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Author Topic: Who grow Durian in South Florida?  (Read 1827 times)

kc_moses

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Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« on: July 24, 2018, 02:07:20 PM »
Just out of curiosity, what kind of experiment people are doing about Durian in South Florida. Right now I have a Mornthong Durian growing in 5 gallon paint bucket that's almost 1 year old. If it gets to 5-6 ft tall I might put it in ground. I bought the young plant through ebay.

I'm still trying to source for Musang King durian plant or seeds. A nursery in Hawaii said he has it (Musang King) but could cost hundreds to purchase as it's in 7 gallon, when I tried to purchase it he just stop responding to email.

Here is comparison of Musang King and Mornthong:
https://youtu.be/KwfOUpjwNr8

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 02:34:40 PM »
I suggest investing in a plane ticket to Thailand, Malaysia,  Australia or the like and not waste any more effort  (unless of course you are just doing it for shits and giggles).
- Rob

Mugenia

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2018, 02:39:25 PM »
Believe it or not, durian can't even grow in many regions of tropical Vietnam and the Philippines.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 03:16:43 PM by Mugenia »

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 02:59:30 PM »
Does it even fruit in Hawaii or Costa Rica?

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 04:05:22 PM »
Does it even fruit in Hawaii or Costa Rica?

Yes, but that is far different than South Florida.
- Rob

noochka1

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 04:38:45 PM »
Hi,

I'm growing testudinarum, lowianus, oxleyanus, graveolens and several cultivars of zibethinus.  I'm growing mine hydroponic because durian won't tolerate my sandy, salty soil and, in past experience, they have been extremely prone to fungal diseases when direct planted.  So far the plants are responding very well.  I'm getting really nice root growth and no signs of disease.  But time will tell.

Best regards,
Scott 

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 08:44:17 PM »
Does it even fruit in Hawaii or Costa Rica?
Yes, fruits here.  Our summers are more mild than Florida. We very rarely get above 90 in the summer (Our Hawaii avg summer high is 81). Our winters are warmer than Florida. We hardly get below 60. Lowest is maybe a couple nights 55, avg high is still 75. I think Durian would do better in this area with the intense sun/heat and humidity of a Florida summer. However, I wouldn't like a Florida summer  :P

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 08:51:11 PM »
Decided to add some data. Data analysis is what I do all day long...

Here is data on averages (fairly similar), but it's not the average low that is killer, it's the max low. 


Kauai Annual Temp


Lake Worth Annual Temp

If you could avoid that min low.... then you are in businnes.. The cost to avoid that min low is what is expensive.

Empoweredandfree

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 03:21:36 AM »
Highly unlikely, but who would have thought there would be (albeit few) purple mangosteens fruiting in Florida years ago...?

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2018, 10:17:28 AM »
Thanks everyone! I started this discussion just to see what people are experimenting with. Good to hear there is experiment using hydroponic, and pay attention to temperature etc. Sound like soil and disease is a big factor in Florida. I know Ricard at Excalibur is trying his in a greenhouse but no one know the progress that he's making. Does Fairchild Botanical Garden have Durian experimentation?

By the way, someone in Youtube suggested to grow "Red Durian", and graft other durian species on it. The reason is: Red Durian is what we call "Jungle Durian/Wild Durian", because it grows in various harsh environment like clay/mud soil. The Jungle Durian also grow on mountain/elevation so it could tolerate cooler temperature. It sounded make sense on paper, just don't know if anyone try this approach in Florida/Hawaii. Someone is selling Red Durian in Jupiter through ebay, but at $60 for a tiny young plant, and I have no experience grafting so I'm not going that route yet.

If you guys can understand Malay/Indonesian, this guy has a lot of in depth information:
https://youtu.be/i_HjFuzhD3E

Finca La Isla

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 11:35:51 AM »
I looked at the video but there is something I fundamentally donít understand. Maybe someone can explain to me in English or Spanish why this grafting technique doesnít care about lining up the cambium layers.
Peter

ftmyersfruit

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 12:37:14 PM »
Someone on Facebook last week said there was a 15 ft tall fruiting Durian on Pine Island but it was an unreliable source and they never backed it up. There are dozens of trees in the ground around SWFL but none even close to fruiting or that will ever fruit.

noochka1

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 02:17:42 PM »
Thanks everyone! I started this discussion just to see what people are experimenting with. Good to hear there is experiment using hydroponic, and pay attention to temperature etc. Sound like soil and disease is a big factor in Florida. I know Ricard at Excalibur is trying his in a greenhouse but no one know the progress that he's making. Does Fairchild Botanical Garden have Durian experimentation?

By the way, someone in Youtube suggested to grow "Red Durian", and graft other durian species on it. The reason is: Red Durian is what we call "Jungle Durian/Wild Durian", because it grows in various harsh environment like clay/mud soil. The Jungle Durian also grow on mountain/elevation so it could tolerate cooler temperature. It sounded make sense on paper, just don't know if anyone try this approach in Florida/Hawaii. Someone is selling Red Durian in Jupiter through ebay, but at $60 for a tiny young plant, and I have no experience grafting so I'm not going that route yet.

If you guys can understand Malay/Indonesian, this guy has a lot of in depth information:
https://youtu.be/i_HjFuzhD3E

My limited experience is that D. graveolens (which can be either orange or red) fares the best from seed in SEFL conditions when planted, and can handle temps as low as the mid 40s just fine for very short periods.  D. testudinarum also looks promising but none of my plants have gone in the ground yet.

I believe that many Thai growers use D. mansoni - which I believe is also red - as a rootstock, but I haven't had an opportunity to trial it yet. 

The most difficult of the lot in my experience has been D. kutejensis.  They seem to have a high degree of susceptibility to fungal infection, even in a hydroponic environment.

Best regards,
Scott   

Musa

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 03:12:31 PM »
Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden has durian in the ground in a greenhouse. They have/had Durio zibethinus, Durio oxleyanus, Durio graveolens, and Durio testudinarum. I was there last week and remember seeing Durio graveolens 'Suluk 3' but not sure on the status of the others.  It's in the ground and probably 20-30'. I don't believe they have flowered.
-Adam

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 04:30:52 PM »
Alright! This discussion is getting interesting, so there are more durian trees around South Florida than expected. I think the next thing we need to find out are how old the existing trees are (i.e Durio trees got to 20-30' in Fairchild, but are they 5 years, 8 years, grafted, start from seeds etc.)  Durian typically start fruit around 15 years, but grafted could only take 8 years (again, from my brief research and read from internet).

I see Durian really have a lot of commercial potential selling at $9.99/lb so I expect more commercial growers would try really hard to make it work.

noochka1

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2018, 04:39:45 PM »
There are several D. zibethinus varieties that supposedly fruit in as little as 4-6 years from seed.  Cha Nee and Kra Dum Thong are both supposed to be early fruiting varieties.  And Mon Thong is supposedly 8 years from seed.  But all of these figures are probably when plants grown in ideal conditions.

luc

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 07:22:58 PM »
Well folks , I didn't read all the answers , so I may be contradicting some people . I am at 20 some degrees north , elevation 300 meters , in Mexico . My Durion is doing very well ( not fruiting yet ) but one hour driving up north , there are fruiting durions .
   
Luc Vleeracker
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Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

fruitlovers

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2018, 07:12:45 AM »
Decided to add some data. Data analysis is what I do all day long...

Here is data on averages (fairly similar), but it's not the average low that is killer, it's the max low. 


Kauai Annual Temp


Lake Worth Annual Temp

If you could avoid that min low.... then you are in businnes.. The cost to avoid that min low is what is expensive.
Florida has lots of problems with fruiting durian, not just minimum lows. It's also inadequate soils, disease problems, and hurricanes.
A contest was started several years ago on this forum to see who could fruit the first durian in Florida. It's still up for grabs.
Oscar

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2018, 07:56:51 AM »
Alright! This discussion is getting interesting, so there are more durian trees around South Florida than expected. I think the next thing we need to find out are how old the existing trees are (i.e Durio trees got to 20-30' in Fairchild, but are they 5 years, 8 years, grafted, start from seeds etc.)  Durian typically start fruit around 15 years, but grafted could only take 8 years (again, from my brief research and read from internet).

I see Durian really have a lot of commercial potential selling at $9.99/lb so I expect more commercial growers would try really hard to make it work.

No, a commercial grower in Florida would not waste their time and loss of money to get it to work.  Too many negative variables and the income loss is not a smart economic/business decision.  They would make their decisions in crops that the net gains are the highest.

There is a reason the price per pound is so high...
- Rob

noochka1

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2018, 01:36:15 PM »
Alright! This discussion is getting interesting, so there are more durian trees around South Florida than expected. I think the next thing we need to find out are how old the existing trees are (i.e Durio trees got to 20-30' in Fairchild, but are they 5 years, 8 years, grafted, start from seeds etc.)  Durian typically start fruit around 15 years, but grafted could only take 8 years (again, from my brief research and read from internet).

I see Durian really have a lot of commercial potential selling at $9.99/lb so I expect more commercial growers would try really hard to make it work.

No, a commercial grower in Florida would not waste their time and loss of money to get it to work.  Too many negative variables and the income loss is not a smart economic/business decision.  They would make their decisions in crops that the net gains are the highest.

There is a reason the price per pound is so high...

Rob is absolutely right.  No commercial grower in their right mind is going to take on a financial risk like durian when there are so many other viable options:  Tomatoes, peppers, blueberries, strawberries, etc.  At best, durian is going to be grown in the back yard by durian enthusiasts.  And I look forward to the day when we can enjoy home-grown durian from our own trees :-)  Now the problem is finding that elusive plant that will survive Florida conditions.....

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2018, 08:40:03 PM »
Here is my 1.5 years old Durian. I moved it from a 3 gallon size pot to 5 gallon Home Depot paint bucket (with holes drilled at the bottom) this Spring. I put insulation bubble wrap around the bucket because the sun UV cause the bucket turn brittle fast and to make sure the soil temperature doesn't get too hot. I still anticipate I need to move the Durian tree in and out of the house/garage this coming winter but if it gets bigger early next year I will put it in the ground and continue experiment.

Durian tree is about 4 ft tall:


New flush are healthy and green:


Old leaves do turn brown and drop:

Ulfr

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2018, 09:04:55 PM »
That looks a lot like a jackfruit/other Artocarpus  ???

The good news is you have a much better chance with it :)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:07:27 PM by Ulfr »

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 09:10:53 PM »
 :P I bought the plant off ebay. So I got a fake Durian?

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 09:14:34 PM »
That looks a lot like a jackfruit/other Artocarpus  ???

The good news is you have a much better chance with it :)
2nd, that looks like jackfruit or derivative. Along with the good news above, if you took really good care of it, you could get fruit in 3-5 years. Bad news, it should be a lot bigger to hold fruit. And will need plenty of room/water, a much/much larger pot.

Durian is 8-12 years to fruit (if you are lucky). They say that a durian doesn't reach it's peak flavor profile until the tree is 20 years old.  An extremely long investment on any lifespan. I look at the investment on trees in terms of probability (probability not to die due to disease, flooding, insects, probability to not move away from the house before the tree matures) and cost of ownership as an annual investment (time to prune, feed (fertilizers, wood chips, tree clippings), insecticides (if necessary), water, mow around, weed around, opportunity cost of not growing "something else" in that space).... Durian and mangosteen are the highest cost trees.  So besides the scarcity of the fruit driving up the price, the scarcity (lack of supply) is driven by the investment cost, and also directly drives up the fruit price because the grower knows how much he invested into it.

On the other hand pineapples, bananas, dragon fruit, and papayas are the perhaps the lowest cost ownership of any plants/trees.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:22:38 PM by FrankDrebinOfFruits »

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2018, 09:26:20 PM »
Yeah, send it off to the mulch pile and go get a grafted one of good variety down the street.
- Rob

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2018, 09:31:50 PM »
Ha ha, you live and learn. No more purchasing Durian from ebay then.

I actually already have a Bangkok Lemon Jackfruit (grafted) bought from Excalibur, and just put it in the ground last weekend. Don't know what to do with this mystery jackfruit. I will just keep it in the pot and if I feel like it, just put it in ground where I saved the space for potential Durian.

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2018, 09:37:38 PM »
Ha ha, you live and learn. No more purchasing Durian from ebay then.

I actually already have a Bangkok Lemon Jackfruit (grafted) bought from Excalibur, and just put it in the ground last weekend. Don't know what to do with this mystery jackfruit. I will just keep it in the pot and if I feel like it, just put it in ground where I saved the space for potential Durian.

If you like jackfruit,  go add a Red Morning.
- Rob

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2018, 09:48:39 PM »

If you like jackfruit,  go add a Red Morning.

Thanks! Will do more research about Red Morning, time to get busy Googling again  ;)

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2018, 09:57:54 PM »

If you like jackfruit,  go add a Red Morning.

Thanks! Will do more research about Red Morning, time to get busy Googling again  ;)

It is the best of the locally available red fleshed jackfruit.  It has less of that juicyfruit flavor and what I would call a distinct sweet slightly musky (in a very good way) red berry flavor.

If you can find a grafted Amber, that would be an excellent orange fleshed variety.
- Rob

noochka1

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 06:38:00 AM »
:P I bought the plant off ebay. So I got a fake Durian?
That's definitely not a durian. 

pineislander

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2018, 09:35:49 AM »
I will just keep it in the pot and if I feel like it, just put it in ground where I saved the space for potential Durian.

Someone on the forum did a multirootstock jackfruit or inarch. In other words you might be able to get a headstart by planting the tree and using it as a multirootstock.

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2018, 10:43:26 AM »

If you like jackfruit,  go add a Red Morning.

Thanks! Will do more research about Red Morning, time to get busy Googling again  ;)

It is the best of the locally available red fleshed jackfruit.  It has less of that juicyfruit flavor and what I would call a distinct sweet slightly musky (in a very good way) red berry flavor.

If you can find a grafted Amber, that would be an excellent orange fleshed variety.

Rob, any chance Exculibur would have the Red Morning and/or Amber fruit for tasting? I grew up eating the yellow jackfruit so it's hard to imagine other flavor other than that I'm used to.

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2018, 10:44:41 AM »
Someone on the forum did a multirootstock jackfruit or inarch. In other words you might be able to get a headstart by planting the tree and using it as a multirootstock.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will consider this. I don't have any grafting experience so may be this would would be my guinea pig, a root stock that I don't if I killed it  ;D

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2018, 11:34:45 AM »
Alright! This discussion is getting interesting, so there are more durian trees around South Florida than expected. I think the next thing we need to find out are how old the existing trees are (i.e Durio trees got to 20-30' in Fairchild, but are they 5 years, 8 years, grafted, start from seeds etc.)  Durian typically start fruit around 15 years, but grafted could only take 8 years (again, from my brief research and read from internet).

I see Durian really have a lot of commercial potential selling at $9.99/lb so I expect more commercial growers would try really hard to make it work.



No, a commercial grower in Florida would not waste their time and loss of money to get it to work.  Too many negative variables and the income loss is not a smart economic/business decision.  They would make their decisions in crops that the net gains are the highest.

There is a reason the price per pound is so high...

Rob is absolutely right.  No commercial grower in their right mind is going to take on a financial risk like durian when there are so many other viable options:  Tomatoes, peppers, blueberries, strawberries, etc.  At best, durian is going to be grown in the back yard by durian enthusiasts.  And I look forward to the day when we can enjoy home-grown durian from our own trees :-)  Now the problem is finding that elusive plant that will survive Florida conditions.....

You can try durian lablae from the mountain in north thailand. It is colder there. Also  is a very good durian with small seed.

EvilFruit

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2018, 03:04:40 PM »
Cempedak, is another great alternative to Durian but certainty not as great as top quality Durian, in my opinion. Also, I believe no one managed to fruit Cempedak in Florida so your only option is to get a jackfruitxCempedak hybrid if you want something that is very close to durian.

Just keep in mind it won't be as good as a durian.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 03:08:05 PM by EvilFruit »
Moh'd

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2018, 05:37:49 PM »
Cempedak, is another great alternative to Durian but certainty not as great as top quality Durian, in my opinion. Also, I believe no one managed to fruit Cempedak in Florida so your only option is to get a jackfruitxCempedak hybrid if you want something that is very close to durian.

Just keep in mind it won't be as good as a durian.

Chempedak is not close to durian...nobody likes it in Thailand, durian is much better.

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2018, 12:56:09 PM »
Cempedak, is another great alternative to Durian but certainty not as great as top quality Durian, in my opinion. Also, I believe no one managed to fruit Cempedak in Florida so your only option is to get a jackfruitxCempedak hybrid if you want something that is very close to durian.

Just keep in mind it won't be as good as a durian.

I'm actually growing a Cempedak. Not interested in Cheena/Cempejack since I already have Jackfruit. The only fruit tree on my list are Marang/Pedalai and Durian.

bsbullie

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2018, 01:13:23 PM »
Champedek do not seem to like our weather or soil.  Texture is soft, too.  Cheena, meh...grow good jackfruit, you will be much happier.
- Rob

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2018, 03:46:49 PM »
Cempedak, is another great alternative to Durian but certainty not as great as top quality Durian, in my opinion. Also, I believe no one managed to fruit Cempedak in Florida so your only option is to get a jackfruitxCempedak hybrid if you want something that is very close to durian.

Just keep in mind it won't be as good as a durian.


I'm actually growing a Cempedak. Not interested in Cheena/Cempejack since I already have Jackfruit. The only fruit tree on my list are Marang/Pedalai and Durian.


Durio exarillatus

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13891.msg176068#msg176068


Someone from Florida need to do it.  8)
Moh'd

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2018, 10:20:26 AM »
Champedek do not seem to like our weather or soil.  Texture is soft, too.  Cheena, meh...grow good jackfruit, you will be much happier.

There are many application for cempedek. A lot people get put off by the texture of cempedek. Back home we make cempedek fritter and cempedek butter cake (pound cake). Personally when I grow fruit tree, I'm not just looking for eating fresh, I also look for other application of the fruits.

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2018, 10:26:02 AM »


Durio exarillatus

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13891.msg176068#msg176068


Someone from Florida need to do it.  8)


someone use to run durian orchard between the border of Thailand and Malaysia told me they grow wild durian and craft other durians on the wild durian since it yield shorter trees and the tree is more tolerance toward weather and disease.

While we're on the subject of durian, Durian is in such high demand in Asia (The mainland Chinese consume them now), many durian growers are doing this now..... quite disturbing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s_uzYUgodY


sunny

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2018, 04:52:30 PM »
He is spraying fertilizer i think....Durian needs much fertilizer.

kc_moses

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2018, 09:40:19 AM »
I think it's impossible to find Durio exarillatus outside of India. I'm in the process of doing some searching back in my home country. My contacts can get their hand on Durian Sukang, Durian Dalit and Durian Dulcis/Api. I consider these are wild durian. Could these have potential to use as root stock?

Guanabanus

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Re: Who grow Durian in South Florida?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2018, 10:27:10 AM »
Moral:  Just because the fruit has a prickly peel, doesn't make it a durian.  A lot of people easily jump to the wrong ID.  I have witnessed this many times.
Har

 

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