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Author Topic: Annonaceae that are temperate  (Read 4055 times)

usirius

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2019, 05:57:45 PM »
Two other robust Annona species:

Annona cacans (Paca Custard Apple, Araticum Cagao)
is to be said very cold tolerant - USDA-Zone 9, hardy to -3C
Data Source: http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/Annona-cacans-Raritaet-62589p.html

Annona crassiflora (Marolo, Araticum cortia, Araticum do cerrado or bruto)
is to be said very cold tolerant - USDA-Zone 9, hardy to -3C
Data Source: http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/Annona-crassiflora-Extrem-selten-62590p.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
just for comparison
same source writes concerning Annona cherimoya
Zone 10, 5C
Data Source: http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/Annona-cherimola*-44690p.html
May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears. N. Mandela

nexxogen

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2019, 06:45:31 AM »
i understand now the temperatures Karenrei 16 oct 2018 wrote,  -5c for asimina triloba, +8c for A. stenophylla, and +10C for annona cherimola, are not the cold limit, but average of winter temperatures in their natural areas of repartition; average doesn't mean cold records, or temperature that makes loose leafes, or branches;
this cold limit is around -20 or -25C for asimina triloba, and between -5 and -10c for cherimolas;

in my place, one night per winter is -4 or -8c, but it usually never frost in the day, but in 2012 it was one hour -16c one night; one little plant that grows every spring from the roots is interesting to survive such exceptionnal records; so yes, i will be very interested to try A. stenophylla :)

Beware as I said the temperate zone has a lot of temperature Variant.
9B is a climate temperate also, a region with-3 c or-5 c is also an area with temperate climate.
And as the member linsecte says cherimola Annona can endure-3 c and even-5 c see more if it is not regular.
But can easily withstand regular freezing around 0 c and-3 c without problem, if there is a warming of the temperatures in the day.

I myself have Annona cherimola who resist a winter in pots and endure several days of snow.
And regular gels with temperature between 0 c and briefly at-5 c at night but the temperatures were generally positive the day.

So yes Annona cherimola can be cultivated in temperate climate. But this is not to say that in a temperate region with lower regular temperature this will succeed.

As the linsect Member also says, we should not confuse:
cold limit with average cold.

Interestingly, my conditions are similar to yours and my 3 cherimoyas all got frozen to the ground this winter after only a couple of nights with sub zero temperatures.

shiro

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2019, 10:54:11 AM »
Strangely usirius your (data source) give another example just for comparison:

USDA-zone 9-, hardy to -5C
http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/Annona-cherimola-cv-Fino-de-Jete-53344p.html

Another link :
https://www.canarius.com/fr/plantes/annona-cherimola-fina-de-jete-.html

There it says -2.8C
https://growables.org/information/TropicalFruit/annonacherimolanew.htm

nexxogen:
Then you have to take into account the warming during the day.
How old was he at the time of planting?
Did you put any mulch in?

shiro

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2019, 11:33:24 AM »
For further information, the CRFG website gives as information:

Annona cherimola hardy to 25F (-3.8C )
and Annona montana hardy to 23F ( -5C ).
https://crfg.org/home/library/crfg-fruit-list/fruit-cultural-data-2/fruit-cultural-data/

I think certain conditions like the amount of water in the soil can also influence cold resistance.
But others can certainly play a role: Espalier plantation protected by a wall, mulch, pruning in early autumn to stop vegetation and strengthen wood etc...
This winter I would take pictures with thermometer show the results.

usirius

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2019, 02:55:31 PM »
Strangely usirius your (data source) give another example just for comparison:

USDA-zone 9-, hardy to -5C
http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/Annona-cherimola-cv-Fino-de-Jete-53344p.html

Another link :
https://www.canarius.com/fr/plantes/annona-cherimola-fina-de-jete-.html

There it says -2.8C
https://growables.org/information/TropicalFruit/annonacherimolanew.htm


@SHiro: You are right - but this data belong to the special local selection of Annona cherimola "fina de jete"
May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears. N. Mandela

Guanabanus

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2019, 09:39:59 AM »
High concentrations of sugars and of mineral nutrients, in general, lower the freeze points of cells and sap.

High concentrations of Silicon, Calcium, and Copper harden surfaces;  this reduces penetration by crystals of frost.
Har

nexxogen

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2019, 09:13:28 AM »
nexxogen:
Then you have to take into account the warming during the day.
How old was he at the time of planting?
Did you put any mulch in?

On those cold days, I don't think that daily highs exceeded 8C, sometimes even less. But generally, during January which is the coldest month, daily highs are around 12C.
The trees were about 3 year old seedlings I believe. They were over 1.7m tall. I did not mulch at all. Maybe it's worth mentioning that winters here are very rainy.

shiro

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2019, 03:03:23 PM »
Strangely usirius your (data source) give another example just for comparison:

USDA-zone 9-, hardy to -5C
http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/Annona-cherimola-cv-Fino-de-Jete-53344p.html

Another link :
https://www.canarius.com/fr/plantes/annona-cherimola-fina-de-jete-.html

There it says -2.8C
https://growables.org/information/TropicalFruit/annonacherimolanew.htm


@SHiro: You are right - but this data belong to the special local selection of Annona cherimola "fina de jete"


Yes you are right it is a selection but what does it change?
This proves that cherimola is capable of being more rustic than we think.
Any cultivar is derived from the selection of a species (x) for the qualities it possesses, hardiness, taste, vigour of the tree etc.
So whether it's el bumpo, fino de jete or whatever it's still an cherimola tree.
That's why selection is important.
Important in the choice of the fruit from which the seeds have recovered.
In the choice of cultivars and if possible where it grows.

shiro

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2019, 03:46:12 PM »
nexxogen:
Then you have to take into account the warming during the day.
How old was he at the time of planting?
Did you put any mulch in?

On those cold days, I don't think that daily highs exceeded 8C, sometimes even less. But generally, during January which is the coldest month, daily highs are around 12C.
The trees were about 3 year old seedlings I believe. They were over 1.7m tall. I did not mulch at all. Maybe it's worth mentioning that winters here are very rainy.

Indeed this is important because just like many tropical trees, if the water is too important in winter I notice that the roots risk rotting.
If the roots die, the tree too.
This is why a good mulch (10 cm) allows (in my orchard) to avoid this problem.
This also prevents the soil from freezing and thus protects the roots when the tree is young.
Often too much moisture (air as soil) can kill the tree. I see it regularly with the grenadiers too.
The same temperature (- 7C) can kill the tree if the humidity is too high, whereas elsewhere it will not necessarily be the case.
This moisture problem, I also observe with palm trees.
If the humidity is too high a slight protection is may be helpful.
 


All the fruit

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2019, 06:18:34 AM »
Maybe it would be more practical to ask "Which tasty Annonaceae do you think could survive the climate of Snellville, Georgia and fruit there without protection and where can we get some good quality seeds?"
Btw i would like to ask the same question about Heidelberg, Germany. 8a, good for figs, kaki and suchlike, pretty atlantic climate, less sunshine than average 8a in the eastern US since much farther north.

shiro

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2019, 10:39:51 AM »
Here is the link to a colleague's website
http://fruitforestier.info/fr/annona-cherimola-cherimoya/

Then I'll say it again but moisture plays an important role in the tree's ability to withstand negative temperatures.
There is a big difference between dry and wet cold.
And between these two extremes you can have successes or not depending on the humidity.

Phoenix dactilifera is resistant to -9C in dry cold and can die at -4C depending on the amount of moisture.

And between an urban city and the countryside or between an orchard located near a lake and another in the same city locate but further away from the lake there will also be differences.

Palms, cacti, citrus fruits etc several factors may or may not play a role in success.
Of course there are some confidential varieties that are proven to be tolerant to certain temperatures for a certain period of time.

In short, those who want more information can already read the 2 links that have followed.
The first for cherimoliers and the second for avocados.

https://www.greffer.net/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=3820&start=1
https://www.greffer.net/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=4477&start=1

These 2 links are those of a French forum whose members do important research on cultivars that tolerate cold.
Of course you have to read the discussions like the ones found here.


« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 10:44:48 AM by shiro »

shiro

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Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2020, 11:49:56 AM »
For information at All the fruit and usirius.
My colleague is currently proposing seeds and scions of varieties that have withstood fairly severe cold waves.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=35960.0

You can also ask him that it species survived such and such a temperature.
But remember that there are limits to the resistance to cold so if you are looking for varieties resistant to -15C or -20C it will be difficult to find some.
Then you also have to take into account the duration of the cold if it lasts 1 night or 2 weeks it is not the same thing.

At home the temperatures can go down to -10C but it's quite rare.
In your area it's probably more frequent, so a little protection is always a good thing. 

 

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