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Author Topic: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener  (Read 6925 times)

Rex Begonias

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Congratulations on going out there and just doing it. Each time you graft, you will build upon your experience and be that much better.

Definitely select scions that are strong and with fully hardened leaf flushes. Remove all the leaves from the scion 1-2 weeks before you plan on harvesting it. You should see nice swollen buds on the scion before harvesting it.

You want to wrap the scion with buddy tape or Parafilm before you graft because wrapping afterwords can dislodge or shift the position of the scion.

Definitely plant out a bunch of mango seeds to use as rootstocks. You can get lots of practice on the cheap going this route.

Simon

Awesome, thanks so much for your help!  Iíll leave this one for now, always good to see what doing it wrong looks like too, lol. 

Will probably do that, with all the mangos Iíve been eating, the seeds germinate readily, esp if I just throw a bunch of loose seeds into mulch I can germinate a bunch at once with low effort.

Rex Begonias

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There are many great videos on youtube about grafting mango.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp_QOOLRTcI
The one that started this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ2Ja76EY38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx_rCjjjJBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEKNrnsuuW0

There are lots more but if you watch these, you will hear and see most of what you need to.  Good luck.
If you were closer, I would invite you to one of the grafting demos we have from time to time, and you would leave with a seedling with a decent variety.

By the way, most important tip, label your graft :)

Awesome, thank you for your help, will check those out. 

My brother lives down in Jupiter, actually,  but we are only down that way maybe every 3-4 months.

sapote

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This is my attempt at this style of grafting .




Should I cover that bud? With a plastic bag ?

Ed

zip tie on rubber band? Learn to tie rubber band and no need zip tie.

Yes, I taped the whole scion top to bottom.

sapote

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Forgive me for any egregious errors- this is my first graft EVER.  Itís a Duncan on a Tommy Atkins.






Tips and pointers greatly appreciated, I tried based on this thread.

A few mistakes on this graft:

1.   Scion is too long
2.   Scion should have no leaves
3.   Scion is too tender too young with new growing leaves
4.   Uncovered air tight scion will dehydrated and die.

Why posted here in this grave digger method, and where did you learn this not-so-good grafting method?


Rex Begonias

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Forgive me for any egregious errors- this is my first graft EVER.  Itís a Duncan on a Tommy Atkins.






Tips and pointers greatly appreciated, I tried based on this thread.

A few mistakes on this graft:

1.   Scion is too long
2.   Scion should have no leaves
3.   Scion is too tender too young with new growing leaves
4.   Uncovered air tight scion will dehydrated and die.

Why posted here in this grave digger method, and where did you learn this not-so-good grafting method?

Sorry, I was apparently so rookie that I almost thought I was doing something similar to what I was seeing on the thread, lol.

I fixed the leaf and wrapped the rest of scion same day as grafting, but like was pointed out, it was too young.  I will leave it on anyhow, I can post updates if you want to see documented progress of a scion dying.

Zafra

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2019, 08:02:15 PM »
I'm using this gravedigger method exclusively for top working with about 98% success on avocado and citrus. With mango I've had several practice takes seedling on seedling with this method, and I had one take out of about 12 with scions that were over a week in the mail but that one take was a miracle because the scions had already pushed in transit so that was the problem. With any other technique I wouldn't have gotten even the one. I've posted pics of some of the grafts here:
https://casaabyayala.tumblr.com/post/187082260277/aguacate-variedad-de-la-casa-que-hemos-nombrado
And here:
https://casaabyayala.tumblr.com/post/187083181283/perennes-julio-agosto-parte-3-injertos
I highly recommend this method for top-working. The only failures I've had with it (other than the exhausted scions) was when the scion is too big (or the sprout too small) so the curve of the sprout doesn't allow full contact with the flat cut of the scion. Barring that, it's practically no-fail.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2019, 08:57:36 PM »
I did 14 mango grafts on July 28 using ďGrave DiggerĒ method Ė got the very healthy scions (Cat Hoa Loc, Cat Chu, Po Pyu Kalay, Jumbo Kesar, ST Maui, Sweet Tart)  from Alex, and thanks to Simon for the info. I didnít touch the grafts until after 4 weeks for fear of dislodging the graft union, but this almost turned out to be a disaster. I also covered all grafts that might be exposed to the hot summer sun with white paper. After 4 weeks I opened up the plastic tape (1/2Ē width strips cut from thick plastic sheet) and found too much liquid inside the tightly wrap and molding started and one graft rotted. Remember this is the Grave Digger graft and not Cleft graft with the former having a much longer and larger cut on the root stock than the latter, and so there was a lot of juice bleeding inside. Interesting that so much juice bleeding in the Summer as compare to in the Fall or Spring, but I think because the tree was in a vigorous growing time at the moment.  With tapes removed and let the grafts opened to  air for about 15 minutes to dry off, I taped them back but left open at the scion top and bottom ends to avoid collecting too much moisture inside.  (Last time when I did the Grave Digger in October there was no issue of too much juice inside the graft.)

Today 13 grafts have pushed new growths and some with 3Ē long growths.

Lesson: In humid summer leave the tape open at both ends of the scion with Grave Digger. Donít try to take a peek by open the tape until after 3 or 4 weeks to avoid dislodging the union. 

Note: I asked Alex to select and cut the healthy scions, and their dormancy status is a non issue for me, meaning no bud prepping needed.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2019, 05:31:02 PM »
This graft on a mature rootstock allows the 1 year old scion to hold couple fruits safely. Here is a Maha graft with 2 good size fruits.


The graft union that holds 2 fruits:


Oolie

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2019, 09:23:06 PM »
Nice graft and Porsche.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2019, 05:42:33 PM »
Good eyes Oolie; my daily driver 53 years old original paint.

Seanny

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2019, 10:00:57 PM »
When you remove bark and set scion into hole like this graft, itís called an inlay.
I would call this graft Inlay Bark Graft.

sapote

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2019, 02:47:44 PM »
When you remove bark and set scion into hole like this graft, itís called an inlay.
I would call this graft Inlay Bark Graft.

Inlay sounds good, but why Bark? I understand Inlay Bark graft is a method of grafting (inlaying) the bark of B on a rootstock A, but in this case we use a whole scion and not its bark.

Zafra

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2019, 04:53:20 PM »
I think bark refers to the rootstock.

tropical-farmer

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2019, 11:42:48 AM »
Inspired by this technique i tried it about 9 weeks ago, Phoenix scions on my seedling tree. They were wrapped and insulated from moisture/rain by a wide stretchable plastic tape. I was out of country for 6 weeks. When i came back and unwrapped them, one had turned black and looked moist and kind of rotting from humidity inside, the other was still green but very wet. Its been 3 weeks since i unwrapped and the green one is still green, hopefully it will take.
Looking at the pics can anyone tell if i did it correctly, i am fairly new to grafting, my takes in side cleft increased from 10% to 40% after i switched to buddy tape from parafilm this summer.



Satya

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2019, 03:57:12 PM »
Start cutting back branches above.
Har

sapote

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Inspired by this technique i tried it about 9 weeks ago, Phoenix scions on my seedling tree. They were wrapped and insulated from moisture/rain by a wide stretchable plastic tape. I was out of country for 6 weeks. When i came back and unwrapped them, one had turned black and looked moist and kind of rotting from humidity inside, the other was still green but very wet. Its been 3 weeks since i unwrapped and the green one is still green, hopefully it will take.
Looking at the pics can anyone tell if i did it correctly, i am fairly new to grafting, my takes in side cleft increased from 10% to 40% after i switched to buddy tape from parafilm this summer.




You are lucky to have 1 out of 2, since I can see a few errors here.
1) because the rootstock is quite thick and the scion is much smaller, and so the tape might not be able to apply enough pressure on the scion due to the coffin sit too low. To improve the situation you should trim off the rootstock bark along side of the hole for the tape to press down more on the scion.

2) you might had taped the bottom complete and prevent moisture draining, especially during growing season. I would leave about 2mm gap open at the bottom of the "hole".

I recently using this technique for about 15 grafts and so far all 15 are taking with new shoots-- 100% yield. One major change I did this time: I cut a thinner layer off the scions -- just enough to expose the white cambium.

P.S. I also exclusively only cut the scion ends with sharp knife before grafting for a clean not bruised ends. Just score around the scion deep enough and snap it off. with the scion bottom making contact with the rootstock bark they joint easy. I also like to leave about 5mm gap between scion top to rootstock bark -- if too close the new shoots may have no room to come out especially when under the tape.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 09:47:24 PM by sapote »

tropical-farmer

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Thank you Sapote. This actually took and is doing well. I changed the technique already. Instead of cutting a wider coffin to be able to push the scion well against the rootstock cambium, i actually keep the rootstocks flap that covers the cambium and donít cut it out but use it to cover the scion and then secure the whole thing with a zip tie. This may allow water to collect though but i ususlly cover the whole thing with a plastic bag trying not to allow rain/moisture to enter.



Satya

sapote

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i actually keep the rootstocks flap that covers the cambium and donít cut it out but use it to cover the scion and then secure the whole thing with a zip tie.

Does the flap join the scion? With a thick rootstock (means deeper grave)  as in this case I think the flap can help to have more pressure on the scion to the cambium contact. Great job!

tropical-farmer

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Thanks.
No the top portion of the flap is there for making the connection tight. The bottom-most portion of the flap does join the scion though. I cut the flap back after the fusion is a success. 
Satya

 

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