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Author Topic: Avocado grafting  (Read 2218 times)

spaugh

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Avocado grafting
« on: July 12, 2018, 04:13:08 PM »
I got some hard to get scions from a member here.  Thanks for those.  Ive got 20 or so seedlings Im going to graft tonight.  I am a novice at this and dont want to screw it up.  I usually get 1/3 to 1/2 takes.  Would like to ensure success of at least one of each of the 5 cultivars I got scions of.  So I have a few questions for the experts. 

1.) Best gfraft type for seedlings?  Cleft or?  Scions are pencil size.

2.) Leave some leaf sets below the graft or leave none?

3.) Best place to put the trees after grafting?  Greenhouse with 50% shade and 90F temps.  Outside in the shade also around 90+F.  Or in the garage which stays in the 70s and 80s and I have a dimmable grow lamp I can put on them.  Since its mid summer Im not sure where the best place to set them after grafting.

Any other advice?  I really want to get at least 1 of each type to take so I can get trees growing here. 

Thanks
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 05:13:54 PM »
2. Leaves support the tree so leave them on.

behlgarden

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 05:23:48 PM »
I got some hard to get scions from a member here.  Thanks for those.  Ive got 20 or so seedlings Im going to graft tonight.  I am a novice at this and dont want to screw it up.  I usually get 1/3 to 1/2 takes.  Would like to ensure success of at least one of each of the 5 cultivars I got scions of.  So I have a few questions for the experts. 

1.) Best gfraft type for seedlings?  Cleft or?  Scions are pencil size.

2.) Leave some leaf sets below the graft or leave none?

3.) Best place to put the trees after grafting?  Greenhouse with 50% shade and 90F temps.  Outside in the shade also around 90+F.  Or in the garage which stays in the 70s and 80s and I have a dimmable grow lamp I can put on them.  Since its mid summer Im not sure where the best place to set them after grafting.

Any other advice?  I really want to get at least 1 of each type to take so I can get trees growing here. 

Thanks

Brad, I would recommend you go modified cleft/veneer, where you go into the trunk of seeling no more than half its thickness at an angle, what it does is it gets you a graft if takes you can cut head off, and if it fails, you still have seedling available to regraft. Another thing it does is leaves of seedling are intact thereby providing energy to the graft.

I would put the grafted pot in semi shade

shaneatwell

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 10:58:47 PM »
My success rate went way up when I started using rubber bands.
Shane

wslau

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 11:36:47 PM »
Brad...I watched the avocado grafting operation at LaVerne Nursery.
The use cleft grafts on small Zutano rootstock, sometimes without leaves below the graft.  They use rubber bands to hold the grafts in place and then touch up unwrapped areas with pruning sealer (as needed). So, no parafilm for avocado grafts. The grafted trees were placed in a white color covered greenhouse with controlled temperature 80-85F (with vent fan) and humidity (felt like 100%).  Main grafting season is March.  Their success rate is about 90%+. 

Shane was there with us...perhaps that's where he learned the rubber band technique.

This is the link for the first Laverne Nursery tour I arranged.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9075.25
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 11:55:50 PM by wslau »
Warren

spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 12:27:27 AM »
Thanks guys.  One thing I noticed is the longer the scions are in the mail the worse my success rate.  If scions come off my own trees or other trees in SD and graft same day I get good luck.  If they come from LA, I get ok luck.  If they come from Hawaii I get poor luck.  These scions looked decent but were already discoloring after 3 days in the mail from HI.  I had about a dozen good scion/rootstock matches and grafted those tonight.  We will see how it goes...

Im using clothes pins instead of rubber bands.  Hopefully its just as good.  Seems to work well. 

Would like to get these few new cultivars and then I am done with new cados. 

Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2018, 12:31:17 AM »
I feel sorry for the guy that had to do all these.  :o



Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 03:43:09 AM »
Sucks I couldnít make it to help you graft today as I had previous arrangements with Leo Manuel.

I donít like to use rubber bands because they deteriorate rapidly in our hot sun. The clothes pins are so much easier to use. When I used to use rubber bands, many of them would go bad and release tension on the graft union.

For avocado grafts, which I havenít done too many of compared to Mango, I have had success with cleft, veneer and side grafts. The clefts are easiest but veneer seems to have slightly higher success rate, similar to side grafts. As long as you keep it warm and out of direct sun for the first couple weeks, you should get some good takes. The most important factors are the health and vigor of your rootstocks/scions.

Simon

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 09:11:45 AM »
Short answer: grafting in Jan/Feb, parafilm.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 10:18:31 AM »
January ?  Trees are blooming and not flushing Jack.  Im surprised you suggest winter.  Whats the reasoning?
Brad Spaugh

Bush2Beach

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 10:39:20 AM »
Jack just dropping in to drop knowledge on the new heads like always. Thanks Jack!

Brad,
I'd think same reason as the commercial nursery's that graft in March. It's not blazing, fry your scion hot.
I would stick them inside in the 80 degree temps , actually I'd hedge and put some in full shade in the greenhouse or under a mature avocado tree.

Why would you use rubber bands and clothespins to hold your scion to rootstock instead of green or clear plant tie tape??
neither would hold the scion as tight to the rootstock for a tight cambium match.

ScottR

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »
I live close to Jack S. we have grafted at many different times here on the Central Coast, but we have found that Jan - Feb. into March works best for us and that goes for grafting trees in ground. When grafting seedling I've found that you can push that time frame out to March, May, June if grafting to seedling rootstock, bottom heat and 30-50% shade cloth and i use parafilm and buddy tape mostly buddy tape on avo's and rubber bands on top of graft! If you use 1/2" poly tape be  careful  not to wrap to tight because you can bruise seedling avocado wood! Less than 90 degree heat would be better. I aslo put white paper bags over graft's outside to protect from sun.
May the grafting god's be with you!! Just grafted some seedling about a month ago and most are growing well in G.H. on bottom heat and 30% shade cloth Thanks Jonah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I use mostly whip and tongue graft and Jack uses cleft so use what ever graft your comfortable with and seedling or mother plant is pushing growth! ;)

spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2018, 03:50:13 PM »
Jack just dropping in to drop knowledge on the new heads like always. Thanks Jack!

Brad,
I'd think same reason as the commercial nursery's that graft in March. It's not blazing, fry your scion hot.
I would stick them inside in the 80 degree temps , actually I'd hedge and put some in full shade in the greenhouse or under a mature avocado tree.

Why would you use rubber bands and clothespins to hold your scion to rootstock instead of green or clear plant tie tape??
neither would hold the scion as tight to the rootstock for a tight cambium match.

I agree with hedging bets, some are under banana trees in 80% shade outside.  Its 90 today.  And pulling half in the garage under some cree leds on low in an air conditioner set to 80.  Yes I have power to blow we have a big solar system that makes more than we use.

Green tree tape works well but the clothes pins are easier when it comes times to remove.  I put 2 or 3 on each graft and squeeze tight.
Brad Spaugh

barath

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2018, 04:16:15 PM »
This probably isn't adding much, but I've found that scion freshness matters a lot for avocado grafting, much more than any other trees I graft and probably as much as it does for passionfruit.  One trick that seems to help is put scions in a cup of fresh water (room temperature water, boiled/filtered if your tap water isn't great) for a while before grafting.

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 04:19:14 PM »
Brad, we don't get blooming that early in the year.  What I look for is the new growth starting and hopefully a connection between stock and scion before hotter and dryer weather.  Of course your weather is much hotter than here in the cooler CA coast and you probably harvest before we do.  We had the blast of heat last week and we were 108 degrees two days in a row.  Hottest we have had in our 46 years here.  Lots of fried new growth on avocado trees and a yardfull of ivy looks like I had sprayed it with Roundup.  Heck, Roundup hardly works here with cool foggy weather. Now I am looking a a huge avocado crop of bb sized fruit waiting to fall off.  Still, limited damage due to extra watering and overhead spraying of the trees.  By the way, macadamias didn't seem to notice any heat.  Would like to get back to our normal 75 degree summer weather with morning and evening fog.

spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 05:01:24 PM »
Wow, thats really interesting that you dont get blooms yet.  Your trees are 4 or 5 months behind whats happening here.  I start getting blooms in Octomber/November that last until around April or May.  January is full bloom time.  A friend was telling me that carpentaria area is ideal for avocado farming.  I dont know how much further north you are from there but I think your climate is better suited for it than here. 

Yes its way hotter here (bordering too hot).  Especially where I am is worse than the agricultural areas like fallbrook and vista because no one else is farming out here.  Its just lots of open space and dry native vegetation where I live.  Our place backs up to a nature preserve and a military bases.  My hass are black and falling off the tree ripe now.  They are amazing but done for the season.  Even my lamb hass is black and starting to drop. 

I think the best time to graft here is after blooms are finishing around April and the scion wood is flushing.  But I am still trying to get the grafting thing dialed in.   
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 05:05:25 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 09:32:45 PM »
Jack, how are grafts holding up?

I had 1 take and the rest ended up failing. They were green for about 2 months and then started to shrivel up. Eh. Not that I doubted you, but it seems that in my hands grafts do better earlier in the year. That being said, it was 80s and 90s here in Jan and February this past year.

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 10:04:23 PM »
Khaled...only grafting I did this year (avocados) was on a seedling tree that is about 5 ft tall.  Grafted about 8 different scions (some from N Cal: Solano and Seminary) and some from my stuff (Lula, GEM, Creamhart F1, Blue Haze).  All grew through the Parafilm with 1-1 1/2 in shoots.  I started counting the upcoming avocado crop!  The hot spell just before the last one fried them and just Lula and Creamhart F1 are still green.  They were grafted in March.  Some scions are still green, but buds may be destroyed.  We don't get the hot and dry weather "normally" in Jan or Feb so have best luck with avocados then.  However, there is no "normal" anymore with regard to hot weather and I even installed airconditioning last year after 45 years of just opening windows.  Sorry about the "takes" on the grafts.  It's all magic anyway. Failure is a part of success. Let me know next winter and take advantage of at least shorter days with hopefully cooler weather.  Our chapter of CRFG in San Luis Obispo has its scion exchange in early February at Cal Poly and I'll cut avocado scions again.  OR e-mail me. 

Jack

shaneatwell

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2018, 11:39:51 PM »
On the rubber bands....

Yes might have got it from the tour as wslau says. But I didn't take it serious for more than a year.

In my climate the rubber bands deteriorate in about two weeks. I cover in foil for 4-6;weeks then remove after it buds out. Alternately you can wrap the rubber in parafilm and it'll last for a couple months.
Shane

barath

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 11:46:32 PM »
On the rubber bands....

Yes might have got it from the tour as wslau says. But I didn't take it serious for more than a year.

In my climate the rubber bands deteriorate in about two weeks. I cover in foil for 4-6;weeks then remove after it buds out. Alternately you can wrap the rubber in parafilm and it'll last for a couple months.

I have a dumb question -- why not just let the rubber band deteriorate after 2 weeks?  I sometimes use them and do a layer of parafilm first and then rubber band on top, usually when it's a graft I won't be able to come back to later.  And even if the rubber band goes away it seems ok.

simon_grow

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2018, 01:23:01 AM »
Sometimes the tip of a cleft graft will spread open as the very tip of the cleft dries up. It can happen after 2,3 even 4 weeks depending on the stage of growth of the scion and rootstock and also depending on the variety of plant that is grafted.

Grafts on more mature wood of Pomegranate for example will sometimes spread open when the wood is older but on younger wood, it doesnít happen as often.

For soft wood cutting such as that using the stone grafting technique, I will often not use any binder other than parafilm or buddytape. The wood is so soft that it will not cause a breach in the parafilm or buddytape and the stretched parafilm or buddytape is strong enough to add enough tension on the union to provide more than adequate contact.

Simon

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2018, 10:44:13 AM »
I think with everyone's micro climate being different and the climate in general being a different new normal every year, It's best to graft Avocado when the temperatures are in the 65- 80 degree range and not 80- 95 degree range.
I agree it is hit or miss as you could have a 2 week fog spell by the coast in June or July that would make for good conditions for grafts to heal. Just keep trying when the conditions are within those parameters and you will succeed at some point.
 The more we report our experiences of success the more we can learn and succeed at grafting Avocado.

I like the 1/2 green plant tie tape for grafting scion 5/8" and thicker. The 1/4" clear tie tape for all smaller grafts.
I was taught Avocado wants more cambium contact than other grafting may require and a tight cambium connection.
I want to see someone's rubber band technique as I cant imagine how to get a tight connection , easily, that way.

Jack, Thanks for the scion and advice! I got at least 1 take on each variety. It is magic and failure is part of the success in the long run. Too true. 108 in Nipomo , Wow! Topped out in the low 90's in S.C. I believe.


Robert, Good work with the BD man!
Now how do I slay these encroaching gopher's , which trap do you use?

ScottR

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2018, 11:03:01 AM »
Sorry to steal thread a bit; Jonah , I like to use traplineproducts.com I like the mole traps for small to mid size gophers and big gopher trap for big boy's and girl gophers! ;)

buddy roo

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2018, 01:23:36 PM »
Brad,  you can not beat a WET paper towel and thin plastic bag tied on the bottom.          Patrick

shaneatwell

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Re: Avocado grafting
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2018, 02:27:57 PM »
I prefer whip over cleft and in a mismatch I do whip at the edge of the accepting branch to match the whole arc of the cut. Wrap rubber in parafilm if I expect a long incubation. Foil for two to four weeks.

I actually don't sweat the cambium contact too much on green grafts since the entire center is conducting water up.

Avocado from a few weeks ago:



Mismatched lemon on lemon with whip on edge from a couple months ago:




Perfectly matched pomelo on lemon whip. When the rubber and failed this one split open a little on the top end but has since mostly healed over:



Shane

 

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