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Author Topic: Name game  (Read 305 times)

Citradia

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Name game
« on: November 03, 2018, 07:28:56 PM »
Poncirus trifoliata x mandarin = citrandarin
Ichangensis x mandarin = ichandarin
Poncirus trifoliata x citrus aurantium = citradia
Poncirus trifoliata x pomelo = citrumelo
So, ichangensis x citrus aurantium = ? ( “Iradia”, ichantium”, “ichadia”?)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 01:00:45 PM by Citradia »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Name game
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 08:05:35 PM »
Well, citradia isn't such a good name in the first place.


One more to add:
Meyer lemon x poncirus = Citremon

Yuzu is considered an "Ichandarin"

Ilya11

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Re: Name game
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2018, 04:30:06 AM »
If it is constructed like other portmanteau words it could be either ichangardia or ichandia.
Personally I prefer the first one.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 04:35:23 AM by Ilya11 »
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Citradia

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Re: Name game
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2018, 07:59:55 AM »
I looked up “Kabosu “ or citrus sphaerocarpa on Citrus pages site. It’s Ichang/sour orange hybrid growing in China and popular in Japan.

Ilya11

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Re: Name game
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 09:02:28 AM »
I looked up “Kabosu “ or citrus sphaerocarpa on Citrus pages site. It’s Ichang/sour orange hybrid growing in China and popular in Japan.
It was believed to be like this, but turned out to arise from a hybridization of Kunenbo-A ( a sort of Tangor) and Yuzu. Yuzu itself has no direct relationship to C.ichangensis, it is not an ichandarin.
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Florian

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Re: Name game
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2018, 09:12:38 AM »
Poncyrus trifoliata x mandarin = citrandarin
Ichangensis x mandarin = ichandarin
Poncyrus trifoliata x citrus aurantium = citradia
Poncyrus trifoliata x pomelo = citrumelo
So, ichangensis x citrus aurantium = ? ( “Iradia”, ichantium”, “ichadia”?)

Doesn't really belong here and I'm sorry if I missed it but is there a reason you always spell Poncirus Poncyrus?

Citradia

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Re: Name game
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2018, 10:58:16 AM »
Florian, I’m sorry to annoy you with my ignorance. Thanks for correcting my misspelling of the word “Poncirus “.  So, Florian, what is the common name of the hybrid produced from ichangensis and citrus aurantium?

Florian

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Re: Name game
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2018, 01:13:22 PM »
You did by no means annoy me, I was merely curious. I do not know what the correct name for such a cross would be but I would prefer Ichan(g)dia.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Name game
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2018, 08:59:13 PM »
Yuzu itself has no direct relationship to C.ichangensis, it is not an ichandarin.
I would disagree. It's true Yuzu is not a direct cross from C. ichangensis, but it very likely was naturalized (in China) from ichangensis (or a similar ichangensis-like papeda that is no longer extant). Genetic marker studies have consistently found that Yuzu clusters very closely to ichangensis.

The fact that the seeds in Yuzu are mostly nucellar is also indicative (but does not prove) that it arose from hybridization rather than being an original species.
[or I should say more recent hybridization on the evolutionary timescale]

Ilya11

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Re: Name game
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 04:05:24 AM »
Funny that you disagree but  wrote exactly what I stated:
Yuzu is not a direct descendent of C.ichangensis, so it is not an ichandarin😈
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:21:53 AM by Ilya11 »
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Sylvain

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Re: Name game
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2018, 04:59:20 AM »
> it very likely was naturalized (in China) from ichangensis (or a similar ichangensis-like papeda that is no longer extant).
 ??? ::)

>  Genetic marker studies have consistently found that Yuzu clusters very closely to ichangensis.
So what? Yes they both are in the Papeda group!
If your neighbour has the same color of hair, eyes and skin does that proves that he is your father? Or your brother with a no longer existant common father?

I am tired.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Name game
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2018, 10:25:56 PM »
So what? Yes they both are in the Papeda group!
It's possible Yuzu could be its own species, with close relation to Ichang papeda, but there are several things that point in the other direction.

If they are so closely related to each other, like the DNA marker analysis seems to infer, what are the chances that the two would develop to be so different, with Yuzu taking a strong resemblance to mandarin? It is believed hybridization is the more likely possibility. It could even have its origins in an ambiguous zone between "natural species" and "artificial" hybridization. I don't think anyone is really 100 percent certain.

In terms of genetic marker studies, Yuzu usually groups closely to Ichangensis, but look at this study, they have Yuzu grouped in the mandarin group instead of Lemon/Lime/Ichangensis:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166969 (Fig 2, but you can also see Fig 1)
(however, in all fairness, since a few different varieties in that mandarin cluster, like Kabosu and Sudachi, also have descent from Yuzu, it could have thrown off the matching algorithm and made Yuzu wrongly cluster with mandarins)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 11:17:15 PM by SoCal2warm »

Ilya11

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Re: Name game
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 04:18:21 AM »

In terms of genetic marker studies, Yuzu usually groups closely to Ichangensis, but look at this study, they have Yuzu grouped in the mandarin group instead of Lemon/Lime/Ichangensis:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166969 (Fig 2, but you can also see Fig 1)
(however, in all fairness, since a few different varieties in that mandarin cluster, like Kabosu and Sudachi, also have descent from Yuzu, it could have thrown off the matching algorithm and made Yuzu wrongly cluster with mandarins)
This is a latest study made by respected Japanese biologists on the genomic characteristics of  traditional Japanese citruses
I wonder if you have enough qualification to challenge these results.
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Sylvain

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Re: Name game
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2018, 06:36:21 AM »
I looked up “Kabosu “ or citrus sphaerocarpa on Citrus pages site. It’s Ichang/sour orange hybrid growing in China and popular in Japan.
It was believed to be like this, but turned out to arise from a hybridization of Kunenbo-A ( a sort of Tangor) and Yuzu. Yuzu itself has no direct relationship to C.ichangensis, it is not an ichandarin.
I know all of that and I shall change it as soon I have the time, probably this winter.

 

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