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Author Topic: PPK vs. Orange Sherbet Shootout - and the winner is...................PPK  (Read 2785 times)

Squam256

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Excuse my ignorance, but what does PPK stand for? Thanks.

Po Pyu Kalay, from Myanmar/Burma.  Also called "Lemon Meringue."  My question: Who came up with the name "LM?"  Was it the Zills?

Yes

WGphil

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Zill tasted it and loved it renamed it for the taste and started grafting then.

That the story I heard at least.

bsbullie

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Zill tasted it and loved it renamed it for the taste and started grafting then.

That the story I heard at least.

Yeah, no...will leave it at that.
- Rob

Cookie Monster

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Sounds like zill hpp had a bad harvest year. For me, it was the worst year for mango flavor in the dozen or so years I've been growing and harvesting them here. You might want to give them another shot next year. PPK is normally extremely good. I've eaten Gary Zill's mangoes in previous years, and they've generally been of high quality. Walter's fruits are normally high quality as well.

Who were they from?

Iíve had about 10 PPK this year and was looking forward to eating them since they have always been on my top ten list for years....until this year. I received the fruits hard rock green and I waited until they yellowed up. The texture was gelatinous and the flavor underwhelming i was surprised and disappointed
from a friend in Florida zhpp I believe
Jeff  :-)

Cookie Monster

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Odd. I've been growing and harvesting mangoes for about a dozen years. Never noted any negative effect in terms of flavor and texture by harvesting mature green and ripening indoors. It is counter-intuitive, and generally newer growers are extremely reluctant to believe such an outlandish concept -- since grocery store fruit is generally of lower quality (I think there are other factors at play, and I think they harvest towards the immature end of the spectrum). It took me several years to convince myself of this.

The current year was absolutely the worst I can remember in terms of flavor, but that was true for both tree ripened fruit and fruit ripened indoors.

And, in reference to the Orange Sherbet mango referenced at the beginning of this thread (picture on another thread), the reason why it had soft nose disorder was precisely because it was allowed to stay too long on the tree (I know this because I've been harvesting OS from my tree over the past couple of months and have experimented both ways). But, most of us like to find these things out the hard way :D.

For reference, here is the OS that nighthawk is referring to:

https://postimg.cc/image/hprj4ku59/

I have to agree 100% with bsbullie. The whole reason I started planting my own trees was that I was tired of under ripe/picked green fruit. Now I have 150 mango trees alone.
Jeff  :-)

bsbullie

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When I say tree ripe, I dont mean you pick and its ready to eat.  Its more of a color change/maturity stage and still may take a couple or few days to be ready to eat (but certainly different than mature green).

Jeff, you also prefer that chalkiness and the acidic component, in some, or all(?), mangoes, that I say is more of that found from picking mature green.  Now, to be honest, some can be and even benefit, Mallika as one, if picked at the proper mature green stage (very hard to determine on a regular basis) but tbis is the outlier.

This all debatable however its a matter of choice to those eating (and thats where I say I have found more prefer them picked "tree ripe"), not what is right or wrong.
- Rob

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An off-tree ripening period of a week or less is ideal.

Mallika seems to need a week or more in order to lose the musky flavor (Dr Richard Campbell once said it tastes like "gym socks"). Fortunately, I don't mind the musky component. I'm still trying to figure the mallika out though. A good percentage of the fruits get some sort of internal cavity disorder, and the ones that are edible seem to vary quite a bit in terms of flavor.

When I say tree ripe, I dont mean you pick and its ready to eat.  Its more of a color change/maturity stage and still may take a couple or few days to be ready to eat (but certainly different than mature green).

Jeff, you also prefer that chalkiness and the acidic component, in some, or all(?), mangoes, that I say is more of that found from picking mature green.  Now, to be honest, some can be and even benefit, Mallika as one, if picked at the proper mature green stage (very hard to determine on a regular basis) but tbis is the outlier.

This all debatable however its a matter of choice to those eating (and thats where I say I have found more prefer them picked "tree ripe"), not what is right or wrong.
Jeff  :-)

nighthawk0911@yahoo.com

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An off-tree ripening period of a week or less is ideal.

Mallika seems to need a week or more in order to lose the musky flavor (Dr Richard Campbell once said it tastes like "gym socks"). Fortunately, I don't mind the musky component. I'm still trying to figure the mallika out though. A good percentage of the fruits get some sort of internal cavity disorder, and the ones that are edible seem to vary quite a bit in terms of flavor.

When I say tree ripe, I dont mean you pick and its ready to eat.  Its more of a color change/maturity stage and still may take a couple or few days to be ready to eat (but certainly different than mature green).

Jeff, you also prefer that chalkiness and the acidic component, in some, or all(?), mangoes, that I say is more of that found from picking mature green.  Now, to be honest, some can be and even benefit, Mallika as one, if picked at the proper mature green stage (very hard to determine on a regular basis) but tbis is the outlier.

This all debatable however its a matter of choice to those eating (and thats where I say I have found more prefer them picked "tree ripe"), not what is right or wrong.

Not sure if I've just been lucky, I've never had a bad Mallika (or a bad Carrie) and I've had them from different sources.  Both have been very consistent for me.  As long as both are picked early/mature green & allowed to ripen to a full bright/dark orange color without going over ripe, all the ones I've had have been deserving of PIN's 5 star flavor rating.  It should be noted that it is a full flavored mango same as a Carrie.  My guess is people who don't like Carrie won't like Mallika as it's even stronger flavored than Carrie.  Both Mallika & Carrie are mango lovers mangoes.  It's not a mango for people who think a Glenn tastes too strong.
Blessed be the man who plants a tree knowing he will never live to enjoy it's fruit or shade.

bsbullie

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Carrie and Mallika are absolutely nothing alike.
- Rob

nighthawk0911@yahoo.com

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Carrie and Mallika are absolutely nothing alike.

My taste buds beg to differ.......IMHE.  While I am still thinking about planting a Mallika the season/flavor profile is similar enough to the mature Carrie that I already have that I don't feel the need.   
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 08:24:11 PM by nighthawk0911@yahoo.com »
Blessed be the man who plants a tree knowing he will never live to enjoy it's fruit or shade.

bsbullie

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Carrie and Mallika are absolutely nothing alike.

My taste buds beg to differ.......IMHE.  While I am still thinking about planting a Mallika the season/flavor profile is similar enough to the mature Carrie that I already have that I don't feel the need.

Me thinks your taste buds have an issue.. need a re-calibration...
- Rob

Johnny Redland

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Carrie and Mallika are absolutely nothing alike.

X 1,000,000

Guanabanus

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The smallish, well-loaded tree of Lemon Zest that I observed this year, had about 90% of the fruits destroyed by what appears to be Mango Bacterial Black Spot.  Although one side of the fruits was usually edible, the bad side was too gross to present, not even on a "severely-defective-mangos-for-chutney" table.  I hope we find some effective protocol for prevention of MBBS, as Lemon Zest is way too wonderful a fruit to give up on.

Po Pyu Kalay / Lemon Meringue was also very affected by the apparent MBBS, but less than 10% were destroyed, while more than half had several very small, very black, raised, split and oozing spots.  This decreased in frequency when I switched to sanitation harvesting, picking fruits of all varieties as soon as the spots became obvious, as the chance is reduced to zilch that any increase in value will occur from leaving the fruits longer on the trees.  So the fruits are blemished and often greener than we would like.  Not having fruits with active oozing on the trees does give some fruits a chance to be clean.

I have not observed Orange Sherbet in the presence of this disease.
Har

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Interesting. About 5% of my OS harvest had MBBS this year.

My keitt, which would regularly lose 90% of its crop to MBBS was down to about 50% crop loss this year, and even those with MBBS spotting held on the tree much longer than before. I think the hard pruning followed by copper treatment did help. I didn't note any MBBS until my spray routine went from once every 2 weeks to once a month or more (somewhere around June). I feel like there is some hope that a fortnightly copper spray will ameliorate the symptoms. Going to test my theory next year :-).

The smallish, well-loaded tree of Lemon Zest that I observed this year, had about 90% of the fruits destroyed by what appears to be Mango Bacterial Black Spot.  Although one side of the fruits was usually edible, the bad side was too gross to present, not even on a "severely-defective-mangos-for-chutney" table.  I hope we find some effective protocol for prevention of MBBS, as Lemon Zest is way too wonderful a fruit to give up on.

Po Pyu Kalay / Lemon Meringue was also very affected by the apparent MBBS, but less than 10% were destroyed, while more than half had several very small, very black, raised, split and oozing spots.  This decreased in frequency when I switched to sanitation harvesting, picking fruits of all varieties as soon as the spots became obvious, as the chance is reduced to zilch that any increase in value will occur from leaving the fruits longer on the trees.  So the fruits are blemished and often greener than we would like.  Not having fruits with active oozing on the trees does give some fruits a chance to be clean.

I have not observed Orange Sherbet in the presence of this disease.
Jeff  :-)

fisherking73

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Still have 5 PPK left on my tree. Sad to see them go, but glad they lasted this long.

simon_grow

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Thanks for the info Har and Jeff. In the Biotech industry, we use an alternating pattern of high and low pH detergents along with bleach/hydrogen peroxide and monthly applications of sporicide in order to reduce our bioburden levels. We canít use these on our plants but we can apply the concept of alternating Fungicides/Bactericides with higher and lower pH in order to disrupt the pathogens life cycle.

Simon

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OS no contest. PPK didnít even make the top 30 2018..... itís been a bad year

Really?  Chris at Truly Tropical sells 80 of the best varieties of Mangoes.  PPK is a top 5 seller for her every year (Carrie, Edward, Glenn & VP are the other 4). What people actually buy with their money is the best popular survey there is.     

Top selling does not make them the best.  Carrie is a huge seller in this area due to the large Indian population.


I didn't realize "Carrie" Zill was from India?.........who knew?  The Zill family matriarch no doubt had about every mango there was in the 1940's and the "Carrie" was her favorite. That's why it Lawrence Zill named it after his mother.  Ask Gary Zill what his grandmother Carrie's favorite mango was.  The fact that Carrie has been around for 80 years and still remains the #1 top fruit stand seller in Florida says a lot.  Once again nobody is saying YOU have to think they taste good, just realize most people think it's one of the best.     
Blessed be the man who plants a tree knowing he will never live to enjoy it's fruit or shade.

bsbullie

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OS no contest. PPK didnít even make the top 30 2018..... itís been a bad year

Really?  Chris at Truly Tropical sells 80 of the best varieties of Mangoes.  PPK is a top 5 seller for her every year (Carrie, Edward, Glenn & VP are the other 4). What people actually buy with their money is the best popular survey there is.     

Top selling does not make them the best.  Carrie is a huge seller in this area due to the large Indian population.


I didn't realize "Carrie" Zill was from India?.........who knew?  The Zill family matriarch no doubt had about every mango there was in the 1940's and the "Carrie" was her favorite. That's why it Lawrence Zill named it after his mother.  Ask Gary Zill what his grandmother Carrie's favorite mango was.  The fact that Carrie has been around for 80 years and still remains the #1 top fruit stand seller in Florida says a lot.  Once again nobody is saying YOU have to think they taste good, just realize most people think it's one of the best.     

WTF are you babbling about??  Do you reslize how stupid you are sounding?  You need to stay off the sauce...
- Rob

johnb51

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WTF are you babbling about??  Do you reslize how stupid you are sounding?  You need to stay off the sauce...
Hilarious! :P ;D
John

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???  Who is using bad language and getting upset?  Please!
Har

WGphil

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My Lemon Zest fruited for the first time and I had 7 fruit 

Best Iíve had this year and Itís been a good year

Had to use sulfur during powdery mildew stage but no other problems after that
 





mangokothiyan

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Carrie and Mallika are absolutely nothing alike.

Agree 100 percent. In my opinion, a perfect Mallika can give any of the new Zills varieties stiff competition; it is that good.

But I am not so sure that Carrie owes its popularity to the Indian population. Two of my American neighbors specifically ask for Carrie mangoes, as do many co-workers. It gets soft quickly, yes, but at the right stage, it is a great mango.   

bsbullie

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Carrie and Mallika are absolutely nothing alike.

Agree 100 percent. In my opinion, a perfect Mallika can give any of the new Zills varieties stiff competition; it is that good.

But I am not so sure that Carrie owes its popularity to the Indian population. Two of my American neighbors specifically ask for Carrie mangoes, as do many co-workers. It gets soft quickly, yes, but at the right stage, it is a great mango.

I did not say "popularity", I was referring to being a top seller (there is a difference).  Many Carrie growers sell their fruit in large quantities,  100+ pounds at a time to Indian buyers.  I have seen a number of Indian buyers offer to purchase all fruit in the tree, regardless of maturity stage.
- Rob

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I think part of the attraction to Carrie is that a lot of people from India simply accept that we don't how to pronounce and write their word "Keri", which is a name for mango!  I often have to explain who it is named after.
Har

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I think part of the attraction to Carrie is that a lot of people from India simply accept that we don't how to pronounce and write their word "Keri", which is a name for mango!  I often have to explain who it is named after.

We get unrelated indian customers from all over the place who call it ďKari KariĒ (two words). Cecil Brumfield apparently doesnít get these though and his Indian customers just call it by one word.

However Most of the Indian demand for Carrie is due to its flavor profile being the closest to Alphonso that they can get here.

The rest of the Carrie demand is Jamaican/Caribbean and approximately 40-50% of Americans, with the remainder despising it.

 

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