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Author Topic: Indian Spice Mangos  (Read 677 times)

starch

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Indian Spice Mangos
« on: August 21, 2018, 11:43:19 AM »
I have been eating a bunch of Sunrise mangos off my tree this summer. The flavor is really incredible: rich, citrusy, spicy, some turpenes (but not knock you over the head). Very aromatic. The only down sides to these mangos (neither of which I mind) is they are small-ish and they have a fair amount of fiber. Not turpentine level fiber, but you certainly couldn't call it fiberless or near-fiberless.

But the flavor is making me very happy.

I have had other mangos in the past that have some of these flavor characteristics, particularly the spicy flavors:
- Kesar
- Bombay
- Jakarta

What are some of your favorite mangos that also fit this bill?
- Mark

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 12:52:13 PM »
Sunrise in my experience is neither a small mango, nor contains discernible fiber. You may have a mislabeled tree.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 12:54:39 PM »
Yah, mangoes can easily be over a pound each. Flavor profile is somewhat similar to carrie. Flesh is soft and melting, no fiber.
Jeff  :-)

starch

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 01:09:44 PM »
Alex and Jeff, thanks for the info!

Well!!! Looks like I have a mislabeled tree tree then. The fruit is great, even if it isn't a Sunrise. Now the next question is, what is it?

The seeds are monoembryonic. Here are some pics of the fruit:





Here are some pics of the tree: http://desertvalleyorchard.blogspot.com/p/sunrise-mango.html

Do you guys have any guess to what the tree is?
- Mark

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2018, 01:17:19 PM »
That looks like a sunrise to me. Apparently, climate makes a difference.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2018, 01:18:58 PM »
This is what the Sunrise looks like here:




knlim000

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2018, 02:28:58 AM »
is it a mallika?  looks like my mallika.

starch

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2018, 02:32:56 PM »
is it a mallika?  looks like my mallika.

I have had tasted mallika from different sources. This one definitely doesn't taste like mallika. Mallika is rich and smooth textured (kind of like how Edward is rich and smooth textured) but with a citrusy-spicy flavor. This mango has some of those flavors but the spiciness and the piney-ness is not like Mallika and the texture is definitely not like Mallika.
- Mark

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2018, 04:00:00 PM »
It's a sunrise. There are some characteristic details that point to it being sunrise. It's just smaller and with less coloration due to the location.
Jeff  :-)

starch

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2018, 04:29:56 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts Jeff!

Yeah, this was the first year that I got a crop off this tree (bought as a neglected and sunburned 25 gallon in 2016, nursed it back in 2017, happy in 2018). I got about 2 dozen mangos this summer.

This summer in AZ was particularly brutal. I have been keeping daily temperature measurements in my yard for 5 years and this summer was the worst. I am wondering if the fiber is a defense mechanism? Or maybe heat stress induced => smaller size, less flesh for the same amount of fiber?

But what is weird is that summer I also got mangos off my Pickering, Carrie, Angie, Juicy Peach, Sweet Tart and Alphonso that were not fibrous at all. Very strange.

At any rate, I just ordered some Sunrise budwood from Alex. I will graft to this tree and so that I can compare mangos from the graft and from the main tree side-by-side to confirm this tree is Sunrise or something different.
- Mark

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2018, 07:25:27 PM »
OK. I'm not sure what leads to the fiber. Finding fiber near the seed is not abnormal for sunrise if memory serves.

Your description of flavor sounds like sunrise.

In your picture of 3 mangoes above, the one on the bottom left corner looks most like sunrise -- those little yellow specs, the slanted nose and the stem attachment are typical. The green / yellow color is also typical when the fruit is in the shade. Size is off though.

Thanks for the thoughts Jeff!

Yeah, this was the first year that I got a crop off this tree (bought as a neglected and sunburned 25 gallon in 2016, nursed it back in 2017, happy in 2018). I got about 2 dozen mangos this summer.

This summer in AZ was particularly brutal. I have been keeping daily temperature measurements in my yard for 5 years and this summer was the worst. I am wondering if the fiber is a defense mechanism? Or maybe heat stress induced => smaller size, less flesh for the same amount of fiber?

But what is weird is that summer I also got mangos off my Pickering, Carrie, Angie, Juicy Peach, Sweet Tart and Alphonso that were not fibrous at all. Very strange.

At any rate, I just ordered some Sunrise budwood from Alex. I will graft to this tree and so that I can compare mangos from the graft and from the main tree side-by-side to confirm this tree is Sunrise or something different.
Jeff  :-)

starch

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2018, 08:02:20 PM »
OK. I'm not sure what leads to the fiber. Finding fiber near the seed is not abnormal for sunrise if memory serves.

Your description of flavor sounds like sunrise.

In your picture of 3 mangoes above, the one on the bottom left corner looks most like sunrise -- those little yellow specs, the slanted nose and the stem attachment are typical. The green / yellow color is also typical when the fruit is in the shade. Size is off though.

Thanks for the thoughts Jeff!

Yeah, this was the first year that I got a crop off this tree (bought as a neglected and sunburned 25 gallon in 2016, nursed it back in 2017, happy in 2018). I got about 2 dozen mangos this summer.

This summer in AZ was particularly brutal. I have been keeping daily temperature measurements in my yard for 5 years and this summer was the worst. I am wondering if the fiber is a defense mechanism? Or maybe heat stress induced => smaller size, less flesh for the same amount of fiber?

But what is weird is that summer I also got mangos off my Pickering, Carrie, Angie, Juicy Peach, Sweet Tart and Alphonso that were not fibrous at all. Very strange.

At any rate, I just ordered some Sunrise budwood from Alex. I will graft to this tree and so that I can compare mangos from the graft and from the main tree side-by-side to confirm this tree is Sunrise or something different.

Yeah, it is very stringy near the skin. it is very noticeable and makes it hard to scoop a bite if you cut off the cheek, because of those fibers. (unlike scooping bites from fiberless mangos like carrie or angie or edward which are easy to scoop out because of the lack of fiber).

Again, this isn't a crazy amount of fiber, but certainly not what I would call fiberless.

Yeah, most of the mangos grew in the shade of the tree. A couple grew in the sun and got orange on the faces that saw the sun.

I am wondering if the size is off because the tree is still relatively small. It is maybe 8ft x 6ft. I did notice a lot of size variation in the mangos too. My Carrie tree is also small and the Carries I got off it are about 1/2-3/4 the size of the ones from Florida. I am wondering though if that might be a heat stress issue too. We did get up to about 120 F a couple of times this summer in both June and July. Which is hot even for here. A couple of 115 F days in June is more typical and we just got walloped with the heat extremes + heat duration this summer.
- Mark

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2018, 08:08:43 PM »
OK. I'm not sure what leads to the fiber. Finding fiber near the seed is not abnormal for sunrise if memory serves.

Your description of flavor sounds like sunrise.

In your picture of 3 mangoes above, the one on the bottom left corner looks most like sunrise -- those little yellow specs, the slanted nose and the stem attachment are typical. The green / yellow color is also typical when the fruit is in the shade. Size is off though.

Thanks for the thoughts Jeff!

Yeah, this was the first year that I got a crop off this tree (bought as a neglected and sunburned 25 gallon in 2016, nursed it back in 2017, happy in 2018). I got about 2 dozen mangos this summer.

This summer in AZ was particularly brutal. I have been keeping daily temperature measurements in my yard for 5 years and this summer was the worst. I am wondering if the fiber is a defense mechanism? Or maybe heat stress induced => smaller size, less flesh for the same amount of fiber?

But what is weird is that summer I also got mangos off my Pickering, Carrie, Angie, Juicy Peach, Sweet Tart and Alphonso that were not fibrous at all. Very strange.

At any rate, I just ordered some Sunrise budwood from Alex. I will graft to this tree and so that I can compare mangos from the graft and from the main tree side-by-side to confirm this tree is Sunrise or something different.

Yeah, it is very stringy near the skin. it is very noticeable and makes it hard to scoop a bite if you cut off the cheek, because of those fibers. (unlike scooping bites from fiberless mangos like carrie or angie or edward which are easy to scoop out because of the lack of fiber).

Again, this isn't a crazy amount of fiber, but certainly not what I would call fiberless.

Yeah, most of the mangos grew in the shade of the tree. A couple grew in the sun and got orange on the faces that saw the sun.

I am wondering if the size is off because the tree is still relatively small. It is maybe 8ft x 6ft. I did notice a lot of size variation in the mangos too. My Carrie tree is also small and the Carries I got off it are about 1/2-3/4 the size of the ones from Florida. I am wondering though if that might be a heat stress issue too. We did get up to about 120 F a couple of times this summer in both June and July. Which is hot even for here. A couple of 115 F days in June is more typical and we just got walloped with the heat extremes + heat duration this summer.

Could they have been harvested too soon?  That green is really dark, an unripe green color.  I have seen better quality with a much more advanced yellow color turn. Maybe even weather conditions playing a role.
- Rob

starch

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2018, 08:13:55 PM »
Could they have been harvested too soon?  That green is really dark, an unripe green color.  I have seen better quality with a much more advanced yellow color turn. Maybe even weather conditions playing a role.

Maybe? But when they get the yellow specs on the skin like Jeff was observing (and they yield to gentle pressure when they are at that stage while hanging on the tree) and I pick them, they are ready to eat in 1-2 days. So they seem pretty close to tree ripe.

Most of the ones I picked were like that. I was experimenting with picking them mature green but without the yellow specs and they take 5-7 days to ripen on the counter that way.

The flavor is similar in both cases, but I think that taste a little better / fuller when they are at the yellow spec stage.
- Mark

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2018, 12:43:40 AM »
Getting back to original question,  have you tried ST Maui ?  the ones I tried had that spiciness, to them but not overwhelming.  firm flesh, 


regarding fiber in mangoes,  I have noticed lots of variation due to cultural practices in some varieties,  such as Keitt.  have had some that were virtually fiberless, and others that have had moderate fiber.    I suspect Nitrogen being a factor.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 12:45:59 AM by Tropicdude »
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starch

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Re: Indian Spice Mangos
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2018, 10:03:12 AM »
Getting back to original question,  have you tried ST Maui ?  the ones I tried had that spiciness, to them but not overwhelming.  firm flesh, 

I have not, but I have heard very good things from many people. So I will definitely seek that one out. Thanks!

regarding fiber in mangoes,  I have noticed lots of variation due to cultural practices in some varieties,  such as Keitt.  have had some that were virtually fiberless, and others that have had moderate fiber.    I suspect Nitrogen being a factor.

Ahhhh!!!!! This is making sense now. As I mentioned above, this was basically a 'rescue' tree in 2016: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29254.msg330995#msg330995 Trunk was sunburned and cracked with several dead branches. So I was nursing it back in 2017 and did give in a fair amount of nitrogen to get it to start to grow vegetatively again. And it recovered nicely.

But with the nitrogen still in the soil, it must have given the fruit fibers it would not normally have. That is a great observation! This makes sense and I think is the factor here. Besides your observation, I can make two of my own:

1. If citrus is given too much nitrogen you get a much thicker skin/pith (which is basically fiber) than you would otherwise. This happens in AZ in young citrus trees when you fertilize to establish them. They grow out of it when they have acclimated to the environment.

2. All my other mangos that I have not been fertilizing as heavily were essentially fiberless. Especially the varities that I grow that you expect no fiber in: Carrie, Angie and Alphonso in particular.

This was a great discussion, thank you all for making these observations about my Sunrise!

« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 11:22:54 AM by starch »
- Mark

 

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