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Author Topic: Oroblanco  (Read 541 times)

lebmung

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Oroblanco
« on: October 31, 2018, 04:46:36 PM »
I bought an Oroblanco (Sweetie) fruit from store (origin Israel) and to my surprise I found a seed. Now it's supposed to be seedless, maybe some bee pollinated with another citrus.
Anyway I planted in the incubator and after a week a seedling came out.
I know grapefruit and pomelo, the parents, take 8-15 years, or never if the seed was sterile.
Did anyone try it before?

Heinrich

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 05:26:48 PM »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 07:12:24 PM »
Did your plant make a fruit?
I am aware of this trait of grapefruit and pomelo.



Heinrich

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 02:27:50 PM »
None of my flowering seedlings fruited.

Please give an adequate citation: Author, title, page, year of publication.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 02:39:13 PM by Heinrich »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 02:51:41 PM »
Quote from: Heinrich link=topic=30238.msg337324#msg337324 date=1541096870
Please give an adequate citation: Author, title, page, year of publication.
[/quote

Biology of citrus is the book, I forgot where it was I just found this passage and took a print screen.
Seems like there are cultural practices to make the citrus flower earlier and also the use of hormones, but it's difficult to find out how exactly as most are patented or kept secret by research stations.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 03:43:48 PM »
Although considered "seedless", Oroblanco often produces two or three seeds. I've grown a couple of Oroblanco seedlings.

From the research I've been able to dig up, I am led to believe about half the seedlings are nucellar (identical to fruit parent), while about the other half will turn out to be diploids (basically similar to their parents or parent except it will no longer be a seedless variety.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 03:53:14 PM by SoCal2warm »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 08:35:56 PM »
Although considered "seedless", Oroblanco often produces two or three seeds. I've grown a couple of Oroblanco seedlings.

Did yours fruit?

SoCal2warm

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2018, 02:56:01 AM »
Did yours fruit?
No, right now they are just seedlings. But I have no reason to suspect they won't eventually fruit.
They're growing very well I might add.

Heinrich

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2018, 01:25:03 PM »
My early flowering Oroblanco/Sweetie seedling grows fast and very well. However, I grow two almost 4 years old seedlings, which are very slow. The larger of the two seedlings, just measuring 24 cm. It would be interesting to know the ploidy level.

Almost 4 years and measuring only 24 cm.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 01:26:59 PM by Heinrich »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 01:52:38 PM »
Very small for 4 years old. Don't you want to try to induce flowering?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 03:08:20 PM by lebmung »

Ilya11

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2018, 04:58:34 PM »
If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters  above the soil level  , they will again flower  next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut. Otherwise, they will flower in more than 10 years.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 06:43:00 AM by Ilya11 »
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lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2018, 06:32:01 PM »
I just looked again at my seedling, it grows very fast already showing true leaves in less than a week.
Of course I keep it at 25C, 90% RH and 800m. I will use some antigibberellins to promote short internodes and hopefully early flowering.

Ilya11

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 06:44:48 AM »
Retardants are effective only when a plant reaches a certain size, usually at the height of 2 meters.
Best regards,
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lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 08:03:28 AM »
I successfully induced flowering in papaya at a young age. So I'll try same with citrus. I am not so sure about the size. from citrus cuttings I had flowers at 15 cm high Also I am still trying to figure out the Japanese methods.

Sylvain

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2018, 08:04:43 AM »
If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters  above the soil level  , they will again flower  next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut. Otherwise, they will flower in more than 10 years.
I didn't know that. Thankyou!

Ilya11

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2018, 10:33:14 AM »
If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters  above the soil level  , they will again flower  next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut. Otherwise, they will flower in more than 10 years.
I didn't know that. Thankyou!
I just sent you this article by email
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Ilya11

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2018, 10:39:50 AM »
I successfully induced flowering in papaya at a young age. So I'll try same with citrus. I am not so sure about the size. from citrus cuttings I had flowers at 15 cm high Also I am still trying to figure out the Japanese methods.
Some varieties of papayas  can be grown from seeds like tomato with fruiting in 10 month ;D
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2018, 12:40:32 PM »
Yes I know, papaya is whole different subject for which I made a lot of experiments.
Thanks, I'll take a look at the article.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 12:43:05 PM by lebmung »

Ilya11

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 02:59:19 PM »
Yes I know, papaya is whole different subject for which I made a lot of experiments.
Thanks, I'll take a look at the article.
Send me your email address by PM
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Heinrich

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2018, 05:29:22 PM »
Don't you want to try to induce flowering?
I dont have the skills, doing it.
If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters  above the soil level  , they will again flower  next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut.
That sounds incredible. Imagine, if you cut every year. What you will get in 20 years?


lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2018, 06:04:27 PM »
I dont have the skills, doing it.

You said you have a big seedling, try to cut all lateral buds and leave one single vertical shoot that you bend over. It's said to be flowering the following year.

Ilya11

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2018, 06:23:52 PM »
If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters  above the soil level  , they will again flower  next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut.
That sounds incredible. Imagine, if you cut every year. What you will get in 20 years?

Something like this:

Best regards,
                       Ilya

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2018, 06:35:17 PM »
I get sterile male flowers on my key lime, this usually happens during the winter.
This is a different methods. What I read it's more like leaving one vertical bud only and when it reaches almost 2 m high, bend it over.
It's known that auxins and antigibberellins trigger early flowering in citrus, but not GA or cytokinins
So I guess bend it over would  lower the auxins levels.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 06:39:17 PM by lebmung »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2018, 06:38:14 PM »
I get sterile male flowers on my key lime, this usually happens during the winter.
This is a different methods. What I read it's more like leaving one vertical bud only and when it reaches almost 2 m high, bend it over.
It's known that auxins and antigibberellins trigger early flowering in citrus, but not GA or cytokinins.
So I guess bend it over would  lower the auxins levels.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2018, 11:14:58 PM »
Here's one of the seedlings of Oroblanco I grew:



It could be a nucellar seed (exact genetic copy of its parent, in which case it would be triploid) or it could be a zygotic diploid (in which case when it eventually fruits the fruits will be full of many seeds, no longer "seedless"). From the research I've read, specifically relating to the variety Oroblanco, I gather that the chances are probably about 50-50 .

« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 11:18:18 PM by SoCal2warm »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2018, 04:17:48 AM »


Your plant, immediately need Mg and more N. Check your water it might be very alkaline.

Millet

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2018, 10:15:07 AM »
I don't see a magnesium problem, but as Lemung wrote, it is badly in need of nitrogen.

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2018, 10:47:03 AM »
If you zoom in, the 4 lower leaves show the beginning of Mg deficiency. This is because of anion/cation exchange, and Mg blocking by Ca n alkaline water.
Also the transparent bottles will bring algae/ moss and root exposure to light. Which in turn will slow down growth.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2018, 12:56:47 AM »
It would be interesting to know the ploidy level.
There's also a small chance the seedling could be tetraploid.
Due to the much lower viability of triploid seed formation (when they are zygotic; this doesn't affect nucellar seed), a substantially greater proportion of the viable sexual gametes are unreduced. An unreduced 3n gamete can then combine with a normal 1n haploid, resulting in a 4n zygote.

There was one study that found a tetraploid in 1 out of 24 Oroblanco seeds.

(The much less common naturally unreduced gametes do not suffer from the triploid viability problems since they never underwent meiosis, that's why their ratio becomes higher among the viable seeds, since there are fewer viable seeds)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 01:03:31 AM by SoCal2warm »

lebmung

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2018, 08:11:53 AM »
How do you test if the seedling is tetraploid?

SoCal2warm

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Re: Oroblanco
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2018, 04:19:35 PM »
How do you test if the seedling is tetraploid?
There's no easy certain test, but generally the leaves of tetraploids tend to be just a little bit bigger.

You might go find the thread "about how to breed seedless citrus varieties" starting at post number 3. Ilya11 posted some good information.

 

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