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Author Topic: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer  (Read 1697 times)

merce3

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Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« on: August 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM »
Has anyone ever had issues with neighborhood complaints about fertilizer use? I had a neighbor come by my house after I spread fertilizer and complain that I was responsible for the algae in our shared lake. Mind you, I fertilize 3-4 times a year and only fertilize my fruit trees. He tried telling me that it was the wrong time of year to fertilize my trees and that I was the one to blame.

I tried pointing out the lawns with green grass throughout the neighborhood as a big part of the issue, but he seems to think that lawn companies don't fertilize during the summer. The issue is very minor in terms of the amount of algae and I don't think I am contributing much to the overall problem.

Should I reconsider how/when I fertilize? Is there any information out there that I can print out for him? It probably won't do much, but at least I can say I tried. I am using Diamond R's citrus and banana blends. I have to admit that they do put off a smell, but I use a lot of mulch so I assume most of it stays in my yard.


Jct

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2018, 03:17:07 PM »
I couldn't say for sure, but how close is the lake to your fruit trees?
LaVerne Manila Mango; Pixie Crunch, Honeycrisp & Gala Apple Trees; Violette De Bordeaux & Black Mission Fig; Santa Rosa Plum & Snow Queen Nectarine; Nagami Kumquat, Pixie Tangerine, Lemon, Australian Finger Lime & Washington Navel Citrus; White & Red Dragon Fruit; Miracle Berry Plant

behlgarden

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2018, 03:17:46 PM »
tell him to point towards facts that leads to your fertilizer being the root cause. lot of folks shoot from their hips. dont let him get on you, your first defense should be offence.

spaugh

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2018, 03:20:57 PM »
I would tell him to pound sand.
Brad Spaugh

zands

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2018, 03:23:51 PM »
Is this person the type to spread malicious gossip about you as far as you causing the lake algae? Be careful because he/she might want to get others to gang up on you.
Seems like this person has been watching you with your trees. One solution is only fertilize at night and turn off exterior lighting.

behlgarden

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2018, 03:33:19 PM »
usually its the phosphorous that causes the problem via runoff into the water body. anyhow, there must be lot of neighbors that also fertilize so you cant be the one to take sole blame if that is what is causing it.

Dangermouse01

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2018, 03:52:07 PM »
I thought most counties in Florida adopted the State of Florida Fertilizer Ordinance (Brevard did).
It states you cannot apply fertilizer containing Nitrogen or Phosphorus between June 1 and Sept 30.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 03:53:50 PM by Dangermouse01 »

WGphil

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2018, 03:57:21 PM »
Use 0-0- 50 or KMag which is 0-0-22

Without nitrogen and phosphorus you canít be blamed

Brevard bans the use of nitrogen fertilizer in summer to prevent algae bloom

So if your using nitrogen and phosphorus in your fertilizer you have some but not all the blame.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 09:48:03 AM by WGphil »

Cookie Monster

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 05:18:33 PM »
Use a slow release fertilizer, which has less likelihood of leaching. Also, use low / no N and P mixes. My 2 favorite go-to mixes are Har's 0-3-16 (slow release K) for mangoes and Helena Chemical's slow release 8-2-12 for nitrogen lovers (jackfruit, annona, etc).

If you're using regular water soluble fertilizer, it will be gone after one or two good downpours -- most of it leaching through and providing little benefit to your trees. A good slow release product would stick around for a month or two.

I do think it's best to fertilize in summer, as it gives your trees something to munch on after the mid summer pruning. So my approach would be to switch to slow release products to both appease your neighbor and provide better nutrition for your trees.
Jeff  :-)

achetadomestica

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 05:27:28 PM »
Lee County also has an ordinance regarding fertilizer in the summer/rainy season.
If you apply a granular fertilizer and it rains 2-3 inches it's gone let alone 4-5" like
it is prone to do. If you are fertilizing 3-4 times a year it's likely your plants are not
benefitting much in the rainy season. I am trying a slow release made by nutricote
that is good for 360 days. I read that you can cut the 360 days in half in Florida and it
is good for 6 months. I think your neighbor is right and also I think you can go about a
more beneficial fertilizer program if you do some research. I add mulch 2-3 times a year
and coffee grounds and oak leaves and pine needles and eventually my soil is changing from
the white sand that I started with after 7 years. I also added worms that seem to be thriving
around the trees and staying. You are definitely not the cause of the problem but are part
of a huge problem. There is no simple answer and I wonder if changing things back will cause new
even bigger problems, Thank your neighbor and do more research and you will figure out
how to give your plants more nutrition. Foliar spray could be more effective and have less
impact on the environment.


pineislander

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 07:52:41 PM »
People are being told via news and social media to become aware of nutrient pollution, so this is becoming better known.
It may well be that professional applicators can't apply on turf during the Prohibited Application Period.
These rules are well-meaning and come after many years of abuse of our waters, and he does have a point.
If I were faced with that I'd apply slow release and as folks suggest when the neighbor won't see. Applying only to mulch would be a good idea no need to feed the grass. You should become aware of whatever rules your county has adopted.

strkpr00

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 09:04:29 PM »
Not the news you want to hear but the neighbor is some what right, everybody adds nutrients, with septic tanks it even increases.
Example: My mother lived in a community in Tallahassee where she was one of the first home owners, in the center of the community was a small natural lake which was clear in the Summer when she first moved in and i would fish it, with the ever increasing density of home owners the lake slowly greened over in the Summer and hardly any life.

roblack

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 10:03:01 PM »
That had to be an awkward moment. I don't like anyone messing with me in the yard. Disrupts the tranquility.

To add to all this, FL is suffering from a terrible blue/green algae bloom that has been killing off wildlife and making people sick. Tourism likely has been taking a hit as well. Much of this is related to big sugar and the flow of nutrients into Lake Okeechobee, and then spreading from there all the way to the coast. People are getting riled up about it, so probably will be more confrontations like this taking place as folks express their frustrations.   


pineislander

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 10:38:19 PM »
Much of this is related to big sugar and the flow of nutrients into Lake Okeechobee, and then spreading from there all the way to the coast.   
You are somewhat understandably misinformed.
The sugar fields are south and below the lake level. Nutrient runoff from the watershed above Okeechobee comes down the Kissimmee river into the lake. When the lake fills up the Corps of Engineers opens gates and flushes the lake water down rivers east and west to the coasts.
It's a lot more complicated than that but the sugar farmers are easy targets for certain political interests.

Guanabanus

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2018, 08:16:18 AM »
If your circle of mulch under the trees is small, it is not the appropriate place to put most of your fertilizer.

I follow the University of Florida recommendation to fertilize the entire area within a circle twice the radius of the fruit tree canopy.  One has to look hard to see the fertilizer afterward.  Of course, in most yards, this circle includes a lot of grass around the fruit trees.  Because fruit tree fertilizers are low in what grass thrives on ---Nitrogen--- one often sees little response from the grass, especially if the Nitrogen is slow release..
Har

strkpr00

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2018, 08:31:12 AM »
I personally think it will all calm down after dart throwing election/campaign ads. then carry on.

WGphil

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2018, 09:53:43 AM »
It has more to with the river of grass not allowded to filter water on the way to the sea


Now they use the big O as a retention pond and send that pollution through canals

The home prices affected more than outweigh the sugar profits

WGphil

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2018, 12:04:25 PM »
It has more to do with the river of grass not allowded to filter water on the way to the sea


Now they use the big O as a retention pond and send that pollution through canals

The home prices affected more than outweigh the sugar profits

Orkine

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2018, 09:20:11 PM »
Much of this is related to big sugar and the flow of nutrients into Lake Okeechobee, and then spreading from there all the way to the coast.   
You are somewhat understandably misinformed.
The sugar fields are south and below the lake level. Nutrient runoff from the watershed above Okeechobee comes down the Kissimmee river into the lake. When the lake fills up the Corps of Engineers opens gates and flushes the lake water down rivers east and west to the coasts.
It's a lot more complicated than that but the sugar farmers are easy targets for certain political interests.

Thanks, spot on.
There are many layers to this issue.  Unfortunately a lot of sound bite political theater as well.

roblack

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2018, 09:49:35 PM »
Much of this is related to big sugar and the flow of nutrients into Lake Okeechobee, and then spreading from there all the way to the coast.   
You are somewhat understandably misinformed.
The sugar fields are south and below the lake level. Nutrient runoff from the watershed above Okeechobee comes down the Kissimmee river into the lake. When the lake fills up the Corps of Engineers opens gates and flushes the lake water down rivers east and west to the coasts.
It's a lot more complicated than that but the sugar farmers are easy targets for certain political interests.

Looking at this map (link below), I see sugar cane growers on the east and west sides of the lake. Also, driving back from Orlando the other day, saw plenty of sugar cane growing way north of the lake. While I'm not aware of the impact and magnitude of all the factors effecting this nasty phenomena, and can certainly be misinformed about some things, lots of the sugar cane growing is not just, "south and below the lake level."

The Everglades have changed, and are no longer the filtration system of the past. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=florida+sugar+cane+locations&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=26279102,-80564856,64216&tbm=lcl&ved=2ahUKEwjP1d77ifLcAhUNca0KHcGMA0UQtgN6BAgEEAQ&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:2425536914664675275;mv:!1m3!1d5971968.704790024!2d-81.67331966622544!3d23.911770776766417!3m2!1i941!2i614!4f13.1

pineislander

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2018, 06:57:11 AM »
You're right there is sugar cane grown around the lake, but probably due to it being an industrial crop which needs a big mill for processing most of it is concentrated south. i ran across this land use document by the Everglades foundation which shows land use across the area. One thing to remember is that the dike rings the lake and there are relatively few ways for water to enter. Only if the lake is low enough can water backflow into the lake from the canals east and west. It is possible for water to be back-pumped from cane lands south but that is a rare occasion to mitigate flooding populations south.
 I'll post two screen shots where you can see the cane in yellow but here is the link to the whole document:
https://www.evergladesfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/12/Report-RTI-Study.pdf





This article just out today explains some more:
https://okeechobeenews.net/lake-okeechobee/sugar-farmers-push-back-on-attacks-from-politicians-and-media/

roblack

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2018, 09:37:19 AM »
Thanks for posting the maps; interesting to see what is going on in the area.

I agree, cannot blame it all on any one cause. There obviously are a lot of sources of nutrients and waste flowing into Lake Okeechobee and other waterways.

Stayed in the Stuart area, Hutchinson Island, back in July. The beach was beautiful, and we had the Indian River on the other side. Locals warned us not to eat any of the fish from the river AND the ocean, because of the algae and health risks. Was hard saying goodbye to redfish. Were also told not to get into the river, thankfully the kids haven't got sick as we found them jumping off the dock. In some areas, just being outside is making people ill. Sad situation. Needs to be figured out and remedied.

I've never heard of fertilization restrictions down this way, but going to check now.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dispute with neighbor about fertilizer
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2018, 11:41:00 AM »
I thought most counties in Florida adopted the State of Florida Fertilizer Ordinance (Brevard did).
It states you cannot apply fertilizer containing Nitrogen or Phosphorus between June 1 and Sept 30.

Another govt. solution gone bad.  Right when all plant material is active the most and needs feeding......

I'd take Brad and Behl's advice.  Sounds like he just wants to stir up some shit and you're a convenient target.  Only you can determine if he's a control freak such that nothing you say or do will appease what's really none of his biz or kow tow to him and hope he goes away.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 11:45:16 AM by Mark in Texas »

 

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