedling I have is very interesting.. It doesn't have a sweet smell to it like cherimoya leaves do it actually has an offensive odor.. lol Much like paw paw leaves..   The sour sop seedlings I grew ( from Florida provided seeds) smells somewhat like the rollinia, However the offensive fragrance is less potent..  ;D

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2012, 12:35:31 AM »
Even very fresh rollinia seeds if packed dry will not stay fresh for very long. Main mistake was not to pack them in moist medium. Rollinia seeds are very different than what you are used to: soursop, atemoya, cherimoya. Those will all keep fine dry for very long time.
Oscar

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2012, 07:45:38 AM »
Quote
Rollinia mucosa/deliciosa seeds do not keep.  Some of the other Rollinia species probably do keep, but I have not tested that.


Guanabanus, I believe you are right, probably under the name Rollinia mucosa
few Rollinia species seeds are distributed, wrongfully but maybe not deliberately

That topic made me bit curious, To set an experiment I've purchased today
seeds from honest seller in Europe, His seeds came from source I know
but won't mention neither of them not to damage anyone.
The seeds stock is few months old and described as Rollinia deliciosa
According to the seller no one complained about bad seeds
And for my knowledge he wont risk his reputation just to catch few gullible buyers

If and When the seeds arrive I'll weight and measure them before planting few.
My phone camera is old but I'll try to take few photos as well
And inform if something interesting happen

There is surely a certain degree of confusion
http://www.montosogardens.com/rollinia_mucosa.htm

Quote
Propagation and Culture

Biriba is usually grown from seed, but superior cultivars may be propagated by grafting.  It can be grafted onto rootstocks of Annona montana or Annona glabra, which causes dwarfing.  Seeds remain viable for up to 3 years if they are kept cool and dry.




Mike T

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2012, 08:04:09 AM »
I have grown rollinia seeds quite a number of times over a prolonged period of the smoother ones I call mucosa and the 'spiny' ones I call deliciosa.If you thoroughly clean,wash and dry seeds they seem to keep their viability longer.Some fruit have much larger seeds and these seem to keep their viability longer than small seeds.From memory I have planted dry seeds many weeks after extraction and had good germination rates.

Californiatropicals

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2012, 12:35:55 PM »
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Rollinia mucosa/deliciosa seeds do not keep.  Some of the other Rollinia species probably do keep, but I have not tested that.


Guanabanus, I believe you are right, probably under the name Rollinia mucosa
few Rollinia species seeds are distributed, wrongfully but maybe not deliberately

That topic made me bit curious, To set an experiment I've purchased today
seeds from honest seller in Europe, His seeds came from source I know
but won't mention neither of them not to damage anyone.
The seeds stock is few months old and described as Rollinia deliciosa
According to the seller no one complained about bad seeds
And for my knowledge he wont risk his reputation just to catch few gullible buyers

If and When the seeds arrive I'll weight and measure them before planting few.
My phone camera is old but I'll try to take few photos as well
And inform if something interesting happen

There is surely a certain degree of confusion
http://www.montosogardens.com/rollinia_mucosa.htm

Quote
Propagation and Culture

Biriba is usually grown from seed, but superior cultivars may be propagated by grafting.  It can be grafted onto rootstocks of Annona montana or Annona glabra, which causes dwarfing.  Seeds remain viable for up to 3 years if they are kept cool and dry.




According to what I've read  Rollinia Deliciosa and Rollinia Mucosa are one in the same.  I recall reading a story where the changed the name from mucosa because they thought the name was unappetizing... The mucosa name coming from the fact that overripe fruit  has a texture like snot or mucus.

That being said, I've also received rollinia deliciosa seeds from a reputable e bay seller that were supposedly very fresh and packed in moist peat moss. All 5 failed, Most were already rotted upon arrival.. It's a bummer. I know they have the potential to stay viable dry.. because of the one seed I germinated from top tropicals.  I feel though that it's probably best to get fresh seeds lol.

amaqeq

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2012, 10:58:26 AM »


At the column under 6 are few of the alleged Rollinia deliciosa seeds which arrived today
they are from few months old stock, seed scarification was not done by me, they arrived like that, deed that will probably shorten even further the seed's period of viability.
After soak in water till they will sink (or not), they will be placed in peat moss
(kekkila germination grade)
Maybe I'll try few things like .1~.2% potassium nitrate, 350PPM gibberellic acid
24 hours bath, or just cracking few
But basically my preference is not to bother with them to much
If they will they will and if not not
Next update will be posted after they either sprout or rot

« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 02:40:59 PM by amaqeq »

fruitlovers

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Re: Rollinia Problems
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2012, 02:26:42 AM »
Giberellic acid is only useful for seeds that go into dormancy, for example ilama. I don't think it will help to sprout rollinia seeds as they sprout fine right out of the fruit. GA3 might even impair sprouting of rollinia seeds.
Oscar

 

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