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Author Topic: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener  (Read 999 times)

sapote

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp_QOOLRTcI
Most people would agree that in this video it is not easy or clear of how to cut the bark down to the precise “juicy band above the wood” as Mr. Zill said, or the cambium layer we know. Not deep enough or a little too deep then you don’t meet the cambium and ended up with a failed graft. I had used this method for more than 12 grafts and had higher than 80% success, but it need good eyes and light condition to see the cut. I developed a modified version that a blind famer can do with no fear.

Instead of sliding down with the knife – multiple strokes if needed – and trying to get exactly at the cambium layer (how thick is the layer – couple cells?), I use the knife to cut a rectangular box and pop the rectangular bark out (sort of like digging a shallow grave for a scion coffin). The task is similar to cut and strip the bark ring in air-layering, but instead of the whole ring we only dig out a long rectangular section the size of the scion to be grafted. This is much easy to have a perfect cambium than sliding with a knife. A top and a horizontal cut down to the wood and then two long vertical cuts the length of the scion, then I pry out the bark, then lower down the coffin, make sure the coffin end touching the bark (this helps the bark to grow new cells and joint the scion end skin)  and wrap up with grafting tape. (Don't worry about if the knife cut too long b/c the bark will heal if not dug out.)
Prepare the scion coffin: pencil size green branch that has bud about to push or ones that had flower some months ago. Make a sharp straight cut 1/8 to ¼  deep of the diameter of the scion. This should expose the cambium cells.  100% yield on this modified graft so far.

For thick bark root stock and small diameter scion, the coffin might not be higher than the bark enough for a tight wrap with the tape, then you can trim off the bark for a more shallow grave and a more exposed coffin before taping it up.

Happy grafting.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 06:18:56 PM by sapote »

Future

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Gravely serious congrats. How many have you done?  I will experiment with this.

sapote

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Grave/coffin method done on last 4 grafts 3 weeks ago and they are all pushing new growth. 5 more last Saturday and still looking good.

cbss_daviefl

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Coffin??? Grave??? I think if you want people to understand, you need to include pics.
Brandon

simon_grow

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I agree that pictures or a video will help. Sapote, this sounds similar to how I do bark grafts when I convert a larger Mango tree.

Simon

sapote

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Did one alampur baneshan on Kent root stock this morning and took some photos. I cut a box on the bark  a little larger than the scion width and length. To pop out the bark and not bruise the periphery bark, I cut a centerline then pried out the bark by wedging the knife into the centerline and tilt it.

cut the outline:



Pry the bark from the centerline:



Then peel the park out clean. No risk of under or over cut the cambium:



Make a flat cut on scion to expose the cambium layer (1/8 to 1/4 thickness of scion. don't go too deep; I prefer a thinner cut for a centerline cambium as long as most cambium are seen. A deep cut results in two-line cambium on both side of centerline and these maybe not align well with a rootstock curved surface cambium. don't be too worried this works most of the time.):



Lower scion down to grave then line up the scion end to the end of the hole (not shown in pic) for fusing the ends together weeks later as the bark grow: (This skinny Alampur scion has no terminal bud b/c it had flower stalk 5 months ago.)




Wrap up from toe to head to prevent dried out with your favorite tape. I used household plastic bag whatever around:




This is a LZ grafted a week ago in grave/coffin style and coffin is pushing:


Edited: After about a week I untape the head to check and if the bud is pushing then I only tape back up to the node to expose the new grow. On sunny location I taped up a piece of white paper around the scion to shield the sun.

On this pic you can tell I used the blue/clear plastic cut from the discarded water bottle wrap. I like its strength and stretch characteristic.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 03:17:34 PM by sapote »

sapote

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You know, if I have to graft hundreds of these, I would make a rectangular steel box with sharp  edges at the end, like a cookies cutter. Then just lineup the cutter on the rootstock and rock it back and forth, then pop the bark out with a knife. all scions can drop through the cutter are qualified. This should be faster than Mr. Zill.

HIfarm

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Did one alampur baneshan on Kent root stock this morning and took some photos. I cut a box on the bark  a little larger than the scion width and length. To pop out the bark and not bruise the periphery bark, I cut a centerline then pried out the bark by wedging the knife into the centerline and tilt it.


Your method looks pretty interesting.  However, I am having a hard time seeing where the cambiums meet up (looks like a pretty imprecise fit).  Do you just try to line up the cambium layers at the bottom & one side of the scion with corresponding cambium layers on the rootstock? 

I'll have to give your method a try.  I used to get a very high hit rate with cleft grafts on temperate fruit trees, ornamentals, & conifers but have had horrible luck with a cleft on mangoes.  This might be worth a try.

John

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When you peel the bark off, what's left on the branch is all cambium. No need to line up the scion.

HIfarm

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When you peel the bark off, what's left on the branch is all cambium. No need to line up the scion.

Ok, thanks.  The pic looked to me like the cambium had been removed with the bark layer from the rootstock.

Seanny

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A good grafting time is when the bark peels easily off the cambium. Otherwise you'll spend some time to remove the bark.

sapote

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John,

for scion pencil size or thinner, I don't even care if it's straight or curved -- the tape wrap will conform the scion to the rootstock. Now to the cambium cut on scion. Before making the cut I looked at the scion bottom end to see how thick is the green bark to judge the cut depth. Then I select the side that has minimum terminal nodes for the cut, and started from the middle and make a steady flat cut continuous to one end with a depth just below the bark. As long as I see the white cambium or wood layer then it's fine. Turned the scion around and cut the other end. Try to have a one plane end to end, and don't worry if some areas no cambium or too deep. As long as some cambium surfaces making contact scion to rootstock and it is not dried out, it will take. I align the scion  bottom end to touch the grave end, and scion centerline to grave's centerline, then tape up from bottom end, aim for the scion center touching the center of the grave. I don't care for the two sides of the scion if they touch or not to the rootstock.

One can tell on the pic of LZ graft that is pushing, that the rootstock is not a large branch and so its cambium is curved, so the cambium making a narrow contact but it is OK.

barath

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Nice technique.  This looks almost like how I do some bud grafts, except with a larger scion.  One challenge I've had with grafts like this (just like bud grafts) is getting the scion to push because it's often lower down on the tree.  Are there any tricks you use to get it to push?  (Like topping the tree after the graft heals?)

sapote

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Nice technique.  This looks almost like how I do some bud grafts, except with a larger scion.  One challenge I've had with grafts like this (just like bud grafts) is getting the scion to push because it's often lower down on the tree.  Are there any tricks you use to get it to push?  (Like topping the tree after the graft heals?)

I topped off the branch on which the graft will be done about 4" or less from the scion, and kept as much leaves as possible. Top off will encourage the root stock to push the scion for new growth. 

simon_grow

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Thanks for the pictures and explanation. It looks easy enough, I’ll give it a try.

Simon

sapote

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"One challenge I've had with grafts like this (just like bud grafts) is getting the scion to push because it's often lower down on the tree."

Bud graft is always slower to push than a full 3" scion full of energy with everything else the same.

sapote

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For us gardeners I don’t think I ever need to go back to cleft graft for mango again. The grave/coffin graft is advantages with larger rootstock, larger total cambium contact surface area, and one long wrapping from toe to head cover the whole scion sealing it from dried out. For seedling rootstock I just wait until it is fully growth and ready to flower, or to 1” or more dia trunk for grave/coffin. It is easy to do, fast bud pushing,  gives high rate of success, and maybe ready to hold fruits the next season (might need fruit support to protect the union).  Based on 7 grafts using Water Zill method done early this year on a 4" dia HD Manila tree, most of the shoots today are about 7/10” or larger at the base, 24” tall, and so I think these shoots will be ready to hold fruits next season.

Diospyros

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Why not leave a flap when you peel back the bark on your rootstock? A flap would also imply a beveled cut on the scionwood.


Also I like to cut across the node on my scionwood. The cambium layer is thicker there. I always make sure I cut across a node when I cleft graft, that way I'm sure that since the scion is wider at the node, no matter if it matches the size of the rootstock, both cambium layers will cross at that point.

sapote

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"Why not leave a flap when you peel back the bark on your rootstock? A flap would also imply a beveled cut on the scionwood."

I have a hard time to visualize this, and what are the advantages?

"Also I like to cut across the node on my scionwood."

Interesting. I choose to cut the side with less bud nodes so to give the remain buds more probability to push. I also think cutting thru the node will be hard to get a flat straight plane (like carpenter planing thru the node eyes).
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 10:20:45 PM by sapote »

zands

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Thanks for posting this video!

Seanny

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Leaving a flap would be a Forkert graft.

Zafra

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 11:15:06 AM »
Had to resurrect this post to share that I had, with countless attempts at cleft, side cleft, veneer, and bud grafts on mango, a solid and admirably consistent 0% takes. Tried this method 3 times and have 100% takes. Sapote, you are my hero <3

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2018, 05:17:06 PM »
Congratulations!!! If the blind can do then so do you. 

 

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